1976 2.0 on carburetors?, Good bye Fuel injection? Options

[Mr.Vman]

!976 2.0 barn find, been sitting for yearsn no rust, good condtion. Going through brakes and chassis rubber, struts, shocks make a nice driver. Have not driven the car yet, has fuel injection, idle varies, vacuum leak? What is going on with no carburetors on a stock 2.0? Because of the camshaft timing carburetors do poorly? Is this true or a tale? Seems carburetors would be simple. Is this a myth of no carburetors on a 2.0? Thanks for the time and information. Steve V.

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

the 914 engine is built for fuel injection. Read my dissertation in the tech tips 700 about the evils of cave man fuel injection, CARBs. Really really bad

!976 2.0 barn find, been sitting for yearsn no rust, good condtion. Going through brakes and chassis rubber, struts, shocks make a nice driver. Have not driven the car yet, has fuel injection, idle varies, vacuum leak? What is going on with no carburetors on a stock 2.0? Because of the camshaft timing carburetors do poorly? Is this true or a tale? Seems carburetors would be simple. Is this a myth of no carburetors on a 2.0? Thanks for the time and information. Steve V.

[technicalninja]

They were FI from the start.

Rare to see an original one still running on it.

Lots of people cannot repair the FI and the most common reason for carburetors was "lack of diagnostic abilities" by the person doing the repairs.

This is an excellent article about updating the original FI to more modern equipment.

https://tgadrivel.blogspot.com/2020/03/on-m...914-part-1.html

This site has more D-Jet Gurus than any other source you can find.

One of the members makes complete wiring harnesses for it, super nice ones. (old harnesses can be crappy)

You will find LOTS of help here for any directions you want to go.

I like the modern stuff but if the car was 100% stock and nice fixing the original FI stuff is the way I would go.

The original FI does not work well with large camshaft durations. This explains many of the carbureted hot rods you see.

The modern digital FI CAN support extreme mods and really should be considered before you spend money on a set of IDFs.

The carbs are simple but changes require hard parts.

The modern FI is altered via a laptop...

[emerygt350]

When I bought mine it had DAPO fixes on the FI. Took me a few months to troubleshoot it and a couple years to tune it up to where it is now. If you have functional FI I would keep it and fix it yourself. You remove it on a 76 and whole markers of potential buyers will disappear. Not saying that you are going to flip it, but it is something to keep in mind.

[930cabman]

The European versions had carbs, but all the 914's in the US had Bosch FI. It is a great system if you can get it and keep it working well.

[914werke]

They were FI from the start.

Rare to see an original one still running on it.

Sorry that is inaccurate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[SirAndy]

The European versions had carbs

Nope, only the Euro 1.8L came with carbs.
http://www.914world.com/specs/engnumbs.php

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Jack Standz]

Well, I don't know where everyone is getting all this bad information from.

All the 2.0 liter 6 cylinder 914s had carbs from the factory (and there were thousands of them made).

If you happen to have one of those old 2 liter 6 cylinder 914s with those ugly OEM carburetors, please PM me, maybe we can make a trade for a better fuel injected 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes, modern FI is a good thing, but 914s did not have what we have available today (albeit with some hard work and expense). If you know how to tune them and operate within their limitations, carbs work just fine. They are a lot less expensive too, especially if you're not hung up on a name brand.

[technicalninja]

They were FI from the start.

Rare to see an original one still running on it.

Sorry that is inaccurate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I stand corrected, there are many still running the original FI. A common trend now-a-days is to reinstall the original FI and take the car back to stock.
One of the more common carb conversions is a center mounted progressive 2BBL.
Those are not real good!

you can still buy the kit new on Pelican.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/SCAT...amp;ByPassCat=Y

WHAT IS "hens' teeth" rare is a barn find, "sitting for years", even starting on an original non-gone through FI.

Car that's been loved and well maintained, HELL YES, it's possible.
Not something that's been sitting for any length of time. Just the fuel itself is probably gone by 18 months.

My 75 1.8L sat 33 years. The first guys who woke it up didn't even try to make the FI work. They just stuck a brand-new progressive on it...

In my book the ONLY thing that progressive is useful for is an "initial engine and cam break in carburetor" used for the first hour of operation.

Progressives almost always work, just not very well from a performance viewpoint.

Well, I don't know where everyone is getting all this bad information from.

All the 2.0 liter 6 cylinder 914s had carbs from the factory (and there were thousands of them made).

If you happen to have one of those old 2 liter 6 cylinder 914s with those ugly OEM carburetors, please PM me, maybe we can make a trade for a better fuel injected 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes, modern FI is a good thing, but 914s did not have what we have available today (albeit with some hard work and expense). If you know how to tune them and operate within their limitations, carbs work just fine. They are a lot less expensive too, especially if you're not hung up on a name brand.

Jack, he did post 76...
I know, there was one 76 914-6 but I'd bet this is not that car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Jack is right about the very affordable IDF style clones available. You can purchase WHOLE carbs for what a real Weber rebuild kit (with throttle shafts) cost.

Wouldn't surprise me to be able to create a kit, carbs, manifolds, linkage, air filters, fuel pump, gaskets, the entire puppy for under $500.
These would be Chinese in manufacture.

Personally, I'd go through those top to bottom BEFORE I ran them on an engine.
I'd bet Jack would too!
Real Webers, Dellortos, I'd use out of the box...

[Superhawk996]

!976 2.0 barn find, been sitting for yearsn no rust, good condtion. Going through brakes and chassis rubber, struts, shocks make a nice driver. Have not driven the car yet, has fuel injection, idle varies, vacuum leak? What is going on with no carburetors on a stock 2.0? Because of the camshaft timing carburetors do poorly? Is this true or a tale? Seems carburetors would be simple. Is this a myth of no carburetors on a 2.0? Thanks for the time and information. Steve V.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Poor dude is 6 posts in and already the thread has gone sideways (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

“What is going on with no carburetors on a stock 2.0? Because of the camshaft timing carburetors do poorly?”.

As noted the 2.0L four cylinder cars are fuel injected. As noted, due to the mild cam used with the OEM fuel injection the use of carbs with that cam leaves a bit to be desired when used with carbs. Will it run? Of course but it will run a lot better with a cam better suited to carbs. The problem of course is that the cam swap involves tearing the engine down and splitting the case. It also requires new lifters for the new cam. Not rocket science but also not for the faint of heart, non-wrenching types.

Per suggestion by others, it’s worth keeping the stock Fuel Injection if at all possible.

Good luck with the project (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Jack Standz]

Well, I don't know where everyone is getting all this bad information from.

All the 2.0 liter 6 cylinder 914s had carbs from the factory (and there were thousands of them made).

If you happen to have one of those old 2 liter 6 cylinder 914s with those ugly OEM carburetors, please PM me, maybe we can make a trade for a better fuel injected 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes, modern FI is a good thing, but 914s did not have what we have available today (albeit with some hard work and expense). If you know how to tune them and operate within their limitations, carbs work just fine. They are a lot less expensive too, especially if you're not hung up on a name brand.

Jack, he did post 76...
I know, there was one 76 914-6 but I'd bet this is not that car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Jack is right about the very affordable IDF style clones available. You can purchase WHOLE carbs for what a real Weber rebuild kit (with throttle shafts) cost.

Wouldn't surprise me to be able to create a kit, carbs, manifolds, linkage, air filters, fuel pump, gaskets, the entire puppy for under $500.
These would be Chinese in manufacture.

Personally, I'd go through those top to bottom BEFORE I ran them on an engine.
I'd bet Jack would too!
Real Webers, Dellortos, I'd use out of the box...

The OP said it was a "!976" 914. Wasn't clear what that meant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My offer still standz. If you have one of those 914s that came from the factory with the awful OEM carbs on a 2 liter original six cylinder motor, please contact me about a possible trade for a fuel injected 914. No need to suffer with carbs any longer.

@Mr.Vman

If you have an original fuel injection system on your 914-4, you might be happier fixing it. Putting carbs on a 914 with an original FI camshaft isn't optimal. However, many 914 owners have run carbs on a FI 914 motor (ran one ourselves that was put on by the previous owner for 10+ years).

[porschetub]

The European versions had carbs

Nope, only the Euro 1.8L came with carbs.
http://www.914world.com/specs/engnumbs.php

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Saw a 1.8 that was imported from europe with a bunch of other parts ,motor was complete and original ,carbs ,manifolds, air cleaner and linkages all different to a VW bus setup , carbs were Solex 40 PDSIT sguare body as shown in the Haynes 914 manual .
No mention of Webers that I could find ,cheers.

[rfinegan]

Carbs are a GREAT solution when you need more than stock can handle for fuel management with out the big cost of universal modern FI.

[914werke]

They are a lot less expensive too

again inaccurate info. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[technicalninja]

To the OP (who has not re-posted!)

Whatever you do hit that link I provided in the 3rd post.

That is a multi-page/link laydown on how to do modern FI cheaply. he did a good job!

The first article is the best. What it starts with is a functional D-Jet that the owner is having pretty normal 50-year-old D-jet issues with and his thought process about repairing it or replacing it. he explains how each of the systems work in layman's terms.

The first "article" should be REQUIRED reading before spending any money.

Carbs can work; you can find inexpensive. I found a complete kit on E-bay (no fuel pump) for 470 shipped. As I can't recommend it, I didn't post the link.

I'm not sure why 914werke is so negative.

We're a bunch of old car guys and we can be cantankerous.

And WOW, the forum has been glitchy over the last couple of days.

Both emerygt350 and 914werke got caught in black holes...

[GregAmy]

This is an excellent article about updating the original FI to more modern equipment.

Thank you for the kind words. It was certainly an odyssey getting there...

I own and drive both examples: a 2056cc mild-cammed street car that I converted to the Microsquirt, and a 2056cc race-cammed race car that's running on Dellortos. If I were starting with a D-Jet car that I was turning into a race car, or a D-Jet street car that I was going to mod for light sport use, I'd go the Microsquirt route again. Warm-up and driveability is much better than the Dells and it's tunable on-the-fly.

I also noted that my MAP was always around 95% or more, even at full-throttle and high RPM (I'll run this one to 6500). That indicates to me that the D-Jet induction is not really that much of an airflow restriction...maybe with a bigger cam but not with this one.

For a full-up race car with bigger cams and no concerns about driveability, warm-up, throttle transition and such, then dual carbs are fine. But it won't be as nice a car to drive around daily (it'll certainly sound better though).

I had an ITB setup that I was going to test on the car, a pair of downdraft ITBs that mimic'd Webers on Weber manifolds. It would have been an easy transition, I think, to mount them on the car. But in the end I talked myself out of that and shipped the parts to Carlos to slap onto his build, which is a tad more radical than mime. He'll be doing the same general idea with Microsquirt so I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out.

In the end, if you know how to tune carbs and you have the full gamut of jets/tubes/ etc then carbs are easy...but I suggest plugging in a laptop and retuning based on logged AFR/TPS/MAP maps is a lot easier... - GA