Another help me get this engine started! Thread Options

[Literati914]

1.7 that was supposedly rebuilt just before I purchased the project approx 7 year ago. Never started before. D-jet. Electronic unit replacing the orig. points. Engine currently installed in the engine bay. I primed the oil system the other day and now the idiot light will go out after a couple seconds of cranking.

About the 3rd time or so of trying to start the engine.. it seemed to have lit, it only lasted about 2 seconds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) but it felt good, like it wouldn’t take long. Unfortunately it’s not done much but turn over strong since then. Sometimes it’ll do a little shuffle like it’s gonna start, but no.

I checked the plugs and they have spark, they seemed slightly damp at the electrodes, I also pulled the little small extra bolt on the fuel rail at the driver’s side to see if fuel was making it to the injectors and yes it is apparently.

This 1.7 has a fan with 2 markings… a “0” and an “|” …. Haynes says it’s supposed to have 3 markings but mine does not. If I insert a screwdriver into #1 cylinder and manually bring the fan around via a wrench on the alternator bolt (pulling it towards me from the driver’s side).. I come to the “|” first, before the piston is completely at the top. So I’m speculating that “|” is 5degrees btdc . And this is the mark I’m using to set my distributor. Does that sound right?

[emerygt350]

I think it looks ballpark, but with that new electronic points thing, hard to know. Starter fluid?

And disconnect that retard and advance until you get it going.

[Dave_Darling]

Plug wires in the right places? It's easy to get them mixed up...

Do you have a spark? Supposedly leaving the key on for too long can burn out the electronic points gizmo.

--DD

[Literati914]

Yes, I checked spark and do have it at the plugs.. the plugs gapped to .028 (spark doesn't seem super strong to my untrained eye, but it's there for sure)

I'm seeing from some research that the mark that I came to first (when turning the fan towards me) and where I have timing set now, is not the 5 degree mark, it's actually the 27o mark, as it sits about 3.5 fins away from the "0".

So, just to verify, do I have this process right as follows -

1) clock the fan to "0" at the notch on compression stroke and line up rotor to #1 (engine should start from there)
2) check/set the idle speed on the Djet CPU
3) then w/ timing light, set 5 degree for the idle speed
4) then rev and hold to 3500rpm and set the "l" mark to 27 degree with timing light

[emerygt350]

Yes, I checked spark and do have it at the plugs.. the plugs gapped to .028 (spark doesn't seem super strong to my untrained eye, but it's there for sure)

I'm seeing from some research that the mark that I came to first (when turning the fan towards me) and where I have timing set now, is not the 5 degree mark, it's actually the 27o mark, as it sits about 3.5 fins away from the "0".

So, just to verify, do I have this process right as follows -

1) clock the fan to "0" at the notch on compression stroke and line up rotor to #1 (engine should start from there)
2) check/set the idle speed on the Djet CPU
3) then w/ timing light, set 5 degree for the idle speed
4) then rev and hold to 3500rpm and set the "l" mark to 27 degree with timing light

First off, what year of 1.7?

Yes, kind of. There is no idle speed set on the CPU. That dial is for idle mixture (if you have the dial). If you have it, set it to the melted notch, normally around 9 oclock.

And when it doesn't start after step one, try some starter fluid. That will tell us if there is a fuel delivery problem (or possibly a really weak spark but I doubt that is it). Your trigger points are hooked up yes? Those are the wires coming out of the side of the distributor body.


and now that I look at it... where is your vacuum retard line headed? Ported vacuum on the TB or manifold vacuum on the TB. It needs to be on manifold vacuum (and as I said, you need to disconnect both the retard and the advance, if you have it, and plug the throttle body ports before you do any of the timing above.

[Literati914]

This 1.7 is original engine for my '72 (oil bath set up, replaced with a paper filter). There are two vacuum lines on off the canister.. so, advance and retard I guess. I will need to verify where each is going on the TB.

[Spoke]

Does it start with starting fluid?

If the contacts in the dizzy are not working the injectors will not fire.

[930cabman]

Are both valves closed (on the firing stroke). Piston #1 being at the top with the distr pointing at #1 does not ensure you are on the firing position

[emerygt350]

Are both valves closed (on the firing stroke). Piston #1 being at the top with the distr pointing at #1 does not ensure you are on the firing position

Yeah, but it's a 50/50 shot...

[Literati914]

Does it start with starting fluid?

If the contacts in the dizzy are not working the injectors will not fire.

Doesn't the fact that I'm getting spark indicate that the contacts in the dizzy is working? (Not being a smart@*#, just asking)..

Also - YES I got it to start with starting fluid - doesn't this fact also show I'm at TBC on the compression stroke (again, I ask only to verify my understanding)

[emerygt350]

There are two sets of points. There is the set you are looking at, and then inside there are the trigger points that trigger the injectors.

Good that it started on fluid. Now you know it's either a weak spark (doubt it) or a fuel issue.

Did you verify the trigger points are hooked up?

[Literati914]

..and now that I look at it... where is your vacuum retard line headed? Ported vacuum on the TB or manifold vacuum on the TB. It needs to be on manifold vacuum ..

Hey Emory can you explain what you meant with the above statement? My distributor has two vacuum ports .. the one towards the front of the car (back side of the canister) is connected to the port on the front side of the TB. The vacuum line at the rear of the TB is going to the canister port that faces the back of the car (front side of the canister). I verified that from a George Hussey video describing/explaining components of a d-jet 1.7.

There are two sets of points. There is the set you are looking at, and then inside there are the trigger points that trigger the injectors.

Good that it started on fluid. Now you know it's either a weak spark (doubt it) or a fuel issue.

Did you verify the trigger points are hooked up?

My ignition is an electronic unit, original points were replaced by the previous owner. The D-jet wiring plug is engaged at the side of the distributor. Is it firing the injectors? , I'm not sure.. Can I maybe pull the electrical input at the injector(s) and probe it with an electrical test light while cranking to see if the light flashes?

[technicalninja]

To check injector pulse I normally use a "noid" light like this kit.

https://www.harborfreight.com/11-piece-noid...ASABEgKEzfD_BwE

Most injectors get 12v power and vary the ground to pulse the injector.

You MIGHT be able to see intermittent ground with a DVOM but it would be a bitch.

The noid lights are stupid simple. Plug the puppy in and watch for flashing light...

[emerygt350]

..and now that I look at it... where is your vacuum retard line headed? Ported vacuum on the TB or manifold vacuum on the TB. It needs to be on manifold vacuum ..

Hey Emory can you explain what you meant with the above statement? My distributor has two vacuum ports .. the one towards the front of the car (back side of the canister) is connected to the port on the front side of the TB. The vacuum line at the rear of the TB is going to the canister port that faces the back of the car (front side of the canister). I verified that from a George Hussey video describing/explaining components of a d-jet 1.7.

There are two sets of points. There is the set you are looking at, and then inside there are the trigger points that trigger the injectors.

Good that it started on fluid. Now you know it's either a weak spark (doubt it) or a fuel issue.

Did you verify the trigger points are hooked up?

My ignition is an electronic unit, original points were replaced by the previous owner. The D-jet wiring plug is engaged at the side of the distributor. Is it firing the injectors? , I'm not sure.. Can I maybe pull the electrical input at the injector(s) and probe it with an electrical test light while cranking to see if the light flashes?

Yes, that would tell you. The trigger points are those wires you are describing and they are no longer available, and they are a wear item, so they do start causing problems. There are a couple of fun ways to determine if all is well in injector land. The noid light as mentioned is easiest. You could just pull an injector and watch but I hate mucking with those gaskets and the poor system for plumbing the injectors. Best to leave them be for as long as possible.

One thing you should know is that it is bank fire. So 2 injectors fire at the same time. There are only two pulses. I think it's 1,3 and 4,2 but somebody will correct me if I am wrong. So if you see a signal at 1 and 2 then you know the trigger points are doing their thing.

If you just want to hear if the injectors are actually doing their job, turn the key to the on position without starting the motor and move the throttle. As the TPS moves it will give the injectors a little extra kick. You will hear it in the engine bay if the injectors are firing. This is separate from the trigger points.

As far as the ports go, I am a 2.0 djet guy. Haven't played with the 1.7 tb
The port that has no vacuum on it when the engine is idling is for advance. The port with vacuum with the engine idling is for retard. But as I said, don't worry about that till you get the engine idling. At this point plug both.

[Spoke]

Doesn't the fact that I'm getting spark indicate that the contacts in the dizzy is working? (Not being a smart@*#, just asking)..

Also - YES I got it to start with starting fluid - doesn't this fact also show I'm at TBC on the compression stroke (again, I ask only to verify my understanding)

The DJET system works off of the trigger points in the distributor. The firing of spark plugs is independent of DJET and done with the standard points/electronic ignition.

That you started it with starting fluid says there's no fuel in it. Check the trigger points in the distributor. The trigger points is what the DJET uses to indicate the engine is turning. This will also start the fuel pump up too.

[Literati914]

.. Check the trigger points in the distributor. The trigger points is what the DJET uses to indicate the engine is turning. This will also start the fuel pump up too.

The fuel pump turns on for the couple of seconds that it's supposed to when the key is turned to on. I know that's separate from the Djet triggering, but just putting that out there.

So, I'd planned to check the electrical plugs for a pulse at the injectors, as discussed - but it sounds like there may be a check to do at the distributor too? Perhaps a trigger points unit that sits under the electronic points unit?

[emerygt350]

You have to pull it to get at them. Best to check it at the injector, and if you are not getting anything there move to the distributor.

[Literati914]

New Development:

Before starting to check the injector triggers I decided to address a fuel line routing issue that had been nagging me, first:

I'd previously routed my return fuel line under the metal stand for the air cleaner.. looking at it, I figured that presented an opportunity for the fuel line to chafe on the legs. So I decided to re-route it to the area behind the stand, where it should be. When I pulled the hose clamp at the hard line for the return line, over on the passenger's side wall in the engine compartment - I noticed that there was no fuel dripping from it, as a matter of fact it was completely dry and didn't even smell of fuel.

So I jump over to the other side of the engine bay, remove the clamp/hose at the input side of the pressure regulator.. that caused a single, quick blast of fuel from the short hose off the fuel rail. THEN I pulled the clamp/hose on the exit side of the regulator and again, it's dry and doesn't look like it's had any fuel through it.

I suppose the D-jet needs the circulating fuel or it wouldn't be part of the system. Is there a way to test the regulator, lubricate and reactivate it? .. is it a common failure and does it sound reasonable that it's keeping my engine from starting?

ps - I don't have a spare to swap it out.

[emerygt350]

I wonder if someone adjusted it poorly? There is a bolt on it that will increase and decrease the fuel pressure. Can you see if fuel is making it past the regulator at the regulator? Those hoses can be really fused to it...

[Literati914]

I wonder if someone adjusted it poorly? There is a bolt on it that will increase and decrease the fuel pressure. Can you see if fuel is making it past the regulator at the regulator? Those hoses can be really fused to it...

Fuel is NOT making it past the FPR.
I actually removed the FPR and added some ATF/Acetone to it's ports... I then unscrewed and completely removed the adjustment bolt, which has a pointed tip at the opposite end (inside the unit). That tip was dry as could be. I added the ATF mixture inside that port too. I tried my best to clean it out, but was never able to get the fluid to move from the input to the output side. I guess I'll try some compressed air next, but I'm doubtful it'll come back.