Will not start after a 13-year hibernation, 1973 2.0 D-Jet Options

[Alden]

Ran well before storing in a dry shed.

Evaluated the fuel system and installed new:
fuel tank
fuel level sending unit
fuel tank screen
fuel filter
Cohline 2240 & Gates Barricade fuel hose
rebuilt Bosch 3 port fuel pump
(4) Standard Motor Products JF67 Injectors

Verified the stainless-steel tunnel and engine fuel lines are clear.

Applied 12 volts directly to the fuel pump to prime system. Fuel is circulating (can hear the gurgling of the return in the tank).

Ignition in the ON position the fuel pump primes (can hear running for 1-2 seconds).
Ignition in the START position fuel pump runs (verified with voltmeter, can't hear running due to engine cranking).

Ignition in the ON position apply throttle can hear fuel injectors click.

Engine will run with starting fluid.

Could it be fuel pressure? Fuel pressure regulator go bad from non-use or E10 fuel?
(E10 fuel destroyed my Cohline 2134 fuel hose and Bosch fuel pump)

Don't know if this could be a factor, sometimes in the START position, nothing, have to return to ON position and retry. Failing ignition switch?

What else should I look for?

Found a video from May 2017, started after sitting for 5 years.  Clip3.mov ( 2.42mb ) Number of downloads: 20
 Clip3.mov ( 2.42mb ) Number of downloads: 20

[davep]

Yes, it could certainly be the ignition switch, they do like to fail. The best solution is to add a heavy solenoid near the starter and use the wire from the ignition switch to activate the solenoid and it will in turn activate the starter. It was a bad idea to put such a heavy load on the ignition switch since it causes them to burn out. Look for Mark Henry's Ford solenoid solution.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=308904

[Dlee6205]

Engine will run with starting fluid.

Could it be fuel pressure? Fuel pressure regulator go bad from non-use or E10 fuel?
(E10 fuel destroyed my Cohline 2134 fuel hose and Bosch fuel pump)

 Clip3.mov ( 2.42mb ) Number of downloads: 20

Check your fuel pressure with a gauge and go from there.

[914outlaw]

“ Ignition in the ON position apply throttle can hear fuel injectors click”

Can you check if each one is working properly? You them click, is it all of them?

[emerygt350]

verify fuel pressure. Try not to mess with anything else for the time being (if in fact it did "ran when parked").

The ignition is designed so you have to turn it off between starts attempts.

[rgalla9146]

Are your supply and return lines reversed ?
The ports on the fuel pump are marked.
Easy mistake to make.

[Olympic 914]

I see you are out in the Philly area.

Maybe someone from the Philly 914 MOB will respond. lots of talented guys out there.

someone may be close enough to come visit and get you going.

[TheCabinetmaker]

I agree with Rgalla. Typical symptoms of reversed supply and return lines. Been there!
The fuel should not be returning to the tank while not running. The system will hold pressure.

[VaccaRabite]

Confirm fuel pressure with a gauge at the fuel pressure regulator.
It is very possible to switch the feed and return line somewhere, and that will keep you from running.

Your pressure regulator is a metal plate that pushes against a spring. Ethanol should not harm it. That said, put a gauge there and you will know for sure. My guess is that your fuel lines got reversed when you changed hoses. Really simple to do - I have done it myself.

Zach

[rick 918-S]

I agree with Rgalla. Typical symptoms of reversed supply and return lines. Been there!
The fuel should not be returning to the tank while not running. The system will hold pressure.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) easy to do.

[Alden]

Verified fuel lines are routed correctly and fuel pressure is 26 psi.

Attached noid light to fuel injection connectors and cranked engine, NO lights.

Failed fuel injection trigger points?

What's the trigger points removal instructions?

[JeffBowlsby]

Please quickly check before doing anything else. Verify that the three pairs of injector ground wires are cleanly and firmly attached to the trispade ground lug at the rear top center of the engine case under the air filter box.

If not grounded, the injectors will not fire.

[Alden]

Please quickly check before doing anything else. Verify that the three pairs of injector ground wires are cleanly and firmly attached to the trispade ground lug at the rear top center of the engine case under the air filter box.

If not grounded, the injectors will not fire.

I did verify the 3 pairs of connections.

Ignition in the ON position and apply throttle I can hear the number 1 and 4 injectors click, give the starter a bump and then can hear number 2 and 3 injectors click.

Doesn't this prove ground connection is good?

[JeffBowlsby]

Those are good signs. The injector grounds seem to be functioning and so are the trigger points, all 4 injectors are clicking. You have fuel pressure as I recall, have you fired the injectors into jars or cans to verify fuel flow?

If it starts with starting fluid you should have spark at each plug.

Fuel, spark, compression.

Pull a vacuum on the MPS to verify it holds vacuum? It will be too rich to even start if it does not hold vacuum. Is your CHT sensor connected?

[Alden]

Those are good signs. The injector grounds seem to be functioning as bd so are the trigger points. You have fuel pressure as I recall, have you fired the injectors into jars or cans to verify fuel flow?

Fuel pressure is 26 psi.

No, I have not fired the injectors into jars.

When I connect a noid light to the injector connectors on the harness and crank the engine, NO light. Doesn't this indicate that the trigger points are NOT sending a signal to the fuel injectors? (same as injectors into jars test?)

When I connect a noid light to the injector connectors on the harness and have the ignition in the ON position and apply throttle, noid light does LIGHT UP. Doesn't this indicate that the throttle position sensor is working properly?

What does "The injector grounds seem to be functioning as bd" mean?

[Alden]

Those are good signs. The injector grounds seem to be functioning and so are the trigger points, all 4 injectors are clicking. You have fuel pressure as I recall, have you fired the injectors into jars or cans to verify fuel flow?

If it starts with starting fluid you should have spark at each plug.

Fuel, spark, compression.

Pull a vacuum on the MPS to verify it holds vacuum? It will be too rich to even start if it does not hold vacuum. Is your CHT sensor connected?

What does "The injector grounds seem to be functioning as bd" mean? Never mind, it didn't display the text correctly, now it does.

It does start with starting fluid.

I've removed the plugs, no sign of fuel in the cylinders.

Tested the CHT (2280 ohms, 50 degree garage temp) and verified connection.

I will have to pull a vacuum on the MPS. The MPS is a rebuilt from Fuel Injection Corp. from 17 years ago.

Also tested spark plug wire resistance, coil wire 1087 ohms, wire 1, 2, 3 2086 ohms or less, wire 4 363,000 ohms. New wires to be installed.

The spark plugs are also being replaced with NGK BR6ES. The plugs I pulled are Bosch Platinum extended tip (not recommended in T4 engines).

The engine ran very well the day I parked it. I got into autocrossing and track days with C5 Corvettes and the 914 sat.

[JeffBowlsby]

The injectors click but it is fuel starved.

Fuel pressure spec is 28.5 psi, so bump it up to that pressure.

New injectors…next step would be to fire them into jars. If they don’t flow, get them cleaned/serviced. Definitely put a hand vacuum pump on the MPS and pull it down to 18 in/hg to verify that it holds steadyvacuum.

[Alden]

The injectors click but it is fuel starved.

Fuel pressure spec is 28.5 psi, so bump it up to that pressure.

New injectors…next step would be to fire them into jars. If they don’t flow, get them cleaned/serviced.

They are new (4) Standard Motor Products JF67 Injectors. If they don't flow they go back to RockAuto.

If the noid light does not flash when cranking the engine how would the injector into the jar test be different?

Test 1 shows that the injectors DO NOT get a signal to flow when the engine is cranking (spinning).

Test 2 shows when ignition is in the ON position and throttle is applied injectors DO get the signal to flow.

Are the fuel injection trigger points involved when performing test 2?

Why is the noid light NOT lighting when cranking the engine but IS lighting when ignition is ON (no cranking) and throttle applied?

[JeffBowlsby]

Not sure I am understanding certain phrases being used that are not clear to me.

To crank the engine, spinning the starter, requires the ignition key to be in the engine start position.

The engine “start” position and the ignition are not on when the key is in the accessory (“on”) position. Is that what you are describing?

The DJet ECU operates the fuel pump only for a couple seconds until ignition occurs, and if the engine does not start the ECU turns off the fuel pump. It’s a safety feature to disable the fuel pump if the ignition is off. As in an accident.

The trigger points spin with the rotation of the distributor, they ride a cam on the dizzy shaft and are always on duty when the engine is spinning. They initiate the fuel injection pulses to each of two injector banks, once each bank is fired, the ECU processes the info from the other sensors, to calculate and control when the injection pulses stop.

All this to say that when the ignition switch is in the start position, with the engine cranking, the noid lights should light up. If only in the accessory position how is the engine crancking? If you are using a remote starter switch to engage the starter, I am not sure if the ECU is including the trigger points to start the injection cycle and fire the injectors.

[Alden]

When the key is turned to the accessory "ON" position (no engine cranking) the fuel pump comes on for 1-2 seconds. I apply the throttle and hear the fuel injectors click. I then unplug the fuel injection harness connectors from the injectors and plug in the noid light and apply the throttle and the niod light lights up.

When the key is turned to the "START" position (engine cranking), fuel pressure rises to 26 psi, engine doesn't attempt to start, just spins. I then unplug the fuel injection harness connectors from the injectors and plug in the noid light, key is turned to the "START" position (engine cranking) and noid light does not light up.