dragging clutch, renegade w/kennedy PP and clutch Options

[Dr. Roger]

she's got a new flywheel, PP, T/O bearing, clutch plate, clutch cable, pedal cluster looks and feels good and is well lubed, rear wheel looks and feels good/lubed, bronze rear shifter bushing and good front busings.

i've driven her about 50 miles and have adjusted the clutch 4 times already. every time tightening the adjuster nuts. now it's getting hard to get into gear... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

this doesn't seem to be right.

is this the notorious clutch tube problem???

is there a way to check for this?

big thanks in advance...

Roger

[neo914-6]

I recall tightening the cable several times. Check that the mounts aren't moving and the arm has movement to release the PP. Mine are solid in the rear. IIRC Brad said it insured crisper shifting.

[elocke]

Same thing happened with my Renegade conversion (see my V8 thread in my signature). I had to keep tightening the adjusting nut every few weeks. I changed the jamb nut but still, it seemed like the cable kept stretching. 15K later I roasted my PP fingers and TO bearing. I haven't put it back together yet but I thoroughly checked the clutch tube and added a reinforcement. I may also have had unwanted motion because I'm missing the clip that secures the cable housing to the tranny bracket. Also there's a bit of slop in the bronze bushings in the pedal cluster, which I may have to look into. I'll post when I get it together and try to abjust.
Ed

[nick mironov]

I have the same problem with my Renegade setup. I have put on about 400 mile so far. Everything is new and rebuilt - just like Roger's. Adjusting the clutch does not seem to make any difference. Previous postings have not resulted in any good ideas or recommendations (other than to rebuild the transmission) I have trouble getting into 1st and 2nd gears (original 2nd and 3rd gears). 1st is the worst. 3rd and 4th don't seem to be a problem. The problem is errratic - happens mostly (but not always) at a standstill, usually goes into gear ok if moving. Rarely grinds, just hard to get into gear. The car/transmission worked well before the conversion and I don't remember having this problem then. It is possible that I did not get the shifter lengthened correctly and I got a little differential rotation into it, but I don't think that is the case. I have not done a detailed inspection of the clutch cable tube, but I think that it is solid. Statically, the clutch seems to disengage at about mid-travel, so I don't think that it is a release problem. Maybe I just need a transmission rebuild..

I contacted Renegade, but did not get any useful feedback.

I will be trouble shooting this problem in the near future. I am hoping that someone already has a solution.

Roger: I would be glad to get together with you to try and solve this problem for the bothnof us.

[rick 918-S]

I had the same problem. Had to keep adjusting the cable. I know it wasn't from too much cable tension as I was running a stock 1.7 PP. By the time I pulled the motor and transaxle I couldn't down shift at all. I adjusted the cable so much I was sure the T.O.B was riding on the P.P. When Brad Mayeur went through My transaxle he said it looked fine. I deduced my pressure plate died. I had 5000 miles on a 6 puck clutch and it was worn to the rivets.

[r_towle]

At one point Andy mentioned bending the clutch fork...bend it away from the rear of the car..to give you more throw...

As far as checking the clutch tube..

Remove the four bolts on the shifter housing...turn it 90 degrees..stick a small mirror in there and loo towards the fron of the car...you can see the clutch tube right next to the shifter housing...follow it forward about 4-5 inches..there is the welded tab, on the side of the tunnel.

It is welded there, and at the rear firewall.

This sounds like using the conversion, the flywheel is not ground to the right depth...

I can see buring out a clutch plate with all the torque, but I cannot see having to adjust it to ride on the PP all the time..

I bet if you measured the depth of the flywheel versus stock, its higher...or closer to the PP.

what is the conversion...stock flywheel, or different, PP is from what?
Measure the stock PP from the mounting face to the face of the PP where it hits the disk
Measure the Stock Flywheel depth from the PP mounting face to the face of the flywheel
Measure the stock disck thickness.

Now do all the same measurements on the Renegade setup.

There must be a difference.
The flywheel is the only place to remove material..



Rich

[rick 918-S]

I had my flywheel made special at a local shop. It's exactly the same from the face of the flywheel to the PP mount surface. I'm not sure about my custom disc. I didn't have a stock disc to check it against. I do now, and I will take that into consideration during reassembly. I'm not too surprised about the 1.7 PP though. I kind of expected it to slip eventually. But the heat must have toasted the spring action. Other than slipping, mine should have worked as stock as all things were equal except torque... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[r_towle]

I didn't have a stock disc to check it against. I do now, and I will take that into consideration during reassembly.

its there somewhere...

Now, you have changed the goemtery for the shift fork...or did you cut off 1/2 inch and replace it with the custom plate to mount the tranny?

I assume the chevy V8 has done the same thing...but they do not cut the tranny down like you did, so the geometry must be way off..

Possibly a longer pivot bolt...the one that the fork pivots on..
And bend the fork a bit..
How about looking for a throw out bearing that is 1/2 inch longer??

Rich

[Dr. Roger]

Fantastic.

So first I guess I'll check the engine/trans mounts for movement and retorque bolts.

then adjust shifter as best I can... aaron told me how to do it once long ago but i never did it... =-) now's the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) i'm scared.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

then look at the cable housing within the center chassis housing check for flexing. check welds.

then look at the clutch fork. check for bending (the wrong way),
check cable mounts secure, wheel bracket and cable end clip intact, and don't screw anything up in the process.

it's so much easier troubleshooting someone elses car.... why is that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Andyrew]

Make sure you have the correct TO bearing. Is it a VW clutch or what?

Shifter is easy. Put the trani in neutral, put the shifter in dead neutral, have a friend hold the rod on the trani in the smack middle (up and down wise, forward and back you dont really have to worry about), IF you dont have a friend, stick a wrench in there so it doesnt go up, and tighten it all down. check your gears, and do it again if necessary..

I can do it in 5 mins myself.... just the way I told you.

Keep adjusting it, but if you have the wrong TO bearing, you'll fry your clutch and TO bearing and you wont get actuation in the clutch.. ie no hold.

I did that. after 500 miles.. put the correct TO bearing, new clutch, and PP, and the clutch is better than the 944s!

GL.

also check to see if your clutch tube is moving.

[Rider914]

Give Kennedy a call - they were a big help when I did my clutch, 3 years ago -

Do you think something is stretching? Put two marks on the housing, full in and out, see if the arm changes.

Organic or metallic? Chevys don't leak oil do they? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Swell?

[Brad Roberts]

Did you use a 914 throw out bearing or the KEP/Renegade supplied bearing?

Did you place any lube on the guide tube that the T.O slides on? I have started replacing these guide tubes. If they are worn.. they will cause all kinds of headaches. I learned this with the 993's.

Is your pivot ball SOLID in the case ?? (the ball that the clutch fork pivots on in the bell housing)

Did you place a small amount of grease on the input shaft splines before you stabbed the tranny??

Is the pilot bearing lubed in the end of the crankshaft?

Do you have the cheap clip that holds the cable to the "wheel" assembly??

Did you replaces the plastic cup on the backside of the pivot fork??

Did you replace the brass bushing that goes into the clutch arm for the clutch cable clevis?

Did you check the welds at the front of the clutch tube? (just in front of the shifter)

Does your shifter "hit" something in the tunnel when you go for 4th or 5th gears??


B