MYTHBUSTERS: Did Gugelot really design the 914? Options

[SirAndy]

"Did Gugelot design the 914 as claimed by some lately and printed in a few so called expert Publications?"


here's what DGVWPB (Das Grosse VW-Porsche Buch) has to say about this topic on page 23 (scan attached):

==========================
There's a lot of talk and Rumors

The History of the Design of the 914 has often been connected to the Designer Hans Gugelot.
The Source for the worldwide spread of this mis-information is, in retrospect, the Porsche "Bible",
Karl Ludvigsens book "Porsche - Geschichte und Technik der Renn- und Sportwagen".

Quote from his Book:
"How did a car have to look like that on one hand had to fit into the VW Model-Line and
at the same time had to have the signature touch of Ferry Porsche.
For marketing reasons the car had to be different from the current Porsche Model-Line.
There was no intention to simply copy an existing design ... to solve this without bias,
it was decided to outsource the design to the company Gugelot."

Inquiries with the Porsche Factory, personal talks with Ferdinand Alexander Porsche, the head
of the Porsche Design Studios at the time as well as talks with employees of the Gugelot Company
did, however, not verify Ludvigsens theory. Gugelot was never commissioned with the Design of
the 914. Furthermore, Porsche did not use the Gugelot-Auto as the base or template of their own Design.

Ferdinand Alexander Porsche:
"Gugelot never did anything to the Car! They had a car that had a few similarities with the 914,
that's all. The most one could do is to point out those similarities, but Gugelot had nothing to do with the Car.
It's always the same, there's a lot of talk and rumors, like when people say that my grandfather once worked for Renault ..."

Some Background:
In the early 60s, Gugelot together with the Bayer-Werke designed a plastic car that was based on a BMW.
Like the 914, this car separated itself from others through it's clear-cut lines. The car pictured in
Ludvigsens "Bible" and wrongly labeled the "Gugelot-Auto" was in fact a one-off prototype that never
made production. In addition, quite a few other Car designs of that area show similarities to the
Gugelot-Car and the 914, like the pictured Fiat 2300 with a Chassis Design by Pinifarina.

The Myth of Gugelots involvement in the Design of the 914 is especially wide-spread in the American
Literature. David Coleman for example claims that Gugelots "stark" design was influenced by Braun's
Toasters of the same Era ..."
==========================


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Andy

PS: click on the thumb below for a full size version of the scan ...

[jd74914]

Wow. . . Nice find.

Thanks for ze translation

[Allan]

Vat vas he sinking???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[lapuwali]

I can't quite read the caption on the lower photo. Does that say FIAT 2800 for Pininfarina?

[SirAndy]

I can't quite read the caption on the lower photo. Does that say FIAT 2800 for Pininfarina?

did 'ya click on the picture?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Andy

[dlo914]

Vat vas he sinking???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Allan's little quote reminded me of this German Coast Guard on Google Videos. LOL "Vat ah yoou sinking z-bout?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Sorry for the Hi-Jack...back to your normal thread broadcast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I absolutely LOVE stuff like this...

pete

[grasshopper]

dude! I know a porsche guy named david coleman. I got some weber parts from him. All I will say is that he is sitting on a VERY LARGE parts stash. hundreds of engines, and some VERY VERY VERY Rare cars...

[ejm]

In addition, quite a few other Car designs of that area show similarities to the Gugelot-Car and the 914

I always thought the Mustang protype was very 914ish looking

[jimtab]

I think that the fiat shares a lot of it's lines with the bmw 2800cs-3.0cs series....but swoopier somehow...Italian stuff I guess....

[neo914-6]

Braun record player by Gugelot, see the resemblance? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

There were several designers who produced their concepts of the 914, who's to know what really happened after the non-disclosures were signed...

[SirAndy]

There were several designers who produced their concepts of the 914, who's to know what really happened after the non-disclosures were signed...

and you would know that how? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

as stated in the other thread, also from the DGVWPB, there were 5 designs that made it to the finals, all 5 were done inhouse by the Porsche Design Studios.

i have not seen a single schred of credible information that suggests otherwise.

no doubt, there were many design-studies and prototypes that were *based* on the 914, even as early as 1969, but as far as i know, all of those were after the car had already started production.


from DGVWPB ...

--------------------------
"the first sketches were done in 1964 at the porsche design-studios. five different sketches were chosen for the final design choice in early 1966. all 5 sketches were turned into 1:5 size clay models. the (unanimous) vote went to a model designed by Heinrich Klie, then head of the porsche design-studios, who also designed the the first porsche formular 1 racecar and the carrera 6."
--------------------------

attached are 3 pics of klie's clay model that won the contest ... (click on pic for full size version)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1146286389.jpg)

[SirAndy]

:DRUMROLL:

meet the father of the 914, Heinrich Klie, Head of Porsche Design Studios and creator of the 914-Design ...

here's to you Heinrich! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[neo914-6]

Still trying to get that "true" Porsche connection, huh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Where are the other four designs?

If the Gugelot's BMW proposal was done prior or part of the inhouse competition, I see features heavily predicating or "infuencing" the production design. For instance, the greenhouse shape, the signal light "pods", and the door lines. Hats off to whomever changed the front to mid engine it really helped the proportions. Of course this writer may not have done his homework as you're suggesting.

I really don't care about the whom, but the styling progression interests me...

[Andyrew]

Is it possible to find these prototypes? er.. the sketches at least?

Very interesting stuff..

Andrew

[smontanaro]

I always thought the Mustang protype was very 914ish looking

Though not very Mustangish looking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Skip

[olav]

Thanks Andy, this is cool.

Someone has to make a t-shirt of Klie as the 914 designer. That would be nifty.

[SirAndy]

Still trying to get that "true" Porsche connection, huh?

not really. i would be just as happy if gugelot or bois or pinifarina had designed the 914. no need for a "porsche" connection to like the 914.

BUT, i am *very* interested in the factual history, and it seems Michael von Klodt has done his homework.

i think that the fact that neither Ferdinand Alexander Porsche nor any of the former employees of Gugelot, nor anyone else who was actually involved in the process, can remember Gugelot having anything to do with the 914 design, well, that is fact enough for me ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

btw, your picture above is from Karl Ludvigsens book, which was wrongly labeled the "Gugelot-Auto" in the book.
if you look at the scan of the page from DGVWPB, in the top righthand corner is a picture of the real Gugelot Auto, which was actually produced and driven.

if you're really interested in the "styling progression" you *should* pay attention to the actual facts at hand and not just pick pieces that you would have liked to have played a role ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

[davep]

Andy is quite correct, one needs to research history and accept the truthes you discover. There is a lot of crap out there that was just wishful thinking.
Jeff and I have come across some very interesting things about the LE production that has destroyed previously accepted assumptions.

[thomasotten]

Perhaps we will get a deathbed confession from Butzi: I am the 914's fasher!" (fasher, meaning "father", as in GoldMember movie)