Carbon Monoxide in the Car, i think i'm dizzy Options

[nebreitling]

my girlfriend says she gets a headache after we drive the teener. i haven't noticed it before, but yesterday i felt a bit 'ill' after an hour drive -- even with the top off. the heater blower fan has always stayed off. (welcome to cali)

about 6 months ago i put some used late-model HE's on the car. they appeared very sound, with no apparent leaks on the inner exhaust tubes. i don't think i have an exhaust leak, but i'll be sure to double check everything. what are other sources of carbon monoxide? would a torn up heating air hose let in gas from the engine compartment? even with no blowers on?

any thoughts appreciatted. thanks, nathan

p.s. yeah, i know the late HE's suck. saving for header.

[Joe Bob]

You always use a home CO detector in the cab.....if it buzzes you have a problem.....good to have in the home when you are thru using it. Not exactly a waste of money.

[Mark Henry]

Check it out for sure!

But it may be leaking oil in/on the HE's.

[Jeroen]

That's scarry shit!
What ever it is, trace it and take care of it right away

Braincells and CO don't mix too well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

cheers,

Jeroen

[nebreitling]

that's a good idea about the CO monitor. might invest in that. it beats the puke test by a long shot.

i still don't understand how it's getting in. i have a mind to just block off the heater ventilation tubes. it seems like that would be the only way that anything could get into the cabin?

[redshift]

If the car is running rich, and you sit in traffic a lil, it can make you sick.

You think it's coming back around on you?


M

[nebreitling]

If the car is running rich, and you sit in traffic a lil, it can make you sick.

You think it's coming back around on you?

maybe, but i think that effect would be negligible. my current theory is that it's crankcase fumes getting into a cracked heater hose in the engine compartment... but what the hell do i know, i'm only working with half my brain cells now!

[efrenv]

It could be the two (2) air dampers underneath the car, connected to the heat exchangers, and controlling direction of heated air to the console air vents. If I understand it correctly, if the air dampers are closed, air coming from the engine compartment (fed by the engine fan) is "bypassed" or just discharged underneath the car. When you turn on the auxiliary heater fan or even if you just lift the red lever which is inside the car, the air dampers will open and direct the heated air into the console air vents. If the air dampers do not seal completely, then air from the engine compartment pumped by the engine fan will be fed to the console air vents. If the hose from the oil fill location (going to the air cleaner) is leaking, then air from "inside the engine" will go to the engine compartment space, which will be drawn in by the engine fan, which will leak through the air dampers, which will end up in your console air vents. This would be noxious and give you a headache. Hope this makes sense.

[nebreitling]

that makes great sense. thanks.

[Targa]

I also have a 75' 2.0 and it used to do the same thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) Very bad smell that comes out of a 30 year old exhaust system. My solution was to ditch the stock mufflers along with ALL the smog equip.(why not, besides it just became smog exempt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) and use a Monza exhaust. Now my heat exchangers are not in the best condition and prior to having my pushrod tube seals replaced (last week) there was oil leaking on them. But I swear that the problem was the EGR pipe that connects from the exhaust to the fire wall into the engine compartment. Once I tore that crap out from under the car and in the engine compartment the smell vanished. Some of my friends also noticed the change in having fresh air in the cabin. The other night I took out the 914 so it could stretch its wings. I put the heat on full blast and smelled only clean air and my heat exchangers are still filthy. Hope this helps.

Varik

[SirAndy]

as said above, the hose (or better the lack of) inside the enigne compartment shouldn't make any difference as there will be no exhaust gases in your engine comp.

it's either your "new" HEs or the short hose between the HEs and the body near the longs.

make sure those short hoses fit tight and aren't broken.
if that's not the issue, suspect the HEs ...

get a set of SSI stainless steel ones, much more (and faster) heat and no more rusting anymore.

Andy

[nebreitling]

Andy et al, thanks so much for your thoughtful replies. i'll check the short hoses and HE's. EGR system is gone...

[RustyWa]

I sure hope they are not the HE's....since I sold my old ones to Nathan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I don't recall ever having exhaust fume problems with them.

They were in pretty good shape, pretty clean inside and out. At the tail end of the exchangers, where it crimps around the single tube, that part is loose. I always used a large hose clamp to keep it in place. JB weld might have been a better solution.

One thing you could do to test, is disconnect all the tubing to the cabin and see if the fumes go away..that should help narrow it down.

(I didn't need these HEs anymore since I backdated my system.)

Here's a photo of the ends....

[nebreitling]

just a quick update on the CO mess:

i capped the heat ventilation hoses (that run down the longs), and this seems to keep the cab full of ONLY fresh air.

i do suspect the #3/4 heat exchanger of leaking -- it blows significantly more air out than the other one. plus, it makes a sound which i first suspected to be valve clash (and was very worried about), but which i now believe is an exaust leak resonating in the HE.

my plan is to pick up some late model HE stubs, chop them short, and fabricate a new header to go to my late-model bursch. i'm short on money, so i can't really invest in a back-dated system (or tangerine) right now, but i got access to a welder!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) i figure any design i come up w/ is going to be at least as good as the late-model system... i think i'll be omitting that 180 degree bend...

btw, eric: thanks for your consideration, but don't feel in the slightest bad about the HE's! they got me by just fine until recently, and i'll be using them as the template to design a new system... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) cheers, nathan

p.s. eric, you still got an extra pair of late-model stubs?

[McMark]

I got some 1.7 HEs and a hanger I'll let go REAL cheap. I can drop them at HPH on Monday. $20?

[nebreitling]

will they bolt right up to my 2.0?

all i'd be using them for is probably the first 4-10", i.e. just to enough to bolt up to the engine...

[rhodyguy]

the inlet to the muffler is completely dif on the early he's compared to the 75 and later style. to eliminate the 180 bend you would have to turn the stubs backwards and the stub outlet would be too high to mate up to the muffler without some creative bending/welding. if your muffer has the single round inlets as opposed to to the 2 pipe per side style you are screwed if you want to swap and use your muffler. i'm doing the swap on the 75' at this time.

kevin

[DNHunt]

Don't mess with CO. the problem is CO doesn't mix with hemoglobin. It binds to the same receptor as O2 and is not easily displaced. It takes red blood cell outa the game, so,your brain suffers from lack of oxygen.

Everyone knows about acute CO poisoning. It kills you pretty quickly. There is a chronic form too. Hard to figure out cause the person can be really sick and it seems like they are suffering from a whole bunch of things. A friend of mine got it from an oil burner in the house. 2 weeks in the hospital and several years getting all his endurance back. He still can't tolerate organic solvents like formaldehyde and you can watch him wilt if gets near desiel exhaust.

Dave

[Demick]

If you are planning to chop the HE's short and fab your own header - the better way is to remove your old late model heat exchangers - use the first section that attaches to the head - but reinstall them backward. This will give you the connection to the head and route the exhaust straight back. Then you can fab up the connection between those header tubes and the exhaust.

Demick

[McMark]

The early exhaust will bolt up fine. You just need a muffler with the correct exaust flanges. If you've already got a muffler and you wanna sacrifice it you can cut the late flanges off and weld them together. I have a dead Bursch I'll give you. You can cut off the muffler can and replace it with something else. Or if you wanna buy it I have a good Bursch can you can weld onto the header system.