WOW, my "solid" car aint so solid, but now it is solid!, It is off jack stands!!! Options

[wayne1234]

Well, I decided to look into the new car more that I got from a member on here. there was a trunk floor repair that left a little to be desired. I tried using flux cored mig welding and didnt have much luck, so yesterday I got a tank and some gas @ $200 (ouch) and I was doing some survey work on the front trunk. Let me say I was way too excited to get my car and I looked underneath and saw a couple of rust throughts on the passenger side near the rear but the "longs" where I spent most of my 5 minutes looking was solid. and I though no big deal just a couple of pan spots. and under the new battery tray looked solid from the engine compartment. well under the battery tray "hell hole" was described as" not perfect". there is a piece of metal screwed over the bad stuff. making it appear solid. Then the big suprise, there has been por15 used on the motor mount I thought it looked real rough and when i pushed on it with my finger oops a hole. some poking with a screw driver resulted in the hole you see. the I looked further back at the arm that goes to the rear suspension and it is also por15 with a odd look . more poking and you guessed it a hole. I guess some one thinks por15 is structural. NOT,,, Well I dont mind documenting this because I will fix it right. but hopefully my eagerness to finally get my 914 will make someone else take a second look at the car they are looking at. Mine look great in photo's and even pretty good in person. but it had a dark secret. Now the Real question on the motor mount and (trailing arm mount?) guess that's what its called. what should I paint the back of the metal with and what gauge should I use, should I make drain holes so It wont hold water in the future? Im gonna try to do all this welding with the motor in the car. I fear I will never get the car back together if I take out the motor. Thanks for all your input. Wayne

[wayne1234]

here some more pics... And check out the "All metal" slope nose. there are more screws holding it on than welds. and the back of the metal used isn't even primed.. give me a break and check out the round light on the side "shaved" workmanship

[wayne1234]

here is more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[SirAndy]

What year is your car?

The color should have been a clue of what you were getting yourself into.
Lemon Yellow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)

Btw., i wouldn't even think about fixing this with the engine in the car. It's sooooo much easier to work in there with the engine out.

Plus, seeing those pictures, you're gonna find more rust. Trust me, it's there. Look for it ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Andy

[wayne1234]

Its a 74 one year older than me. yep (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) lemon yellow

[wayne1234]

My fear is I wont ever get her back together if I pull the engine, I "recently" took over a year for me to put in a timing belt, water pump , tensioner, and a couple of gaskets in my Audi TT. I just got it going this weekend so I could pull the porsche in the garage because its been so rainy here and it has been under a car cover

[SirAndy]

Its a 74 one year older than me. yep (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) lemon yellow

In that case those are the wrong outer motor mounts anyways.
What you have are mounts for a tailshifter and you should have a sideshifter in that car ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy

[wayne1234]

how can I tell what trans I have

[charliew]

You need to move back and manualy focus your camera. Maybe it needs to be on macro. Those are pretty bad spots. There will be more I'm sure that you haven't found. That will not be a few simple welding jobs in the evening. I'm afraid by the way you are communicating your skills this is way beyond what you can accompolish. Do you have any sheetmetal working tools? There is no way you are going to work in the engine compartment and do a reasonable job with the motor in there.

Tools you will need:
face shield and gloves, fire extinguisher
4 inch electric grinder with grinding wheels and sanding disks and some cup shaped wirewheels
electric shear, or cutoff wheel air tool, tin snips, compressor? I don't use one but maybe a sawzall will help
at least a ballpeen hammer
6r and 11r visegrip clamps, not hf for the clamps, maybe some other tools but not the visegrip clamps
chipping hammer for the flux removal
I would consider these tools bare essentials for a beginner.

Some of the sheetmetal is about 17 ga. the motormount is thicker but you will not be fabbing that you will need another one.

That rust needs to be sand blasted to properly get most of it out. Sand gets everywhere. It will ruin glass. The car really needs to completely be disassembled to do the blasting.

Check it out real close and think about it before you start and decide it's more than you can deal with.

[Dave_Darling]

how can I tell what trans I have

Where does the linkage go into the transmission? Through the end cover, or into the side of the trans case? The former is a tailshifter, the latter a sideshifter.

--DD

[wayne1234]

Thanks for the input, tools are not the problem. I have a 80 gallon compressor, yep it as tall as me (and bigger around) thank god.impacts , about every air tool 3 grinders so I dont have to switch out different blades. at least 3 drills and many wire brushes. plenty of safety gear. yep I have 2 sawsalls. I also have a small snap on air saw that will do fine cutting. a real nice Lincoln 175hd 220 volt welder. just got the gas, I have always used flux cored before. I have cut down & welded steel flatbeds. and made from scratch 3 snow plow mounts. this is just my first time working with "sheet" metal. like anything you have to just do it, to get decent. I was just looking for input as should I go thicker on the metal around the engine mount. I do have a small metal brake. as far as other metal forming tools I have helped a buddy make a fender patch with a leather bag of sand. it took some time.. I am defiantly thinking of pulling the engine. I got in there to cut out most of it and it wasn't too bad. I just know if I pull the engine I will want to go through it even it was just rebuilt within the last 1000 miles. and I would rather do that this winter. I actually want to drive this thing a a fair amount this summer. then this winter completly tear it down and go through it . for now I just want to make solid repairs

[wayne1234]

Well I have been busy here is the good and the bad , I tore off the prevoius owners patch that just covered over the problem. Again not even primed on the back. took out the battery tray. and remover the repair over the bad on the engine shelf. guess what the top side of the long was rusted alot. I cut a rough hole in the rusty top to find the only good news of the night it sides and bottom of the long are all very solid. So at least I have that going for me. I agree it is a pain to be bent over in that odd position , but there seems to be room to do the welding. . but I have replaced the head gaskets and installed Time Serts in a newer Cadillac Northstar without pulling the motor. so I know what tight is believe me. I looked at pelican on their engine drop and it doesn't seem to bad. but it would kill me not to fix the couple of small oill leaks it has and other misc before putting it back in. Who knows I'm gonna sleep on it and decide tommorrow evening what to do

[wayne1234]

by the way looks like side shift linkage on drivers side just behind the cv axle. Please direct me to the correct mount I need. help finding parts is Always Appreciated, I alread got one order from pelican this week anyways.



picture taken from rear of car

[wayne1234]

couple of better pics

[veltror]

Mine was yellow,...........once

[Dave_Darling]

For a side-shift car, your motor mount bar should be a cast piece with some curves to it, and a large hole that the shift linkage passes through. There should be rubber mounts inboard, between the bar and the brackets bolted to the case. The outboard mounts should be solid--pretty much pieces of U channel that fit across the mount pod on the body.

--DD

[mudfoot76]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

If you haven't dropped engine yet and aren't in a huge hurry, I'll be happy to lend a hand. My schedule is completely booked up until May 18, but after that I have more availability. It would be nice to have another teener that can show up to local PCA events!

[VaccaRabite]

If your engine mount is rusted out, you are going to find MANY more problems inside the long. it may well be rusting from the inside out.

Be POSITIVE that the DAPO did not just put a clam shell over the outer long (over the rust). I have seen 2 rust bucket cars with longs that looked great due to a clam shell welded over the rusted out long.

I would not put more money into this car until you know how bad the damage is. You may find yourself well ahead (both time and money) if you just use this car as a parts car and move the good stuff over to a known solid tub.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.
Zach

[wayne1234]

Thanks for the offer mudfoot. i looked at your sig, I just got rid of a 02 Mini Cooper last weekend. I have a Audi TT also So if you have one as well we must be living in a parallel universe. Any ways I hope it be well on my way with the repair by then. but the offer is much appreciated. I sometimes have the lack of motivation virus. I have really inspected poke and prodded the longs. they are very solid. I think the top section became more rusty due to the fact of a piece of metal being welded over the rust before. trapping moisture. if it had been cut out and replaced I dont think it would have even got as far as it did, but a 10" X 2.5"section only on the top. isn't going to scare me into a new tub. nor the hole in the inner fender . it just gonna take time and patience. as far as the motor mount Again I think the por15 over the old rust did more harm than good. Its just metal it can always be welded back. I plan on taking a ton of pictures. tonight I'm going to clean up all my rough cuts and hopefully make templates. then Friday cut some metal from the templates. Then this weekend a close friend is gonna help and he has done a ton of sheet metal rust repair & welding on a totally rotted Chevy truck (cab corners, door sills, & complete floor). so Ill have a more experienced welding eye behind me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[Larouex]

That's a heartbreak and a totally misrepresented car if someone said it was solid. The rust is severe and because of it being in the places it is, the cancer is pretty bad. So like others have said, you need to decide... DO you save it or cut it.