after 2 yrs I was publically called out by Kanna Motorsports, moving out of track car pix thread to keep that one clean Options

[byndbad914]

Here is what they posted regarding an issue I mentioned with their junk 2 yrs ago in the track car pix area.

The following is a copy of a PM sent to this poster....
It aggravates me when a single person posts unwarranted comments.
As I stated in my PM ....let's see some pictures.

After viewing a post that you made, I would like to respond to your accusations of our 935 control arm breaking. A review of our records show no sale of a 935 system shipped to you. If in fact if you did purchase one of our systems, you would have our telephone number which you obviously never used.
Every single 935 system is check on an actual chassis for fitment prior to shipment, so your claim of it not fitting leads me to believe this is classic case of not following directions.
There are over 40 of our 935 systems installed and in use, and not one, to my knowledge has failed due to material or fabrication.
I fail to see any pictures of this supposed failure anywhere on the 914 world site, which leads me to wonder if you in fact did some "backyard" engineering and don't want anyone to see the facts, and just point the finger at us.
I stand behind every item that I make, if there is a problem it would have been corrected if you had put as much effort in picking up a phone as you do slandering people.

Wanted to get a shot at Willow Springs before leaving for Colorado, but the new 935-style lower arms I bought from Kanna Motorsports snapped in two with only 1/3 of a lap down when I went out last month (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) That 30 seconds of track time cost me about a grand and, of course, Kanna won't respond to my email asking them WTF they would like to do about it.

Don't buy Kanna Motorsports stuff PERIOD. A couple other items I got required additional machining as well to make them right btw.

But here it is when I picked it up at the chassis shop.
(I snipped all the pix of the car to save space here)

and here was my reply to them, just so everyone knows exactly what is going on. Additionally, as many of you already know about my car, it was professionally built and is in no way a "backyard" car.

took me awhile to find the thread they were talking about having my post. I will quote my response:

First and foremost this happened 2 yrs ago, so it's been a loooonnnngggg time ago. Secondly, I called a number of times after it happened, left messages and even emailed you jackasses.

Thirdly, and more importantly, you sold me the lower control arm piece only (and some upper strut mounts which also needed to be remachined BTW), but it was a "custom" piece you had made for someone else, then they apparently didn't take it and you offered it to me. It was custom because you had made an adjustable sleeve so that you didn't have to unbolt the arm to adjust camber. That sleeve piece that was made had a 3/4" outside thread and a 5/8" inside thread.. which means there was less than 1/8" of material holding that arm together in tension and I didn't catch that when the car was built. As I entered turn 5 at Willow Springs, on the first lap, maiden voyage of the car that custom piece you had made tensile failed, snapped in half, causing the front tire to be shoved back into my car, destroying a brand new Hoosier, busting my fiberglass rocker bodywork, etc. That was a $1000 day for me between new tire, track fees, round trip gas for 30 seconds of track time, and damage to my car.

Don't you fucking dare fire at me after 2yrs of hearing nothing from you - after waiting to hear from you for quite awhile and hearing nothing I made that post to let others know to stay away. This failure happened in December of 2006! I left no less than five phone message, and fired a couple emails as well. It was not installed improperly or any thing like that. In fact, if I search around my garage I think I still have the failed part and I would have been happy to take a photo to show you but your attitude right out of the hole is BS and I am thru with you. Or you can cut me a check for $1000 and we will call it even.

In addition after thinking about this a bit and stewing even more (trust me, this was the worst track day of my life to date and a reeeeaaaaal sore spot) I should point out the camber/caster upper strut mounts were shit as well. There are four bolts that hold the two pieces together - one of them was drilled far enough off center you couldn't get the fourth bolt in - they did of course and the threads had clearly dug into the aluminum part while they forced it in place. AJ just ended up hacking that part a bit, supporting it with the frame and to this day I just run 3 bolts as everything is now in compression and shear friction.

After AJ cut the arm to reset the length and we removed his shit ass adjuster piece, I haven't had a single issue with the arm. I suspect if you only use their non-sleeved, single adjustable part you may not have any issues, as that is essentially what I have now. I should have known better than to take custom pieces that were refused by a previous customer.

Just understand their level of craftsmanship is faaaarrrrr and away more backyard than anything on my car. At the time I purchased these parts I had more money than time and didn't care to machine them myself when I could just buy them for a good price (I have long since moved on from machining parts when I became a professional engineer). However, I got what I paid for apparently.

Since it has been 2 yrs I may or may not still have that shit piece in my garage and will look around for it and post a pic of that POS so everyone on this forum can see what a POS that part was. Had this prick answered no less than 5 voicemails including one I left driving home after spending 3hrs on the track trying to get this car on the trailer, and a couple emails I also sent, this would have never happened and would not have been public.

There is your Kanna customer service... ship you crap shit, you can leave them a bunch of messages, etc, after it fails immediately, then wait 2 yrs so you might not have the offending part (I have moved twice since including a new state so probably why he can't figure out the order which is almost 3 yrs ago now), come from outta nowhere... again, wait for it.... AFTER 2 YEARS... and accuse you of never having ordered or used their parts, blah blah.

You may have wanted to send me a more polite, inquisitive email before going public jackass - you only dig yourself a deeper hole. I will take some pix of the shit upper pieces and the raw alum showing in the slots where we had to go in and make clearance so the threaded fasteners would actually slide in the slots. I essentially rely on the lower arms for all of my caster and most of my camber adjustments after having to just hard mount your shit pieces.

You have managed to get me boiling about something I have tried to forget for 2 fricken years now.

[byndbad914]

I discussed that earlier in the thread... I didn't disassemble and look at this stuff closely before installing. I basically got the box of stuff, took it to AJ and handed the stuff to him to work with. He mentioned he wasn't so sure about them, but I apathetically assumed everything was fine. Even when I set the alignment I thought it looked spindly but just assumed it would be fine. In the end it wasn't.

Frankly, when it broke and I really looked at the pieces I was shocked how thin it was - the fact that common sense should have prevailed when it was machined I would have seriously never expected to actually receive a part that poorly designed from a company that assured me they had working stuff on the track.

That said, I think I am sorta missing your point?

I am of the belief that if you order a product it should arbitrarily work and be without design risk (I know... a stretch and too ideological but generally speaking) so at that time I didn't go over every piece I was buying at the time with a fine tooth comb (keep in mind I dropped double digit thousands on chassis and parts in an eight month period there). Since this incident tho' I am much more skeptical and to double check items before I arbitrarily use them.

Lastly, I literally finished the car one month before I was relocating to a new state so the crunch was on and I was HAMMERING to get the car together as it took longer than expected (as with all projects) as I wanted to test it before moving thousands of miles away from the chassis builder, so I went with it and clearly tested it.

[PeeGreen 914]

I discussed that earlier in the thread... I didn't disassemble and look at this stuff closely before installing. I basically got the box of stuff, took it to AJ and handed the stuff to him to work with. He mentioned he wasn't so sure about them, but I apathetically assumed everything was fine. Even when I set the alignment I thought it looked spindly but just assumed it would be fine. In the end it wasn't.

Frankly, when it broke and I really looked at the pieces I was shocked how thin it was - the fact that common sense should have prevailed when it was machined I would have seriously never expected to actually receive a part that poorly designed from a company that assured me they had working stuff on the track.

That said, I think I am sorta missing your point?

I am of the belief that if you order a product it should arbitrarily work and be without design risk (I know... a stretch and too ideological but generally speaking) so at that time I didn't go over every piece I was buying at the time with a fine tooth comb (keep in mind I dropped double digit thousands on chassis and parts in an eight month period there). Since this incident tho' I am much more skeptical and to double check items before I arbitrarily use them.

Lastly, I literally finished the car one month before I was relocating to a new state so the crunch was on and I was HAMMERING to get the car together as it took longer than expected (as with all projects) as I wanted to test it before moving thousands of miles away from the chassis builder, so I went with it and clearly tested it.

You are 100% correct in that assumtion. If you buy a part that is designed and sold for what you buy it for the manufacturer is the one on the hook and liable. Since these are race cars we are talking about courts are less simpathetic towards us but still holds the same truth.

[jhadler]

You are 100% correct in that assumtion. If you buy a part that is designed and sold for what you buy it for the manufacturer is the one on the hook and liable. Since these are race cars we are talking about courts are less simpathetic towards us but still holds the same truth.

Not that I think Tim doesn't have a valid point, but I'd be hard pressed to name one non-OEM manufacturer who sells parts for racing applications that offers a warranty or otherwise. Caveat Emptor baby.

The parts Tim got were obviously done with little actual engineering, just some nifty machining. And it's a very good thing that all it cost him was some money and aggravation, and not something far far worse.

Yeah, I agree with what someone else said, I wouldn't trust those parts to hold up my pants... And those camber plates look like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) . And they don't look like they'd hold any kind of stress at all with the back half of it cut away. Anyway, I digress...

When building something that was never produced by the manufacturer (Porsche), it's up to US to ensure that it's structurally sound enough to withstand whatever WE are going to do with it. I suspect that the poodoo double threaded link that Tim got saddled with would probably survive for years on a casually driven street car. But on his machine it folded up like rice paper. Nonetheless, it's our own responsibility to make sure that what we build isn't gonna get us killed. And just buying a part from a reputable building isn't gonna cover that. They don't know you, or what you're installing said part into.

Unless you're paying someone to build you a car from the ground up, you gotta do your own engineering. And if it means second guessing a parts supplier, ask the questions if they come up... Tim got burned, and I'm glad he didn't get hurt because of it. And his lesson is a good one for all of us. If you're building something far above and beyond what Porsche originally intended, think long and hard about how it's going to be effected by whatever you do...

-Josh2

[PeeGreen 914]

Not that I think Tim doesn't have a valid point, but I'd be hard pressed to name one non-OEM manufacturer who sells parts for racing applications that offers a warranty or otherwise. Caveat Emptor baby.

Yes Josh, buyer should beware. However, something such as this is not a part any manufacture of parts would ever want to fail. People have lawsuits for much less than this and if you claim to make a part like this and claim it to be good I am sure a jury would not be kind to the manufacture. In fact, I would even venture to say they are lucky nothing happened to Tim as they could have a legal liability in this case. You have to remember that we live in a society that believes that someone HAS to be at fault when something bad happens.