RANT: Electric Conversions, Not what you think...... Options

[KaptKaos]

There's a fellow selling a motor in the classifieds. Here's the link:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92077

Seems normal enough. I assume, maybe wrongly, that this person is using the car for an electric conversion.

I have no issue with people converting their cars to electric motors. However, I am wondering if it is reasonable to ask or inform the people that are looking to do this to please try to use '76 cars? This is particularly important in California, as the smog checks in California aren't required on Pre-76 cars.

There are two counter arguments that I can think of and they are:

1) '76 cars are fairly rare, and therefore either more expensive and/or harder to find.
2) The point of an electric conversion is to reduce emissions, so using a car that has higher emissions makes more sense.

I am not sure if this is practical/possible/reasonable/feasible, so I figured that I'd ask.

Am I out of line here?

Please note that I mean no ill will to the seller above.

[rick 918-S]

Until battery technology makes some serious strides I think an electric conversion is a waste of time and money. The only batteries worth using are priced higher than the national debt. Lead acid batteries are heavy, short duration, and cause more polution to manufacture and dispose of than all the gas you could burn for the next two years. (the life of the batteries) So IMHO electric is not green and should be taken on as a fun hobby and not a serious life style change.

[r_towle]

Until battery technology makes some serious strides I think an electric conversion is a waste of time and money. The only batteries worth using are priced higher than the national debt. Lead acid batteries are heavy, short duration, and cause more polution to manufacture and dispose of than all the gas you could burn for the next two years. (the life of the batteries) So IMHO electric is not green and should be taken on as a fun hobby and not a serious life style change.

A123Systems.
Check them out. Lithium.
The new pack costs about 10k....but its on its way...
You can buy that now...but I still feel the price is to high.

There are several cool things being done right now.
First and foremost....a 15 minute full charge is the goal, and some companies have built it.. This gets you to a gas station or a recharge station to refuel...that will be cool.
Second..we need to get up to 300 miles per charge...that is also happening..
This part is more about weight and peoples perception about how big and heavy a car really needs to be. This is more social in the US then it is technology.

At this point if we threw all the SUV's out and Pickup trucks that people drive to work...made everyone buy a car that weighs in at 2000lbs or less...then we would be looking at 75 mpg right now with current technology in normal gas powered cars....

For all the people that state "I will never get rid of my SUV/Truck" well, you will keep paying more and more penalties to drive it until it hurts so much in your wallet that you finally move into a fuel efficient car.
We need to make it hurt in this country...its the only way to make change happen.
Look what happened when gas was $4.00 per gallon...


My personal opinion is there will be two emerging systems that will happen and are happening in parallel.
Electric plug in will happen.
High efficiency Diesel will happen.

We need trucks to deliver our goods, so Diesel will get even more money thrown at it over the next ten years.
Electric plug in will be for the rest of us.

To your other point later on in the post...cold weather operation.
Hybrid electric/diesel will be the result.
Diesel works fine in sub zero temps when its properly engineered...so a hybrid will solve the cold issue...

Rich

[rick 918-S]

Until battery technology makes some serious strides I think an electric conversion is a waste of time and money. The only batteries worth using are priced higher than the national debt. Lead acid batteries are heavy, short duration, and cause more polution to manufacture and dispose of than all the gas you could burn for the next two years. (the life of the batteries) So IMHO electric is not green and should be taken on as a fun hobby and not a serious life style change.

A123Systems.
Check them out. Lithium.
The new pack costs about 10k....but its on its way...
You can buy that now...but I still feel the price is to high.

There are several cool things being done right now.
First and foremost....a 15 minute full charge is the goal, and some companies have built it.. This gets you to a gas station or a recharge station to refuel...that will be cool.
Second..we need to get up to 300 miles per charge...that is also happening..
This part is more about weight and peoples perception about how big and heavy a car really needs to be. This is more social in the US then it is technology.

At this point if we threw all the SUV's out and Pickup trucks that people drive to work...made everyone buy a car that weighs in at 2000lbs or less...then we would be looking at 75 mpg right now with current technology in normal gas powered cars....

For all the people that state "I will never get rid of my SUV/Truck" well, you will keep paying more and more penalties to drive it until it hurts so much in your wallet that you finally move into a fuel efficient car.
We need to make it hurt in this country...its the only way to make change happen.
Look what happened when gas was $4.00 per gallon...


My personal opinion is there will be two emerging systems that will happen and are happening in parallel.
Electric plug in will happen.
High efficiency Diesel will happen.

We need trucks to deliver our goods, so Diesel will get even more money thrown at it over the next ten years.
Electric plug in will be for the rest of us.

To your other point later on in the post...cold weather operation.
Hybrid electric/diesel will be the result.
Diesel works fine in sub zero temps when its properly engineered...so a hybrid will solve the cold issue...

Rich

All good points. But lets move into the inner city and small rural communities with limited income and tell them they need to buy a $80,000.00 electric car they can't fit their family in. And if you don't were going to bankrupt you. So much for freedom of choice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Ya I know, that's a little extreme. I'm all for a better way. But there's alot of smoke and mirrors sales going on out there now. The next wave of tecnological advances won't be doled out to Jon Q. Public without a heavy price tag. Sometimes reality is sobering. At least reality as I see it.

[r_towle]

Until battery technology makes some serious strides I think an electric conversion is a waste of time and money. The only batteries worth using are priced higher than the national debt. Lead acid batteries are heavy, short duration, and cause more polution to manufacture and dispose of than all the gas you could burn for the next two years. (the life of the batteries) So IMHO electric is not green and should be taken on as a fun hobby and not a serious life style change.

A123Systems.
Check them out. Lithium.
The new pack costs about 10k....but its on its way...
You can buy that now...but I still feel the price is to high.

There are several cool things being done right now.
First and foremost....a 15 minute full charge is the goal, and some companies have built it.. This gets you to a gas station or a recharge station to refuel...that will be cool.
Second..we need to get up to 300 miles per charge...that is also happening..
This part is more about weight and peoples perception about how big and heavy a car really needs to be. This is more social in the US then it is technology.

At this point if we threw all the SUV's out and Pickup trucks that people drive to work...made everyone buy a car that weighs in at 2000lbs or less...then we would be looking at 75 mpg right now with current technology in normal gas powered cars....

For all the people that state "I will never get rid of my SUV/Truck" well, you will keep paying more and more penalties to drive it until it hurts so much in your wallet that you finally move into a fuel efficient car.
We need to make it hurt in this country...its the only way to make change happen.
Look what happened when gas was $4.00 per gallon...


My personal opinion is there will be two emerging systems that will happen and are happening in parallel.
Electric plug in will happen.
High efficiency Diesel will happen.

We need trucks to deliver our goods, so Diesel will get even more money thrown at it over the next ten years.
Electric plug in will be for the rest of us.

To your other point later on in the post...cold weather operation.
Hybrid electric/diesel will be the result.
Diesel works fine in sub zero temps when its properly engineered...so a hybrid will solve the cold issue...

Rich

All good points. But lets move into the inner city and small rural communities with limited income and tell them they need to buy a $80,000.00 electric car they can't fit their family in. And if you don't were going to bankrupt you. So much for freedom of choice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Ya I know, that's a little extreme. I'm all for a better way. But there's alot of smoke and mirrors sales going on out there now. The next wave of tecnological advances won't be doled out to Jon Q. Public without a heavy price tag. Sometimes reality is sobering. At least reality as I see it.

Couple of replies.
The price point will come down to a competitive price. That will be either with Gov subsidies and or market competition..its just gonna happen.
Only when JohnQ can make a choice dollar for dollar will this work.
At that point, penalties will be appropriate.
Penalties already exist...look at any car built after 1976 in CA....wanna keep it, fix it. Period.
So, same logic will apply. Wanna drive a big Escalade, no problem, we support your freedom to do that. Pay this tax for the priveledge and go on your merry way to the gas station.
Maybe the tax will just be more fuel tax...that would do it.

We need to fix this issue. You may not see it nor do I but please take a look at the sunset pictures in LA....there is a criminal amount of smog there...its harming peoples long term health.
We cant keep growing at the rate we are growing without addressing the need to change our consumptive and pollutant behaviour.

It wont be a federal level thing..it will be state by state. Something YOU can control with your vote.

Rich