Buying Welding Equipment |
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Buying Welding Equipment |
saigon71 |
Jul 19 2009, 07:43 PM
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#1
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,000 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Dillsburg, PA Member No.: 10,428 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I started looking into welding equipment for body/hell hole/jackstand repair of my 914. A friend told me that MIG is the way to go for this. My question is what specifications do I need in a MIG welder to get the job done without a lot of grief? Also, what gage steel should be used for making patches?
Thanks |
jmill |
Jul 20 2009, 07:35 PM
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#2
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Green Hornet Group: Members Posts: 2,449 Joined: 9-May 08 From: Racine, Wisconsin Member No.: 9,038 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Actually I don't agree with that at all. Inexpensive 220V units generally let you weld thicker metal single pass than 110V units, but the lower settings are pretty much (if not idential) on 110V vs. 220V. I have a 220V and a 110v. I agree to disagree with you if you have stepped power settings. Say the 110V has 10 power settings and the 220V has 10 power settings. The 220v power settings will be spaced further apart than the 110v. You have a closer gap on the thinner stuff using the 110v. All bets are off with infinite. Then I agree to agree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
Richard Casto |
Jul 21 2009, 09:56 AM
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#3
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Blue Sky Motorsports, LLC Group: Members Posts: 1,465 Joined: 2-August 05 From: Durham, NC Member No.: 4,523 Region Association: South East States |
Actually I don't agree with that at all. Inexpensive 220V units generally let you weld thicker metal single pass than 110V units, but the lower settings are pretty much (if not idential) on 110V vs. 220V. I have a 220V and a 110v. I agree to disagree with you if you have stepped power settings. Say the 110V has 10 power settings and the 220V has 10 power settings. The 220v power settings will be spaced further apart than the 110v. You have a closer gap on the thinner stuff using the 110v. All bets are off with infinite. Then I agree to agree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not being argumentative, but I have a slightly different perspective… Since we are talking about inexpensive welders, infinite control (other than wire speed) is out of the question. So for example the units you might buy at a Lowes or Home Depot (Lincoln or Miller) would probably have 5 voltage settings (labeled A, B, C, D, E). Both the 110 and 220 units will probably have 5 settings. So yes, the range on the 110 is going to be smaller. So you are technically right about the voltage selection. But I will say that from a practical point of view it doesn’t make a big enough of a difference to matter. Think of it as being a close ratio transmission. It all sounds good and you “think” it’s going to work better for you but your gearing needs to be matched up to a specific engine and track. So you may have a close ratio 5 speed, but you are not on a road course, but rather an autocross. So you are using 2nd gear nearly all of the time and maybe 3rd sometimes. It may turn out that the transmission without the close ratios may actually work better. Or, the lap times are so close that there is not a statistically significant difference. So when welding the thickness of metal that you will find on a 914 body panel, the end result is that you are going to be using one maybe two voltage settings on both the 110 and 220 units. As with the transmission example above, it’s just as likely that the settings on the 220 unit might work better than the 110 unit. With proper technique, there is going to be voltage and wire speed settings on both the 110v and 220v units that is going to work just fine on a 914. In reality, welding technique is going to be a much larger factor than if “setting B on a 110v is better than setting B on a 220v unit”. Of the many threads you see here with people learning to weld, by far the biggest problem that people have is technique (not welding on rust, paint grease, welding speed, distance, angle, etc.) and not issues such as 110v vs. 220v. So, I am not trying to push anyone to a 220V unit. If you are talking about welding on a 914 I would recommend the 110V unit for a number of reasons. My comments are just to not let anything think that a 220V is going to not work, or not produce just as good as results. I would hate for someone to have access to an existing 220V unit (friend, etc.) or find a great deal on a used 220v unit, already have a 220v outlet in their garage and then read this thread and think “Oh, a 220v unit it just going to blow holes through my car” (which is 100% inaccurate), then go out and spend more money on a brand new 110v unit. |
Todd Enlund |
Jul 21 2009, 11:24 AM
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#4
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Resident Photoshop Guru Group: Members Posts: 3,251 Joined: 24-August 07 From: Laurelhurst (Portland), Oregon Member No.: 8,032 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Since we are talking about inexpensive welders, infinite control (other than wire speed) is out of the question. So for example the units you might buy at a Lowes or Home Depot (Lincoln or Miller) would probably have 5 voltage settings (labeled A, B, C, D, E). Both the 110 and 220 units will probably have 5 settings. So yes, the range on the 110 is going to be smaller. So you are technically right about the voltage selection. But I will say that from a practical point of view it doesn’t make a big enough of a difference to matter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Depends on your definition of "inexpensive"... I did a lot of research on 110 units before I decided to spend the money and cry once. I bought a Miller 140AS. The Millermatic 140AS is a 110v unit with infinite wire speed and voltage. It also has "Autoset", you dial in the metal gauge and the unit selects the wire speed and voltage. I paid ~$600 from Indiana Oxygen, shipped. The local Miller dealer wouldn't even come close to that... instead, they tried to talk me down to a Hobart for $525, and stuck to their $799 price on the Miller. I'd have rather bought local, but $200 difference and them not budging was a deal breaker. Another difference is that the Miller has a metal feed roller assembly, the Hobart only has a metal roller, the rest of the assembly is plastic. The Lincoln 140C also has infinite voltage, the 140T does not. The difference between the two is $50-$100 depending on the vendor. The Lincoln 140C is about $20 less than the Miller, but does not have Autoset. |
Richard Casto |
Jul 21 2009, 04:35 PM
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#5
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Blue Sky Motorsports, LLC Group: Members Posts: 1,465 Joined: 2-August 05 From: Durham, NC Member No.: 4,523 Region Association: South East States |
Since we are talking about inexpensive welders, infinite control (other than wire speed) is out of the question. So for example the units you might buy at a Lowes or Home Depot (Lincoln or Miller) would probably have 5 voltage settings (labeled A, B, C, D, E). Both the 110 and 220 units will probably have 5 settings. So yes, the range on the 110 is going to be smaller. So you are technically right about the voltage selection. But I will say that from a practical point of view it doesn’t make a big enough of a difference to matter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Depends on your definition of "inexpensive"... I did a lot of research on 110 units before I decided to spend the money and cry once. I bought a Miller 140AS. The Millermatic 140AS is a 110v unit with infinite wire speed and voltage. It also has "Autoset", you dial in the metal gauge and the unit selects the wire speed and voltage. I paid ~$600 from Indiana Oxygen, shipped. The local Miller dealer wouldn't even come close to that... instead, they tried to talk me down to a Hobart for $525, and stuck to their $799 price on the Miller. I'd have rather bought local, but $200 difference and them not budging was a deal breaker. Another difference is that the Miller has a metal feed roller assembly, the Hobart only has a metal roller, the rest of the assembly is plastic. The Lincoln 140C also has infinite voltage, the 140T does not. The difference between the two is $50-$100 depending on the vendor. The Lincoln 140C is about $20 less than the Miller, but does not have Autoset. The units at the local community college that I learned to weld on were the nice digital infinite control models. Very nice to use and good to learn on. I am not sure I would pay extra for some type of "autoset" feature. I suspect a paper chart that maps wire size/type, metal guage and then gives you voltage and wirespeed would work just as well and save you real $$. But if I had the money and/or planned to do a lot more welding that just my car, I probably would have spent more and went with a nicer unit than what I have today. Next purchase will probably be an inexpensive TIG setup. |
ghuff |
Jul 21 2009, 04:56 PM
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#6
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This is certainly not what I expected down here. Group: Members Posts: 849 Joined: 21-May 09 From: Bodymore Murderland Member No.: 10,389 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Since we are talking about inexpensive welders, infinite control (other than wire speed) is out of the question. So for example the units you might buy at a Lowes or Home Depot (Lincoln or Miller) would probably have 5 voltage settings (labeled A, B, C, D, E). Both the 110 and 220 units will probably have 5 settings. So yes, the range on the 110 is going to be smaller. So you are technically right about the voltage selection. But I will say that from a practical point of view it doesn’t make a big enough of a difference to matter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Depends on your definition of "inexpensive"... I did a lot of research on 110 units before I decided to spend the money and cry once. I bought a Miller 140AS. The Millermatic 140AS is a 110v unit with infinite wire speed and voltage. It also has "Autoset", you dial in the metal gauge and the unit selects the wire speed and voltage. I paid ~$600 from Indiana Oxygen, shipped. The local Miller dealer wouldn't even come close to that... instead, they tried to talk me down to a Hobart for $525, and stuck to their $799 price on the Miller. I'd have rather bought local, but $200 difference and them not budging was a deal breaker. Another difference is that the Miller has a metal feed roller assembly, the Hobart only has a metal roller, the rest of the assembly is plastic. The Lincoln 140C also has infinite voltage, the 140T does not. The difference between the two is $50-$100 depending on the vendor. The Lincoln 140C is about $20 less than the Miller, but does not have Autoset. The units at the local community college that I learned to weld on were the nice digital infinite control models. Very nice to use and good to learn on. I am not sure I would pay extra for some type of "autoset" feature. I suspect a paper chart that maps wire size/type, metal guage and then gives you voltage and wirespeed would work just as well and save you real $$. But if I had the money and/or planned to do a lot more welding that just my car, I probably would have spent more and went with a nicer unit than what I have today. Next purchase will probably be an inexpensive TIG setup. I do not think inexpensive and tig go together well hehehe. |
Richard Casto |
Jul 22 2009, 09:09 AM
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#7
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Blue Sky Motorsports, LLC Group: Members Posts: 1,465 Joined: 2-August 05 From: Durham, NC Member No.: 4,523 Region Association: South East States |
Next purchase will probably be an inexpensive TIG setup. I do not think inexpensive and tig go together well hehehe. Unfortunatly you are right, but there are some on the cheap end of the scale. I played a bit in welding class with a nicer TIG unit, but at the time the pedal was broke (for the pedal start) and we had to use scratch start mode. That not the best for sure, but it was fun to play with and the scratch start did work. I know people like to slag HF equipment (and I wouldn't pick a HF welder as my primary welder), but I probably will pick up their relatively inexpensive scratch start TIG unit. I think it retails for around $300 (+/-), but they sometimes have it on sale for about $200 (+/-). I am sure it bottom of the barrel and is obviously missing pedal start, but I have heard that people have had good results with it. If I end up doing much TIG, I will probably sell that and buy something nice. But right now I can't justify buying a nice TIG setup. |
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