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> HELP. trouble starting 72 1.7L
forzamotorsport9
post Nov 17 2009, 10:30 PM
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ok so i installed my tangerine racing tunnel and engine compartment lines no problem there, installed a 34R Optima Red-Top, a little big but oh well, went to turn it over, wouldnt turn over. i looked and coming off of the coil is a green wire attached to nothing, i think its a ground. where does this thing go.

any ideas on getting it started and where that ground needs to go. i would figure the engine case but i tried holding it there and pulled out a spark plug and hooked back to the wire to see if it would start and got nothing, i then grounded it to a bolt connecting the tin cover (i think?) to the head and the continuity tester said the circuit was ok so im guessing something has to be wrong with the ignition system, either the coil or distributor, which i THINK is newer and uses the magnetic thing to adjust dwell, which i loosly understand the concept of. also, could it just be the spark plug? it didnt look fouled or anything but i couldnt see a visable spark when having someone try to start the car and it wouldnt gap to the engine case either, so idk whats up

im only 18 and a senior in high school so a lot of this is new to me, ive read about it in magazines but never this deep, nor got my hands dirty (i have now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) )

i just wanna see the damn thing run, for only having 47,259 miles on the clock it shouldnt be too big of a deal to fix.

i included a picture of what it looked like with just a basic clean too, no detailing or anything, not bad for being 38 (i think?) years old!)

i trust the ppl on this site too, so if anybody want my phone number just shoot me a pm and id be more than happy to discuss it on the phone.

THANKS IN ADVANCE.

note: the green wire in the one pic is the one i grounded. it was just sticking up like in the picture before i grounded it

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Spoke
post Dec 8 2009, 01:36 AM
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Jerry
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Here's a couple of simple tests to check for proper voltages:

Test 1: Power Supply Relay operation:

1a) Remove the plug from the ECU. This is 4 pronged ECU connector near the driver rear of the relay board with white wires going towards the ECU. We'll call the 4 pins on this connector:

Pin I is passenger front
Pin II is passenger rear
Pin III is driver front
Pin IV is driver rear

1b) turn ignition switch ON. You should hear a low click when the middle relay turns on. (Power Supply Relay; it's the middle one if you have 3 relays or the front one if you have 2 relays)

1c) Measure voltage on ECU connector pin I (passenger front). It should be 12V.

****************
If 1c) is not 12V, then we have to find out why the Power Supply Relay is not turning on. Do not do the next test.

If 1c) is 12V, then proceed to test fuel pump relay:

****************
Test 2: Fuel Pump Relay Energizing:

2a) Keep ECU plug off. Turn ignition switch OFF.

2b) Get a piece of wire 2 feet long or longer with a female spade on it like shown below. Connect this spade to ECU connector pin III (driver front).

WARNING: The reason for the spaded wire is that Pin I on this connector is 12V through the power supply relay directly to the battery WITH NO FUSE. Accidentally touching Pin I to ground (we're grounding pin III right next to it) can cause serious damage and sparking.

2c) Once the spade is connected to Pin III, hold the other end of the wire up in the air (not connected to anything). Turn ignition switch ON.

2d) Touch and re-touch the other end of the wire to a clean chassis ground. Listen for the fuel pump relay to click when the wire is touched to a clean chassis ground.

****************
If 2d) yields Fuel Pump Relay clicking, proceed to test 3.

****************
Test 3: Fuel Pump Voltage

3a) Remove power connector from fuel pump.

3b) Ground ECU connector pin III (driver front) like in 2b through 2d).

3c) Turn ignition switch ON.

3d) Measure 12V across the 2 wires of the fuel pump connector.

****************
If 3d) yields 12V, then the circuitry to power the fuel pump is ok.


Sorry for the length of this post and the detail. If this stuff was easy my post would be like 10 words long and you'd be driving your car now. It is not easy and a methodical approach will lead us to the fault or faults.

Hang in there, we will get you through this.

If you can't get through this, PM me and we can talk on the phone while you test.

Good luck.


Wire for grounding ECU connector Pin III:


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Posts in this topic
forzamotorsport9   HELP. trouble starting 72 1.7L   Nov 17 2009, 10:30 PM
forzamotorsport9   edit: forgive my god awful grammar there, i swear ...   Nov 17 2009, 10:34 PM
914_teener   I am sure Rich will chime in here but..... Starter...   Nov 17 2009, 10:35 PM
forzamotorsport9   good, i need all the help i can, and im not stubbo...   Nov 17 2009, 10:42 PM
Dave_Darling   Trace that green wire. I'm thinking that it g...   Nov 18 2009, 01:12 AM
silverteener   You've got to be kidding me! another teene...   Nov 18 2009, 10:12 AM
forzamotorsport9   You've got to be kidding me! another teen...   Nov 18 2009, 12:24 PM
r_towle   Hi, In the original ignition system the lead goes...   Nov 18 2009, 04:59 PM
forzamotorsport9   Hi, In the original ignition system the lead goe...   Nov 18 2009, 06:03 PM
r_towle   take the distributor cover off. take a pic of the ...   Nov 18 2009, 06:33 PM
914_teener   take the distributor cover off. take a pic of the...   Nov 18 2009, 07:16 PM
forzamotorsport9   take the distributor cover off. take a pic of the...   Nov 18 2009, 07:37 PM
forzamotorsport9   ok i took the distributor cap of and its the kind ...   Nov 18 2009, 08:16 PM
kenshapiro2002   Guys...I'm low (very low) on the expert pole h...   Nov 19 2009, 06:31 PM
r_towle   good question...I did not see that. I wasnt lookin...   Nov 18 2009, 07:28 PM
silverteener   I just looked at mine and I have no green wire on ...   Nov 18 2009, 08:08 PM
forzamotorsport9   I just looked at mine and I have no green wire on...   Nov 18 2009, 08:21 PM
Socalandy   from the distrib. to the coil. In your first photo...   Nov 18 2009, 08:17 PM
silverteener   might be a stupid question but are you getting fue...   Nov 18 2009, 08:53 PM
Cire   might be a stupid question but are you getting fu...   Nov 18 2009, 08:59 PM
forzamotorsport9   i need to check to see if im getting fuel, should ...   Nov 18 2009, 09:42 PM
forzamotorsport9   ok here are picture of the engine bay and fuel pum...   Nov 19 2009, 11:31 PM
r_towle   It looks like you have points. It also appears tha...   Nov 18 2009, 10:10 PM
forzamotorsport9   It looks like you have points. It also appears th...   Nov 18 2009, 11:36 PM
forzamotorsport9   bump i should probably include that the car has n...   Nov 19 2009, 12:01 PM
r_towle   We need pics of the whole engine bay...no more clo...   Nov 19 2009, 05:35 PM
forzamotorsport9   We need pics of the whole engine bay...no more cl...   Nov 19 2009, 07:24 PM
kenshapiro2002   Never mind...missed that part. [quote name='r_t...   Nov 19 2009, 07:39 PM
r_towle   We just need to do a few things. One, you need to ...   Nov 19 2009, 09:01 PM
914_teener   We just need to do a few things. One, you need to...   Nov 20 2009, 11:32 AM
forzamotorsport9   tank isnt clean but its not that rusty and there i...   Nov 20 2009, 12:40 PM
r_towle   tank isnt clean but its not that rusty and there ...   Nov 20 2009, 02:37 PM
forzamotorsport9   tank isnt clean but its not that rusty and there...   Nov 20 2009, 03:08 PM
silverteener   I'm going to see him tomorrow night. I'm ...   Nov 19 2009, 09:22 PM
forzamotorsport9   I'm going to see him tomorrow night. I'm...   Nov 19 2009, 10:09 PM
silverteener   don't worry about spark right now. it does no...   Nov 19 2009, 10:19 PM
forzamotorsport9   don't worry about spark right now. it does n...   Nov 19 2009, 10:29 PM
forzamotorsport9   ok so i woke up this morning and walked out to the...   Nov 20 2009, 07:18 AM
silverteener   did you reconnect the lines to the fuel pump?   Nov 20 2009, 08:53 AM
kenshapiro2002   Maybe I missed this part, but...did you clean out ...   Nov 20 2009, 09:07 AM
Gint   I'd disconnect the fuel pump and get it out wh...   Nov 20 2009, 09:11 AM
silverteener   if you take that pump off you better have a bucket...   Nov 20 2009, 12:55 PM
silverteener   So I went over to Will's house tonight and he ...   Nov 20 2009, 11:22 PM
914_teener   So I went over to Will's house tonight and he...   Nov 21 2009, 01:18 AM
r_towle   good luck   Nov 22 2009, 04:41 PM
forzamotorsport9   going to check out if the fuel pump is bad tonight...   Nov 23 2009, 12:45 PM
forzamotorsport9   alright, im pulling the fuel pump out today and re...   Nov 30 2009, 12:16 PM
kenshapiro2002   If you're replacing the sock (bought one from ...   Nov 30 2009, 01:11 PM
kenshapiro2002   P.S. BRG 914s are the best.   Nov 30 2009, 01:13 PM
kenshapiro2002   BTW...BRG = Bavarian racing Green P.S. BRG 914s...   Nov 30 2009, 01:13 PM
silverteener   Will, Let me know if you are going to do some wor...   Nov 30 2009, 01:37 PM
kenshapiro2002   Hope that wasn't your reason. Placing a small ...   Nov 30 2009, 01:41 PM
markb   Maybe next time you'll call us & not be pr...   Dec 5 2009, 05:32 PM
silverteener   Nope, the fact that I was quoted a price for ship...   Nov 30 2009, 01:50 PM
kenshapiro2002   I sent an e-mail to AA a fw weeks ago, asking if t...   Nov 30 2009, 02:13 PM
silverteener   now thats customer service :blink:   Nov 30 2009, 02:58 PM
silverteener   it sounds like there is no power at the pump. tim...   Nov 30 2009, 08:48 PM
r_towle   I got lost. Shapiro...lets help this guy on this t...   Nov 30 2009, 09:01 PM
silverteener   I just got back from Wills house and we tried a co...   Dec 5 2009, 01:32 PM
r_towle   Alright. Look at the positive terminal of the batt...   Dec 5 2009, 05:19 PM
forzamotorsport9   Alright. Look at the positive terminal of the bat...   Dec 7 2009, 04:46 PM
forzamotorsport9   ok i have power at the relay board. how do i check...   Dec 7 2009, 06:36 PM
Spoke   Where did you measure power on the relay board? T...   Dec 7 2009, 07:48 PM
forzamotorsport9   Where did you measure power on the relay board? ...   Dec 7 2009, 10:13 PM
r_towle   Where did you measure power on the relay board? ...   Dec 7 2009, 10:18 PM
forzamotorsport9   [quote name='forzamotorsport9' post='1247520' dat...   Dec 7 2009, 10:22 PM
Spoke   Here's the circuit for the fuel pump. When th...   Dec 7 2009, 09:55 PM
r_towle   lemme translate. put a volt meter on the fuel pum...   Dec 7 2009, 10:10 PM
r_towle   have you replaced the fuel pump relay with a known...   Dec 7 2009, 10:31 PM
forzamotorsport9   have you replaced the fuel pump relay with a know...   Dec 7 2009, 10:38 PM
r_towle   what color wire is currently plugged into the fuel...   Dec 7 2009, 10:45 PM
forzamotorsport9   what color wire is currently plugged into the fue...   Dec 7 2009, 11:02 PM
r_towle   what color wire is currently plugged into the fue...   Dec 8 2009, 12:24 AM
forzamotorsport9   what color wire is currently plugged into the fu...   Dec 10 2009, 11:56 PM
Dave_Darling   Power comes into the relay board through the front...   Dec 7 2009, 11:55 PM
914_teener   Dave, I think Rich almost had him home.......Renn...   Dec 8 2009, 12:18 AM
Spoke   Here's a couple of simple tests to check for p...   Dec 8 2009, 01:36 AM
silverteener   Rich, If it turns out to be his ECU I have others...   Dec 8 2009, 12:10 PM
r_towle   Scott, I would advise you to brinng a few with you...   Dec 8 2009, 08:20 PM
forzamotorsport9   Scott, I would advise you to brinng a few with yo...   Dec 10 2009, 12:11 PM
forzamotorsport9   UPDATE! spoke i did your test and got the fu...   Dec 10 2009, 08:08 PM
Spoke   Did you do all the tests listed? Test 3 will tes...   Dec 10 2009, 10:23 PM
forzamotorsport9   Did you do all the tests listed? Test 3 will te...   Dec 10 2009, 11:51 PM
silverteener   ok, We're going to start working on this agai...   Jan 1 2010, 02:38 PM
silverteener   Well we finally got Will's car to my house. I...   Feb 27 2010, 05:53 PM
Spoke   If you can't get the fuel pump relay to click ...   Mar 1 2010, 11:39 AM
silverteener   thanks for the info Spoke. I'm in Atlanta rig...   Mar 2 2010, 06:29 PM
silverteener   Ok, I checked the resistance on the fuel pump rel...   Mar 9 2010, 08:39 PM
silverteener   Will was over tonight so we were able to try a cou...   Mar 10 2010, 08:35 PM
Spoke   Will was over tonight so we were able to try a co...   Mar 11 2010, 06:00 AM
silverteener   Will was over tonight so we were able to try a c...   Mar 11 2010, 08:09 AM
Dave_Darling   Did you check the power and ground wires of the pu...   Mar 11 2010, 02:36 PM
silverteener   I tested the plug for power but how do I check it ...   Mar 11 2010, 02:54 PM
silverteener   Well I believe I found the problem. both fuel pum...   Mar 11 2010, 08:25 PM


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