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> The Very First S-Caliper?, an interesting look at one of DaveP's calipers
Eric_Shea
post Jun 14 2008, 12:23 AM
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Dave Pateman sent some S-Calipers down for a dichromate re-do (not these in the thread, a later pair off a 73+ car) and he graciously sent an odd-ball caliper he had laying around for me to have a look at.

It sure proved interesting and, I have my "theory(s)" as to what it is and how it, and the following S-Caliper lineage came to be. The theory goes like this:

Porsche has been well documented in proving a concept at the track and then positioning that concept on their production line vehicles. I believe that ATE was commissioned to make a lighter caliper for their racing vehicles. I believe what we're about to see is one of the first basic S-Calipers to exist.

On with a tale of two S-Calipers:

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Mine's on the left. It's a reconditioned, very early (69-70) S-Caliper that I will be using on my GT car. Dave's one-off is on the right. The first glaringly obvious difference is the endurance pad pin assembly. Any car that is going to go through S-Caliper pads in a single race is probably going at it for 24 hours.

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Upon further inspection, this caliper was finish machined slightly different as well. The tops were flattened but only by a small amount. Various logos and markings are not in the usual production locations and there's a few "niceties" that would be missing. I'll try to cover it all herein.

First let's look at the bottom side logos. Both are "basically" in the same place but, the casting lines from the production caliper (red arrow) is missing and the logo is centered (refinishers buffed the other logo a tad much):

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The flute around the pad cavity is slightly different. These calipers are nearly identical with the exception of some of these things which lead me to believe a later production model was molded off the same casting. The later flute is slightly deeper:

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Again, markings and castings are slightly different. I do not believe the 68 represents a year. Mine have similar markings elsewhere on the caliper and they're something like 33. I would guess a finisher stamp??

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Here's one of the convenience things or "niceties" I found. It's a pain in the @$$ to get S-Caliper lines and bleeders off. These must have been a bear. Note how the later production model caliper differs:

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This stamping on the machined top tells me this was no afterthought to make it fit a certain wheel. The race dept. probably worked closely with ATE for these specs.:

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Here's the two side by side. Again, proportionately these calipers are identical. You can see how they finished the top on this caliper:

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On the side of the nose of the caliper there's an odd bump, possibly denoting the back of the piston chamber. The production model bump is more pronounced:

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Here's a little more detail on the quick-change endurance pad pin. While this was a rather crude adaptation to the original caliper, I do believe it falls right in line with a factory race look and feel. I'm fairly certain this was an original mod.:

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Pistons are different. The one-off has a very deep piston top. The standard S-Caliper piston is pictured in-hand:

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The pin assembly itself is rather crude and not even but again I think this is a factory manifestation. I've seen these pins on one other set of calipers but without the latch mechanism. All in all, it was an interesting afternoon (for me anyway). Here's a full-on shot of both calipers (pay no attention to the two pair of original GT calipers in the background!):

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What are your thoughts?
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Eric_Shea
post Mar 7 2010, 10:02 PM
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Eric_Shea   The Very First S-Caliper?   Jun 14 2008, 12:23 AM
Jeff Hail   What are your thoughts? I know exactly what the...   Jun 14 2008, 03:19 AM
914Sixer   Porsche was always making upgrades and small chang...   Jun 14 2008, 07:00 AM
URY914   Eric, I got a whole box of those calipers. I boug...   Jun 14 2008, 08:34 AM
davep   I have had this caliper for about 20 years, and kn...   Jun 14 2008, 09:27 AM
davep   More photos show that this is an ATE caliper and t...   Jun 14 2008, 09:29 AM
So.Cal.914   Just when you think that there is no way to shut-u...   Jun 14 2008, 09:41 AM
Eric_Shea   That would be a first... I'm fairly certain ...   Jun 14 2008, 11:10 AM
ericread   Damn, I get such an education from reading these p...   Jun 14 2008, 11:23 AM
Eric_Shea   Naaaaaa... you just need to show up at WCR and d...   Jun 14 2008, 11:53 AM
ericread   Naaaaaa... you just need to show up at WCR and ...   Jun 14 2008, 11:56 AM
Phoenix 914-6GT   Naaaaaa... you just need to show up at WCR and ...   Jun 14 2008, 01:10 PM
Eric_Shea   Thanks E. One more measurement from this AM: The...   Jun 14 2008, 12:23 PM
ConeDodger   Seriously interesting stuff... I am amazed at wha...   Jun 14 2008, 01:25 PM
davep   A. Serrano has extensive documentation of the 908 ...   Jun 14 2008, 09:07 PM
Jeff Hail   A. Serrano has extensive documentation of the 908...   Jun 14 2008, 10:32 PM
Root_Werks   Were's that jaw-drop smiley? :drooley:   Jun 14 2008, 10:36 PM
davep   Jeff, I think we need to talk some more. It is dif...   Jun 15 2008, 07:44 AM
ConeDodger   So these brakes were at home on these cars???   Jun 15 2008, 11:58 AM
Eric_Shea   I would say, unequivocally, that this is not a 9...   Jun 15 2008, 02:20 PM
ConeDodger   I like that quick change feature for the pad pins....   Jun 15 2008, 03:28 PM
Johny Blackstain   :popcorn:!!!   Jun 15 2008, 03:55 PM
Jeff Hail   I am going the 908 route. After digging thru books...   Jun 15 2008, 04:08 PM
Jeff Hail   Now for some brake caliper fun. Digging around man...   Jun 15 2008, 04:10 PM
Jeff Hail   continued   Jun 15 2008, 04:13 PM
Jeff Hail   for comparison and historical fun here are the big...   Jun 15 2008, 04:15 PM
Eric_Shea   OK... now we're really mix'n it up here in...   Jun 15 2008, 04:26 PM
Eric_Shea   In the "continued" post. 1. 1972.5 and ...   Jun 15 2008, 04:28 PM
Jeff Hail   In the "continued" post. 1. 1972.5 and...   Jun 15 2008, 04:34 PM
davep   The calipers marked 'early 917 late 908' a...   Jun 15 2008, 08:00 PM
Eric_Shea   I wouldn't include the 910 caliper as an S-C...   Jun 16 2008, 01:04 AM
davep   1971 - The same as above but with circles with X....   Jun 16 2008, 08:47 AM
championgt1   Cool thread. Love the pictures of the calipers. RS...   Jun 16 2008, 01:12 AM
Eric_Shea   LOL... this is getting crazy! I love it. M...   Jun 16 2008, 10:14 AM
Jeff Hail   LOL... this is getting crazy! I love it. ...   Jun 16 2008, 08:50 PM
Eric_Shea   I'm fairly certain one set goes on my car... :...   Jun 16 2008, 09:52 PM
1970 Neun vierzehn   Jeez, I'll have to remember not to ever get in...   Jun 16 2008, 10:02 PM
davep   No worries mate, I've forgotten 80% of what I ...   Jun 17 2008, 07:15 AM
Eric_Shea   That's a weird indent too. Much more angular ...   Jun 17 2008, 08:51 AM
Eric_Shea   Here's the very early 911S M-Caliper with th...   Jun 17 2008, 08:34 PM
davep   Those calipers look gawd awful. Send them up, and ...   Jun 17 2008, 10:43 PM
Eric_Shea   Is he around?   Jun 17 2008, 10:44 PM
davep   Somewhere near Toronto I understand.   Jun 17 2008, 10:48 PM
Eric_Shea   We should try to look him up (unless you still owe...   Jun 17 2008, 11:09 PM
davep   here is an interesting thread I came across in my ...   Jun 20 2008, 04:05 PM
Jeff Hail   here is an interesting thread I came across in my...   Jun 21 2008, 01:32 AM
Eric_Shea   910 - 1967 907 - 1967-1968 908 - 1968-1969 S-Calip...   Jun 21 2008, 02:42 AM
Eric_Shea   Been busy cloning things...   Feb 3 2010, 09:02 PM
davep   Very nice. They will look even better in person.   Feb 3 2010, 09:45 PM
Sleepin   I see you finally have got my calipers done! :...   Feb 3 2010, 10:00 PM
Eric_Shea   :toke:   Feb 3 2010, 11:11 PM
grouperalley   Intresting stuff. For what its worth, i believe th...   Feb 4 2010, 06:05 PM
Eric_Shea   I seem to have stumbled upon the missing link toda...   Feb 6 2010, 03:29 PM
ChicagoPete   Eric, Although I have never chimed in as I really...   Feb 6 2010, 04:12 PM
Eric_Shea   Thanks Pete! I just grabbed 3 pair for @ ...   Feb 6 2010, 04:28 PM
Eric_Shea   Played around with the "V" (versuch) sta...   Feb 6 2010, 04:31 PM
Eric_Shea   Oh Happy Days! Pins and clips are done and ba...   Mar 5 2010, 10:46 PM
Eric_Shea   Done! (that was a crazy project) :wacko: Th...   Mar 6 2010, 06:27 PM
914Sixer   Whoa, those are things of beauty!! Keep u...   Mar 7 2010, 05:53 AM
ME733   ...........ERIC, your knowledge of brakes and syst...   Mar 7 2010, 12:04 PM
Eric_Shea   Thanks Murray, Show me a proportioning valve on...   Mar 7 2010, 02:58 PM
Eric_Shea   Now on video. John and Dave, your calipers are st...   Mar 7 2010, 07:25 PM
McMark   Beautiful. You pronounce Versuch incorrectly, but...   Mar 7 2010, 08:03 PM
Eric_Shea   What do you expect from a stupid American...? Fer-...   Mar 7 2010, 08:59 PM
Eric_Shea   Fixed.   Mar 7 2010, 10:02 PM
McMark   Well now it's friggin' perfect. B) And t...   Mar 7 2010, 10:15 PM
Eric_Shea   Danke Mark, The credit goes to Dave Pateman who s...   Mar 7 2010, 10:44 PM
ME733   ..........ERIC....add to the mix of wheel sizes, a...   Mar 8 2010, 08:22 AM
Eric_Shea   Thanks Murray, Here's some video's I did ...   Mar 8 2010, 08:28 AM


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