RANT: Electric Conversions, Not what you think...... Options

[KaptKaos]

There's a fellow selling a motor in the classifieds. Here's the link:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92077

Seems normal enough. I assume, maybe wrongly, that this person is using the car for an electric conversion.

I have no issue with people converting their cars to electric motors. However, I am wondering if it is reasonable to ask or inform the people that are looking to do this to please try to use '76 cars? This is particularly important in California, as the smog checks in California aren't required on Pre-76 cars.

There are two counter arguments that I can think of and they are:

1) '76 cars are fairly rare, and therefore either more expensive and/or harder to find.
2) The point of an electric conversion is to reduce emissions, so using a car that has higher emissions makes more sense.

I am not sure if this is practical/possible/reasonable/feasible, so I figured that I'd ask.

Am I out of line here?

Please note that I mean no ill will to the seller above.

[Eric_Shea]

I don't think you're figuring the cost of the batteries into your MPG or MPkW equation no? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

How often do you need to change out the batteries?

How many charges will they take before they're gone?

How are they recycled?

And no... I'm not trying to be an asshole about this, I'd really like to know.

I did a little research and I felt the only thing holding me back from doing an electric conversion on a 914 for my daughters would be the batteries and battery technology. I thought one would have to buy about $3 grand worth of batteries every year.

Have things gotten better? Changed?

The other thing was 900lbs of batteries??

I'm really digging the idea that these cars would be ideal for such a conversion but those are the things that held me back from further exploration after giving it a cursory once over.

[jrmole]

I don't think you're figuring the cost of the batteries into your MPG or MPkW equation no? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

True. But I wasn't figuring the costs of oil changes, air filters, spark plugs, eventual engine overhauls, etc. into the cost of the gas engine per mile either. Of course, these are probably less per mile than the battery pack...

How often do you need to change out the batteries?

I drove my 914 a couple thousand miles with no change in performance. Unfortunately, the e-brake failed one day and it rolled out of the driveway and hit a tree across the street (no engine braking from an electric motor). The batteries were damaged as well as minor body damage. It's in the shop now waiting for a new paint job.

Other conversions seems to get ~15,000 miles per battery pack (lead acid). At ~$2k per pack, that adds $0.13 cents per mile. Certainly more than than the electricity. And comes close to leveling the playing field with a gasoline car per mile.

How many charges will they take before they're gone?

That really depends on the batteries, the chargers and how deeply you discharge them each cycle. The manufacture's data is often useless. The 15,000 miles per pack is a better measure, I think.

How are they recycled?

Just like car batteries. Supposedly lead is one of the most recycled product on the planet. It is sooo much cheaper to get lead out of old batteries than out of the ground that almost any battery you buy will be mostly made from old batteries.

And no... I'm not trying to be an asshole about this, I'd really like to know.

Didn't come across as an asshole. I am glad to answer some questions.

I did a little research and I felt the only thing holding me back from doing an electric conversion on a 914 for my daughters would be the batteries and battery technology. I thought one would have to buy about $3 grand worth of batteries every year.

Have things gotten better? Changed?

The other thing was 900lbs of batteries??

Well, my pack was ~1,200 pounds. I had to beef up the suspension and added a full roll cage to help stiffen up the car. It handled great but struggled to get the weight up hills. As far as braking, my conversion had regenerative braking that would throw you against the seatbelt if you turned it up all the way - much better than the brakes on a stock 914.

Given my trouble with battery acid, and the dropping price of lithium batteries, I am going to switch to that when I get the car back from the shop. The pack and associated charging system will be about $10,000. This is down from almost $40,000 5 years ago (when I started on my conversion).

The lithiums are supposed to be good for ~150,000 miles, so that will drop the price of the batteries per mile to ~$0.07 or half what lead costs. I hope to get > 10 years on this pack without maintenance.

The new pack will drop ~850 pounds from the car and, since I am running at a higher voltage, give me more torque too. Looking forward to driving it.

I'm really digging the idea that these cars would be ideal for such a conversion but those are the things that held me back from further exploration after giving it a cursory once over.

This is no more a money saving project than doing a complete rebuild and swapping motors. If you want to drive cheap, buy a used mid-90's Honda Civic for a couple of grand. I used to own one that routinely gave me 45 MPG. Or buy an old motorcycle even cheaper and get even better mileage.

I am doing it because I think it is a fun project. Same reason I assume most 914 owners deal with the joys of a 40 year-old car. I just have a slightly different definition of fun than the people putting V8's into these cars.

Happy driving.