23 mm Master cylinder?, From a 930? Options

[HalfMoon]

A friend of mine who owns a race shop that does alot of Porsche work said when queried about reducing travel on the 914 brake system that the 23mm master cylinder from a 930 would far better reduce the travel over a 19mm master cylinder.
Has anyone done this mod and if so, what were the performance gains/differences?
Thanks
D

[HalfMoon]

To clarify-

I run a 19mm too (as well as a variety of other big brake mods). The primary question I'm pursuing isn't brake "power" (performance gains/differences is/was ancillary), rather it's about "less pedal travel".
That's what the inquiry is really about as well as the advice I had been given.
So I guess the question is for folks who have ACTUALLY done the modification to a 23mm and if they have obtained less pedal travel as a result.
Not asking about theory or opinion, asking about actual experience. Many of us have done the 19mm change and their's reams of information on that mod but not much about the 23mm and pretty much nothing in terms of actual experience.
The main thrust of the question is "brake travel".

[mepstein]

To clarify-

I run a 19mm too (as well as a variety of other big brake mods). The primary question I'm pursuing isn't brake "power" (performance gains/differences is/was ancillary), rather it's about "less pedal travel".
That's what the inquiry is really about as well as the advice I had been given.
So I guess the question is for folks who have ACTUALLY done the modification to a 23mm and if they have obtained less pedal travel as a result.
Not asking about theory or opinion, asking about actual experience. Many of us have done the 19mm change and their's reams of information on that mod but not much about the 23mm and pretty much nothing in terms of actual experience.
The main thrust of the question is "brake travel".

The change in pressure and travel when you go to a larger MC isn't theory or opinion. Its a relationship/ratio between the size of the MC and size of the piston calipers. If you keep the calipers the same but increase the size of the MC, the MC will move more fluid with less pedal travel but at the same time, you will need more pressure on the pedal to achieve the same braking force at the caliper. Just like sitting on a see saw, shorten the lever on your side and it gets harder to lift the other end but the travel on your end is shorter. Go too short and at some point, you don't have the force available to move the lever. You also have to make sure the ratio front to back is correct. Its not just about going big, it's about the correct balance.

You won't see much information on World about 23mm MC's because most of the cars simply can't use a MC that large unless they've also switched to very large calipers.

[HalfMoon]

To clarify-

I run a 19mm too (as well as a variety of other big brake mods). The primary question I'm pursuing isn't brake "power" (performance gains/differences is/was ancillary), rather it's about "less pedal travel".
That's what the inquiry is really about as well as the advice I had been given.
So I guess the question is for folks who have ACTUALLY done the modification to a 23mm and if they have obtained less pedal travel as a result.
Not asking about theory or opinion, asking about actual experience. Many of us have done the 19mm change and their's reams of information on that mod but not much about the 23mm and pretty much nothing in terms of actual experience.
The main thrust of the question is "brake travel".

The change in pressure and travel when you go to a larger MC isn't theory or opinion. Its a relationship/ratio between the size of the MC and size of the piston calipers. If you keep the calipers the same but increase the size of the MC, the MC will move more fluid with less pedal travel but at the same time, you will need more pressure on the pedal to achieve the same braking force at the caliper. Just like sitting on a see saw, shorten the lever on your side and it gets harder to lift the other end but the travel on your end is shorter. Go too short and at some point, you don't have the force available to move the lever. You also have to make sure the ratio front to back is correct. Its not just about going big, it's about the correct balance.

You won't see much information on World about 23mm MC's because most of the cars simply can't use a MC that large unless they've also switched to very large calipers.

Yep, already knew all that thanks.
So, have you done the conversion and have actual road experience with same and if so did it reduce your brake travel?

[mepstein]

To clarify-

I run a 19mm too (as well as a variety of other big brake mods). The primary question I'm pursuing isn't brake "power" (performance gains/differences is/was ancillary), rather it's about "less pedal travel".
That's what the inquiry is really about as well as the advice I had been given.
So I guess the question is for folks who have ACTUALLY done the modification to a 23mm and if they have obtained less pedal travel as a result.
Not asking about theory or opinion, asking about actual experience. Many of us have done the 19mm change and their's reams of information on that mod but not much about the 23mm and pretty much nothing in terms of actual experience.
The main thrust of the question is "brake travel".

The change in pressure and travel when you go to a larger MC isn't theory or opinion. Its a relationship/ratio between the size of the MC and size of the piston calipers. If you keep the calipers the same but increase the size of the MC, the MC will move more fluid with less pedal travel but at the same time, you will need more pressure on the pedal to achieve the same braking force at the caliper. Just like sitting on a see saw, shorten the lever on your side and it gets harder to lift the other end but the travel on your end is shorter. Go too short and at some point, you don't have the force available to move the lever. You also have to make sure the ratio front to back is correct. Its not just about going big, it's about the correct balance.

You won't see much information on World about 23mm MC's because most of the cars simply can't use a MC that large unless they've also switched to very large calipers.

Yep, already knew all that thanks.
So, have you done the conversion and have actual road experience with same and if so did it reduce your brake travel?

Yes, yes, yes, a bigger MC will reduce brake pedal travel. Lots of 911's go through our shop with all different combos. Some of the best working brakes are stock setups that are maintained well. Porsche does their homework when it comes to braking systems. Just like DB Cooper, I raced mountain and road bikes and like a softer, longer travel pedal for less effort and better feel and modulation.

[porschetub]

To clarify-

I run a 19mm too (as well as a variety of other big brake mods). The primary question I'm pursuing isn't brake "power" (performance gains/differences is/was ancillary), rather it's about "less pedal travel".
That's what the inquiry is really about as well as the advice I had been given.
So I guess the question is for folks who have ACTUALLY done the modification to a 23mm and if they have obtained less pedal travel as a result.
Not asking about theory or opinion, asking about actual experience. Many of us have done the 19mm change and their's reams of information on that mod but not much about the 23mm and pretty much nothing in terms of actual experience.
The main thrust of the question is "brake travel".

The change in pressure and travel when you go to a larger MC isn't theory or opinion. Its a relationship/ratio between the size of the MC and size of the piston calipers. If you keep the calipers the same but increase the size of the MC, the MC will move more fluid with less pedal travel but at the same time, you will need more pressure on the pedal to achieve the same braking force at the caliper. Just like sitting on a see saw, shorten the lever on your side and it gets harder to lift the other end but the travel on your end is shorter. Go too short and at some point, you don't have the force available to move the lever. You also have to make sure the ratio front to back is correct. Its not just about going big, it's about the correct balance.

You won't see much information on World about 23mm MC's because most of the cars simply can't use a MC that large unless they've also switched to very large calipers.

Yep, already knew all that thanks.
So, have you done the conversion and have actual road experience with same and if so did it reduce your brake travel?

Yes, yes, yes, a bigger MC will reduce brake pedal travel. Lots of 911's go through our shop with all different combos. Some of the best working brakes are stock setups that are maintained well. Porsche does their homework when it comes to braking systems. Just like DB Cooper, I raced mountain and road bikes and like a softer, longer travel pedal for less effort and better feel and modulation.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with all the above,really about overkill,as mentioned a well set up stock system will do the job easily,brake pads for instance have come a long way since the 70's.
We need to remember we have an un-assisted system in these cars,pedal travel may be reduced,is that really needed ???,19mm is more than enough even with bigger calipers...cause I know it works.