Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> D-Jet Fuel Injection Pulse Phasing
Not_A_Six
post Jul 15 2020, 04:51 PM
Post #1


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 110
Joined: 28-November 18
From: North Idaho
Member No.: 22,682
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



Hi All-

I recently installed a 123Ignition dizzy in my '73 2.0. It apparently can be installed in any of 4 orientations, in 90 degree increments and operate properly when wired to the plugs appropriately.

The d-jet version of the 123 dizzy also has two wires that are used to time the two groups of fuel injection pulses (cyl 1+4 and 3+2). These wires can be connected to the ECU in either polarity, and the "correct" polarity to time/phase the injection pulses seems to depend upon both the distributor orientation, and the wire polarity. Instructions from 123 Ignition show a connector sketch that "suggests" a particular polarity, but I think the correct one also depends on the chosen dizzy orientation, as well as the firing order. (The dizzy can be used in non-914 applications. E.g., with a straight 4.)

I'm an EE. I've been through Paul Anders' ( @pbanders ) very helpful writeups on the ECU and d-jet operation. I've got d-jet schematics. And, I've got a generic (Volvo?) chart purporting to show the injection timing WRT the cylinders (which seems to have a lot of discrepancies with a 914 setup with different firing order.) I've also looked at the injection pulse/spark timing with an oscilloscope (with a high-v probe).

It looks like the orientation and polarity can be adjusted to inject fuel at any of the following times:

1) Inject cylinders 1 and 3 during intake stroke and cylinders 4 and 2 during exhaust stroke.

2) Inject cylinders 1 and 3 during power stroke and cylinders 4 and 2 during compression stroke.

3) Inject cylinders 1 and 3 during exhaust stroke and cylinders 4 and 2 during power stroke.

4) Inject cylinders 1 and 3 during compression stroke and cylinders 4 and 2 during intake stroke.

I think the choice of the 4 options above would affect the dwell time of the fuel charge in the intake runners and might also cause some raw fuel to be sent out the exhaust if a pulse occurs during valve overlap.

Which of the 4 configurations is correct? Is my analysis correct, or did I miss something? Any other advice you can give me?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)




User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies
JeffBowlsby
post Jul 15 2020, 10:40 PM
Post #2


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,781
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



Sounds good. Hence the need for two 50% fuel charges per combustion cycle.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Not_A_Six
post Jul 16 2020, 09:23 AM
Post #3


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 110
Joined: 28-November 18
From: North Idaho
Member No.: 22,682
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Jul 15 2020, 09:40 PM) *

Sounds good. Hence the need for two 50% fuel charges per combustion cycle.


I'm not sure if we're on the same page here or not, depending on what you mean by "fuel charge" and "combustion cycle".

Each *cylinder* gets 100% of its fuel charge (25% of the total) in a single fuel pulse, but the timing is different for each cylinder (1 and 3 during intake; 2 and 4 during exhaust).

Through 720 degrees of crank rotation, there will be a total of 2 fuel pulses (one per "group"), with each pulse delivering 50% of the total charge needed by all cylinders during that 720 degrees. (I think this is what you meant by"two 50% fuel charges per combustion cycle"...)

Do I understand you correctly?

Cheers.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JeffBowlsby
post Jul 16 2020, 10:38 AM
Post #4


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,781
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



The trigger points contain 2 switches which each initiate an injection pulse 180 degrees dizzy rotation apart, each switch firing a bank of two paired injectors.



Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Not_A_Six
post Jul 16 2020, 11:44 AM
Post #5


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 110
Joined: 28-November 18
From: North Idaho
Member No.: 22,682
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Jul 16 2020, 09:38 AM) *

The trigger points contain 2 switches which each initiate an injection pulse 180 degrees dizzy rotation apart, each switch firing a bank of two paired injectors.


Sure. On a '73 2.0 d-jet 914, the pulses are the "B" ones in that diagram. One pulse per cylinder per 720-degree I-C-P-E cycle. (with 180 degrees of dizzy rotation corresponding to 360 degrees of crank rotation.)

Do you agree?

Thanks.



User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
Not_A_Six   D-Jet Fuel Injection Pulse Phasing   Jul 15 2020, 04:51 PM
914_teener   I installed the 123 with stock D jet as shown per ...   Jul 15 2020, 05:31 PM
Not_A_Six   I installed the 123 with stock D jet as shown per...   Jul 15 2020, 05:39 PM
JeffBowlsby   If I recall, DJet squirts a 50% charge in two batc...   Jul 15 2020, 06:59 PM
Not_A_Six   If I recall, DJet squirts a 50% charge in two bat...   Jul 15 2020, 07:13 PM
Not_A_Six   If I recall, DJet squirts a 50% charge in two bat...   Jul 15 2020, 09:56 PM
JeffBowlsby   Sounds good. Hence the need for two 50% fuel char...   Jul 15 2020, 10:40 PM
Not_A_Six   Sounds good. Hence the need for two 50% fuel cha...   Jul 16 2020, 09:23 AM
JeffBowlsby   The trigger points contain 2 switches which each i...   Jul 16 2020, 10:38 AM
Not_A_Six   The trigger points contain 2 switches which each ...   Jul 16 2020, 11:44 AM
914_teener   Added plus with the electronic dizzy is the elimin...   Jul 16 2020, 09:22 AM
Not_A_Six   Added plus with the electronic dizzy is the elimi...   Jul 16 2020, 09:58 AM
914_teener   Added plus with the electronic dizzy is the elim...   Jul 16 2020, 11:04 AM
Not_A_Six   Thanks! Yeah, the 123 dizzy looks pretty s...   Jul 16 2020, 12:16 PM
914_teener   [quote name='914_teener' post='2834348' date='Jul...   Jul 16 2020, 05:54 PM
Not_A_Six   Yes....I believe you are missing something. Fir...   Jul 16 2020, 06:54 PM
GregAmy   Bosch D-Jetronic is "batch injection". ...   Jul 16 2020, 12:02 PM
Not_A_Six   Bosch D-Jetronic is "batch injection". ...   Jul 16 2020, 12:20 PM
rjames   I have a 123dizzy and wasn’t able to get idle rp...   Jul 16 2020, 07:38 PM
Not_A_Six   I have a 123dizzy and wasn’t able to get idle r...   Jul 16 2020, 07:46 PM
Frank S   FWIW, this is not a stock engine. It's a 2056...   Jul 17 2020, 12:55 AM
Not_A_Six   FWIW, this is not a stock engine. It's a 205...   Jul 17 2020, 10:35 AM
Not_A_Six   Update for anybody interested: A special thanks t...   Jul 31 2020, 03:35 PM
914_teener   [quote name='Frank S' date='Jul 16 202...   Jul 17 2020, 04:25 PM
Not_A_Six   ...And so you would ajust the static timing and ru...   Jul 17 2020, 06:31 PM
914_teener   The ported vacuum is not "disabled". Tha...   Jul 16 2020, 08:02 PM
Not_A_Six   The ported vacuum is not "disabled". Th...   Jul 16 2020, 08:07 PM
ctc911ctc   THIS THREAD IS MASTER CLASS! :beer2: :head...   Jul 17 2020, 07:43 PM
pbanders   IMO, if there's a choice on the 123 between va...   May 21 2021, 04:21 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
9 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 27th December 2024 - 01:04 AM