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914/4: 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 914/6: 70 71 72

> Tinware writing, Was this on all cars…??
Clubsport32
post Nov 7 2021, 01:13 AM
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Hi All

Have seen this on an unrestored car…does anybody have anymore details…? I assume the 022 refers to the 1.7L but what about the other number?

Any insight would be appreciated…thanks

Andy


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wonkipop
post Nov 19 2021, 11:15 PM
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@StarBear & @JeffBowlsby .

i have managed to find some stuff about the implementation of the clean air act in the USA that indicate the original plan to have the US car fleet fitted with cats by 1975 had to be delayed slightly.

There was a problem getting enough cats made and into the supply chain early.

i'll keep digging as i get bits of spare time.

The plan was drawn up by the US Government in 1970, EPA was founded etc.
California was granted the special dispensation that it still has to this day, originally to set their own standards, but in reality to simply introduce standards proposed by the EPA a year earlier. The EPA figured this was a practical way to do things, phasing in technology for 50 states over 2 years instead of 1.

Cat original timetable were proposed for all 50 states by 1975. Which meant California would have had cats in 1974. But it got shifted. So 74 is a kind of stand still year in some ways though california went ahead and lowered NOx emission levels. A by product of lowered NOx levels was an increase in C0 levels. Cats would have lowered the C0 and turned it into C02 and HC into C02 and H20. They took the C0 hit from no cats for one year in order to drop the NOx which was a major ingredient of smog.

Thats why the 73 California 1.7s have unleaded engines. They are getting ready to take the cats the next year in 74. The unleaded part of the timetable stayed on track.

In 74 all the engines in 50 states go unleaded capable for all cars.

A second reason for unleaded which i never realised is that the lower compression ratios of unleaded engines also lowered NOx emissions as they ran at lower combustion temps.

so i think something goes on with 74 1.8s where they get them ready to be a cat equiped 1.8 and a non cat 1.8 but it never happens in reality until 75. but the evidence gets left behind.

in the end its all in how the throttle body hoses get hooked up to the distributor.
the TBs have both ports (or have the capacity to have both ports) they are just used differently from cat cars to non cat cars in 75.

there is a bit of evidence on this website from threads 10 or more years ago about the different ways the TBs on 74 1.8s were hooked up to the vacuum advance/retard distributors - it seems in a variety of ways. i think that is what the different throttle bodies are about. whether or not a port was capped or non capped and whether it was hooked up or not hooked up.

the port operating off manifold vacuum and connected to the retard port on the distributor would achieve the low NOx at idle level (via retarded timing at idle) if the state required it (california?).

the other port operating off vacuum at part throttle and connected to the advance port on the distributor is a fairly standard form of vacuum advance for fuel efficiency and economy. likely to have remained hooked up on all cars for all 50 states?

i think early on with the 1.8s they might have been playing around with it as variables.
but by the time you get to something like my car or starbears they just hook them all up and make it basically a 50 state car (and from then on only offer a 50 state car?).

still does not quite explain the A or B sticker. but the interesting thing about the A or B sticker is both cars are 50 state compliant - and from what i can tell in the photos the A car (blue car on mr. b website) is the same as our B cars. I can see the distributor hookup, its the same, and i can see the engine bay charcoal can, its the same.

a further possibility for the A or B on the sticker is that it refers to a engine group test batch standard. the cars were certified by agreed to tests of vehicles taken off the production line at specified intervals conducted by the manufacturer and submitted to the EPA and or CARB. These were the full tests that measured HC, CO and NOx concentrations (as distinct from simpler annual exhaust checks required of owners).
Its possible that EC-A and EC-B might mean that vw/porsche did two separate such tests for the EC engine, both of which in the end conform to all 50 states, but have different paperwork. the sticker indicates which test a particular engine fitted in the car conforms to. The difference may be because there is minor variation/or even just a second test of the same variation?

I say this because apparently that is what the engine group code on the sticker really means. it means the manufacturers engine group, but a little more - the manufacturers engine group test for EPA and CARB certification purposes.

For there to be a california 1,8 and a non california 1.8 there has to be somewhere an emission sticker that says EPA approved only? its going to be something other than EC-A or EC-B (they both say california + EPA).

It could be for instance EC? a sticker photo drive amongst members with 1.8s might find what is there.
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Posts in this topic
Clubsport32   Tinware writing   Nov 7 2021, 01:13 AM
davep   I think most engines had the markings. With all th...   Nov 7 2021, 06:22 AM
StarBear   Those number are quite different than any I’ve s...   Nov 10 2021, 08:02 PM
wonkipop   sure look different to mine too. mine probably loo...   Nov 11 2021, 01:44 AM
StarBear   This is what every one I've ever seen looks li...   Nov 12 2021, 10:29 AM
wonkipop   mine looks like that- sort of. number is 604 inst...   Nov 12 2021, 04:15 PM
StarBear   There was a thread a few months ago. Might make se...   Nov 12 2021, 06:04 PM
davep   I do not believe these were stenciled; it looks mo...   Nov 12 2021, 09:49 PM
wonkipop   I do not believe these were stenciled; it looks m...   Nov 13 2021, 01:34 AM
StarBear   Wow! How do you find this stuff? Great job; ke...   Nov 13 2021, 06:55 AM
wonkipop   its part of my real job - historical research. we...   Nov 13 2021, 03:24 PM
JeffBowlsby   I have a good colleciotn of these on my webpage. ...   Nov 13 2021, 03:39 PM
JeffBowlsby   According to my list: 604 is a 1974 1.8L, but I d...   Nov 13 2021, 03:49 PM
wonkipop   According to my list: 604 is a 1974 1.8L, but I ...   Nov 13 2021, 04:03 PM
wonkipop   According to my list: 604 is a 1974 1.8L, but I ...   Nov 13 2021, 07:35 PM
JeffBowlsby   mr. b, whats the little silver sticker under the...   Nov 13 2021, 08:46 PM
wonkipop   [quote name='wonkipop' post='2959676' date='Nov 1...   Nov 13 2021, 09:06 PM
JeffBowlsby   an EC-A is a frunk can car with the porsche evap...   Nov 13 2021, 11:04 PM
wonkipop   an EC-A is a frunk can car with the porsche eva...   Nov 14 2021, 12:27 AM
wonkipop   i've seen a snatch of footage where you can se...   Nov 13 2021, 03:59 PM
wonkipop   ok mr. b mine is an EC-B on that sticker. jan 74...   Nov 13 2021, 04:06 PM
StarBear   Yep; just checked sticker: EC-B. States “Califor...   Nov 13 2021, 05:48 PM
wonkipop   Yep; just checked sticker: EC-B. States “Califo...   Nov 13 2021, 06:30 PM
StarBear   i really feel its a batching thing. but thats a...   Nov 14 2021, 11:12 AM
StarBear   Not sure. JEff’s first post indicates 605 EC-B i...   Nov 13 2021, 05:53 PM
wonkipop   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showu...   Nov 13 2021, 07:23 PM
JeffBowlsby   Tellin' yah all I know, which isn't sayin...   Nov 13 2021, 08:38 PM
wonkipop   mr b was there any difference between a cali 2.0 ...   Nov 13 2021, 09:16 PM
JeffBowlsby   A conditional yes. Depends on how ‘engine’ is...   Nov 13 2021, 09:45 PM
wonkipop   A conditional yes. Depends on how ‘engine’ i...   Nov 14 2021, 12:36 AM
wonkipop   fascinating. there is nothing in the factory manu...   Nov 13 2021, 10:23 PM
wonkipop   ps @JeffBowlsby . i'm still looking at that ...   Nov 14 2021, 12:33 AM
JeffBowlsby   ps [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.p...   Nov 14 2021, 09:22 AM
wonkipop   ps [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index....   Nov 14 2021, 02:08 PM
wonkipop   ok @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?...   Nov 14 2021, 12:51 AM
JeffBowlsby   Wonk, That page from the 75 S&T manual also i...   Nov 14 2021, 08:40 AM
wonkipop   @JeffBowlsby mr. b i found this in factory manu...   Nov 14 2021, 01:49 PM
StarBear   Here's my engine bay sticker. Clean and clear....   Nov 14 2021, 04:02 PM
JeffBowlsby   1973 1.7L EB code has lower compression, to meet C...   Nov 14 2021, 04:26 PM
wonkipop   1973 1.7L EB code has lower compression, to meet ...   Nov 15 2021, 02:51 AM
wonkipop   1973 1.7L EB code has lower compression, to meet ...   Nov 15 2021, 06:38 AM
JeffBowlsby   914 mysteries continue...   Nov 15 2021, 07:27 AM
StarBear   Good info. @wonkipop looks like your vin number ...   Nov 15 2021, 07:58 AM
wonkipop   Good info. @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/in...   Nov 15 2021, 08:17 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear . mine is 13361 for last 5 digits. [b...   Nov 15 2021, 06:23 PM
JeffBowlsby   Wow...I think you are on to something. I dont knw...   Nov 15 2021, 06:54 PM
StarBear   Wow...I think you are on to something. I dont kn...   Nov 15 2021, 09:13 PM
wonkipop   Wow...I think you are on to something. I dont kn...   Nov 15 2021, 11:19 PM
StarBear   OK; Here are my "unmolested" 1.8L data: ...   Nov 16 2021, 09:04 AM
wonkipop   @StarBear . distributor superseded PN is handy i...   Nov 16 2021, 02:55 PM
StarBear   Yep; my TB is original. Curiosity is telling me to...   Nov 16 2021, 03:48 PM
wonkipop   Yep; my TB is original. Curiosity is telling me t...   Nov 16 2021, 04:36 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear & [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com...   Nov 17 2021, 02:14 AM
StarBear   Awesome investigative work, @wonkipop ! Yep;...   Nov 17 2021, 07:21 AM
wonkipop   Awesome investigative work, @[url=http://www.914...   Nov 17 2021, 04:47 PM
StarBear   Maybe that little “1” I saw was an “L”. Wi...   Nov 17 2021, 05:02 PM
wonkipop   Maybe that little “1” I saw was an “L”. W...   Nov 17 2021, 05:12 PM
StarBear   Maybe that little “1” I saw was an “L”. ...   Nov 17 2021, 08:14 PM
wonkipop   something i got to check is i swear i came across ...   Nov 17 2021, 05:10 PM
wonkipop   i had to reread up how VW parts numbers work again...   Nov 17 2021, 09:42 PM
StarBear   I wonder if (?) the other letters denote the secon...   Nov 18 2021, 07:12 AM
wonkipop   I wonder if (?) the other letters denote the seco...   Nov 18 2021, 04:47 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear . you are right about letters being man...   Nov 19 2021, 10:43 PM
wonkipop   @JeffBowlsby . there are plenty of threads you ca...   Nov 19 2021, 10:49 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear & [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com...   Nov 19 2021, 11:15 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear . further thought on what the H on TB m...   Nov 20 2021, 01:10 AM
wonkipop   difference between a 74 1.8 throttle body and a 75...   Nov 20 2021, 03:10 PM
wonkipop   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showu...   Nov 20 2021, 04:58 PM
wonkipop   a bit more information re EC engines in USA cars. ...   Nov 22 2021, 05:49 PM
wonkipop   i did some more trawling through older car ads sti...   Nov 22 2021, 06:35 PM
wonkipop   SUMMARY OF POSITIONS OF VACUUM HOSES BY EXPERTS. ...   Nov 22 2021, 10:40 PM
StarBear   Hmmmm…. Thinking I should add the two unconnecte...   Nov 23 2021, 07:38 AM
wonkipop   @StarBear . depends how fanatical you want to be a...   Nov 23 2021, 03:42 PM
wonkipop   last night i did a bit of reading up on 1973. not...   Nov 23 2021, 04:42 PM
StarBear   My head and brain hurt….. :blink:   Nov 23 2021, 06:59 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear - not as much as mine did trying to wor...   Nov 23 2021, 07:12 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear here is the quick summary version. EC...   Nov 23 2021, 08:16 PM
StarBear   Yep; that sums it up nicely! Interested to see...   Nov 24 2021, 07:52 AM
wonkipop   Yep; that sums it up nicely! Interested to se...   Nov 24 2021, 02:26 PM
StarBear   [quote name='StarBear' post='2962122' date='Nov 2...   Nov 24 2021, 03:12 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear . Found another one that was for sale a...   Nov 24 2021, 05:06 PM
StarBear   More interesting stuff. Found the tuneup sticker t...   Nov 24 2021, 05:37 PM
JeffBowlsby   I dont, sorry. I right click alot and dont recall...   Nov 24 2021, 06:00 PM
StarBear   I dont, sorry. I right click alot and dont recal...   Nov 24 2021, 06:10 PM
wonkipop   I dont, sorry. I right click alot and dont recal...   Nov 24 2021, 08:05 PM
wonkipop   they draw both ports on the dizzy diagrams @StarB...   Nov 24 2021, 07:56 PM
StarBear   A thought- lots of members listing early 74s in th...   Nov 24 2021, 08:20 PM
wonkipop   A thought- lots of members listing early 74s in t...   Nov 24 2021, 09:11 PM
wonkipop   @StarBear found this. maybe of interest. don...   Nov 25 2021, 05:39 AM
StarBear   Interesting. Good idea with the new thread; maybe ...   Nov 25 2021, 07:46 AM
wonkipop   another good one i found digging back into sales a...   Nov 25 2021, 05:26 PM
wonkipop   @JeffBowlsby free first service card. i gu...   Nov 25 2021, 05:40 PM
wonkipop   firm confirmation of plumbing to engine bay charco...   Nov 25 2021, 05:53 PM
wonkipop   14 jan 74 car at top of page is exactly same as mi...   Nov 25 2021, 07:57 PM
wonkipop   @JeffBowlsby after all the info came in from mem...   Dec 16 2021, 04:23 PM
JeffBowlsby   @wonkipop Wonki...Your research is exhaustive, a...   Dec 16 2021, 05:27 PM
StarBear   [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s...   Dec 17 2021, 09:23 AM
wonkipop   its still a bit of a speculation. its hard to get...   Dec 16 2021, 07:32 PM
Van B   Strangely enough I have two distinct thoughts as I...   Dec 16 2021, 07:52 PM
JeffBowlsby   The center console /gauges were just an optional e...   Dec 17 2021, 01:03 AM
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