Attention Electrical Gurus, Need help with windshield washer wiring Options

[bbrock]

Right after ordering a complete Car Magic kit to convert my windshield washer to electric, I read Sir Andy's excellent tech article on the conversion. The idea of pulling power for the washer pump off the intermittent wiper feed so the washer is activated by pulling back on the wiper lever was too elegant not to try.

I happened to have this nifty vintage VW style splitter I bought some time ago for not other reason than I thought it might come in handy for some future custom wiring project. It was just the ticket for splitting off of my intermittent washer relay to power the washer pump.



After hooking everything up, I pulled back on the wiper lever and HUZZAH! The washers squirted and the wipers ran for two sweeps and parked. Pretty slick! I couldn't understand how the intermittent wipers would work when the lever was pulled down to turn the intermittent wipers on. I pull down on the lever to test them and nothing. As soon as I unplug the washer pump, the intermittent wipers start running. I'm not sure how the intermittent relay works, but thinking the timer is from charging a capacitor which then "bump starts" the wipers to run a single cycle.

Is there is a reasonably simple way to isolate the pump so it allows the intermittent mechanism to run without activating the washer pump? Could be a fun project. Or should I just go back to the original plan of installing the Car Magic switch? I just like the idea of minimizing the wiring.

[Superhawk996]

@bbrock

Do you actually have your intermittent relay wired in just like this?


I think that you are saying no. It sounds to me like you are using the motor low speed feed as your control (S terminal) to the intermittent relay rather than the brown/black wire that is only getting 12V when stalk is pulled?

Your "schematic" you provided seems to imply that you're using pin 15 as the output from your intermittent relay and that is what is feeding the washer pump? That would not be the same intermittent wiring as the 914/6 & Bowlsby kit.

And if I understand your intent correctly, you want:

1) Washer pump operates along with intermittent wipe when you pull the switch?
2) Intermittent wipe operates continuously when the switch is in position J?

[bbrock]

@bbrock

Do you actually have your intermittent relay wired in just like this?


I think that you are saying no. It sounds to me like you are using the motor low speed feed as your control (S terminal) to the intermittent relay rather than the brown/black wire that is only getting 12V when stalk is pulled?

Your "schematic" you provided seems to imply that you're using pin 15 as the output from your intermittent relay and that is what is feeding the washer pump? That would not be the same intermittent wiring as the 914/6 & Bowlsby kit.

Whoops! My bad. I labeled that relay terminal from memory and was too lazy to look up whether it was correct. I do have my relay wired exactly as Jeff outlines in his article. So my complex diagram should have that labeled as 'S.' Sorry about that. To be clear, the brwn/blk wire is the control wire for the intermittent.

You're explanation of the grn/wht wire makes sense and I think completes the understanding for me. The brwn/blk wire goes to ground in all positions except "J" and when the lever is pulled back. This circuit flow style schematic makes it impossible to tell the exact wire path of that ground. I think it is through the grn/wht wire. The relay schematic might shed some light on that but I'm too lazy right now.

All I need to know is that the brwn/blk wire sometimes works as a ground, sometimes as V+, and sometimes as nothing at all. I suppose that is German ingenuity to use a single wire for multiple purposes but it sure is confusing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

And if I understand your intent correctly, you want:

1) Washer pump operates along with intermittent wipe when you pull the switch?
2) Intermittent wipe operates continuously when the switch is in position J?

Right, and right now splitting off the brwn/blk wire to the washer (+), then #1 works. If you disconnect that wire from the washer pump which restores the stock wiring config, #2 works.

[Superhawk996]

You're explanation of the grn/wht wire makes sense and I think completes the understanding for me. The brwn/blk wire goes to ground in all positions except "J" and when the lever is pulled back. This circuit flow style schematic makes it impossible to tell the exact wire path of that ground. I think it is through the grn/wht wire. The relay schematic might shed some light on that but I'm too lazy right now.

No -- that brown / black doesn't get ground though the green/white.

Here is where the brown/black gets ground -- it's coming though the NC (normally closed) connection of the pull switch. When the switch is pulled this ground (yellow arrows) is interrupted and 12v is applied as sourced from 53a.



See post 29 again. Where lines cross without a dot (solid or hollow) there is no connection.

As stated by @windforfun - - - some of the switch notation is seriously confusing and/or lacking in clarity even to those of us that use schematics heavily.

I'll stand corrected if you measure something different. When ever I do this on my car, I do as much "verification" as I can with a DMM that the switch is operating the way I see it on the schematic. I'm not always right.

Here is the full current waterfall for that ground circuit. Because it's a solid line and doesn't have a color code or wire gauge, I assume that means that column pull switch is actually sourced from a chassis ground between the steering column and the body.

[bbrock]

No -- that brown / black doesn't get ground though the green/white.

Here is where the brown/black gets ground -- it's coming though the NC (normally closed) connection of the pull switch. When the switch is pulled this ground (yellow arrows) is interrupted and 12v is applied as sourced from 53a.

What I meant about not being able to tell the pathway where that push switch is being grounded. That thin black line where your arrow is pointing up is doesn't say much to me other than it is grounded. Maybe through the little copper tab that gets lost on the switch cluster? I don't remember what stops working when that goes missing. I was thinking it was the horn but maybe more grounds through there.

Anyway, the DMM says this. Pull back the lever and you get 12v out of brwn/blk. Pull down on the lever and you get 0v and infinite Ohms to ground. That's really all I needed to figure out how to make the washer pump work the way I want and confirmed by testing with the wire connected and disconnected to the pump. Pretty simple.

All the rest is just satisfying curiosity.

[lesorubcheek]

Anyway, the DMM says this. Pull back the lever and you get 12v out of brwn/blk. Pull down on the lever and you get 0v and infinite Ohms to ground. That's really all I needed to figure out how to make the washer pump work the way I want and confirmed by testing with the wire connected and disconnected to the pump. Pretty simple.

All the rest is just satisfying curiosity.

This makes sense, I think. It's obviously a fact since you see it on the meter. So please see if this is correct.
1. When the wiper stalk is in positions 0, 1 or 2, the intermittent relay can receive +12V when the stalk is pulled back as has been explained previously via the black/brown wire connecting S1 of the switch to S of the relay.
2. When the stalk is in positions 0, 1 or 2,and the lever is not pulled back, the intermittent relay is receiving a ground at S via the black/brown wire.
3. When the stalk is in the J position, the relay at S is seeing an open circuit.

For the longest time item 3 is what wouldn't sink in, but finally I see where the relay has a +12v input on connector 15. Just kept thinking the relay must get a +12v input on S in order to work, but it appears the real power for the relay is through connector 15 and S is just a 3 state input, either ground +12v or open circuit. The logic then I guess would be that when S is ground, the relay remains off, if a +12v is seen, it activates for once or twice, then shuts off and when open circuit is at S, it activates using whatever time interval it's set up to cycle. I sure hope this is correct because I'm running out of Tylenol.

Dan