Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Cooling fan woodruff key, Crank is damaged
malcolm2
post Feb 25 2023, 06:44 AM
Post #1


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,747
Joined: 31-May 11
From: Nashville
Member No.: 13,139
Region Association: South East States



Have only run maybe 4 gallons of gas thru a new rebuiltengine. Ran on the bench and recently installed. My cooling fan came loose.

Woodruff key is damaged along with the slot in the crank where it sits. Hub too.

Is there a way to suitably repair the crank without total engine removal and teardown ?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies
Superhawk996
post Feb 25 2023, 12:05 PM
Post #2


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,024
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



First up - let’s talk about how this is designed.

The key is only there to align the fan to the crank so that timing marks are in proper location. The key isn’t there to resist any significant shear / torque force.

The fan hub is held to the crank by the taper and having sufficient clamp load on it to keep the hub in TIGHT interference around the whole taper. A taper like that can carry a lot of torque provided there is uniform contact around the whole diameter of the taper. This is the way many machine tools operate via taper fit (R8, CAT 40, Morse Taper, etc.)

There are two reasons yours came loose

1) you didn’t torque it properly and didn’t have enough clamp load when it was first installed to create a good interference fit in the taper.

2) your taper was damaged to some degree already with a high spot somewhere. Without proper interference around the whole taper, it can only carry a fraction of the torque it is designed to carry. Also it may begin to wobble on the high spot further accelerating its demise.

What to do?

If there is any chance of this being reliable, you need to ensure the taper doesn’t have a significant high spot. Either at the damaged key slot or elsewhere.

I would lap it and use some Prussian Blue to ensure that the taper is making contact everywhere and to correct it if needed.

Then reinstall using the proper torque with a torque wrench.

If they key slot is damaged so much that it won’t hold a key, JB weld or tacking welding the key aren’t going to help - you will have some variability in where your fan ends up in relation to the crank but it won’t be huge as long as there is a key there. This will cause some variability later on setting timing. Example: 30 degrees at the fan may only be 27 degrees or perhaps it could be 33 degrees at the crank. You get the idea. You can eventually find the sweet spot but there will be a little more trail and error setting timing.

Thread locker is useless. Once the taper has been properly installed onto the crank, the bolt technically doesn’t do much. It’s like a tie rod end. Once it is torqued intro the steering arm, you should (in theory) be able to remove the nut and throw it away. Of course no one does this - keeping the nut in place serves as a factor of safety to keep it from dropping out completely should it somehow loosen. It is for this reason that tie rods rarely come with castle nuts and cotter pins nowadays. Same principle in play here.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
malcolm2   Cooling fan woodruff key   Feb 25 2023, 06:44 AM
930cabman   Have only run maybe 4 gallons of gas thru a new r...   Feb 25 2023, 06:52 AM
malcolm2   I can't imagine that this will be JB Weld kind...   Feb 25 2023, 07:40 AM
malcolm2   moved the light and zoomed in.   Feb 25 2023, 07:41 AM
Bartlett 914   moved the light and zoomed in. It looks like t...   Feb 25 2023, 08:17 AM
porschetub   moved the light and zoomed in. Thats pretty se...   Feb 25 2023, 02:28 PM
malcolm2   RE: Cooling fan woodruff key   Feb 25 2023, 07:43 AM
barefoot   Just trial fit a new woodruff key it the slot to s...   Feb 25 2023, 07:57 AM
malcolm2   Just trial fit a new woodruff key it the slot to ...   Feb 25 2023, 08:04 AM
malcolm2   Yes, the pulley was loose. ALT belt vibrating lik...   Feb 25 2023, 08:27 AM
Dave97   I had the same thing happen, except the fan came l...   Feb 25 2023, 08:35 AM
malcolm2   I had the same thing happen, except the fan came ...   Feb 25 2023, 10:15 AM
mgphoto   New key tack welded to the crank. JB Weld could cr...   Feb 25 2023, 10:17 AM
malcolm2   New key tack welded to the crank. JB Weld could c...   Feb 25 2023, 11:09 AM
Superhawk996   First up - let’s talk about how this is designed...   Feb 25 2023, 12:05 PM
930cabman   I might dress down the material proud of the taper...   Feb 25 2023, 12:11 PM
Superhawk996   it does resist the pumping action of the fan Neg...   Feb 25 2023, 12:20 PM
malcolm2   As I did some lapping for about 45 minutes and cle...   Feb 25 2023, 03:37 PM
Superhawk996   Don’t worry about pits below the surface, make s...   Feb 25 2023, 05:08 PM
930cabman   Also get some prussian blue to ensure there is a h...   Feb 25 2023, 05:14 PM
blabla914   Superhawk has your back here. I'll add to his ...   Feb 25 2023, 05:24 PM
malcolm2   Amazon has let me down. I did purchase the Prussi...   Feb 26 2023, 08:20 AM
ClayPerrine   30+ years ago we lost the fan on Betty's 914 a...   Feb 26 2023, 09:33 AM
technicalninja   Amazon has let me down. I did purchase the Pruss...   Feb 26 2023, 10:21 AM
malcolm2   I remember lapping my Ski Nautique prop and using ...   Feb 26 2023, 11:49 AM
Superhawk996   I could see pictures just fine. That can’t be a...   Feb 26 2023, 11:59 AM
malcolm2   he called it MULTI-THOUSAND dollar prop, so yes. ...   Feb 26 2023, 12:53 PM
porschetub   he called it MULTI-THOUSAND dollar prop, so yes. ...   Feb 27 2023, 05:11 PM
bkrantz   he called it MULTI-THOUSAND dollar prop, so yes....   Feb 27 2023, 08:33 PM
ClayPerrine   [quote name='porschetub' post='3061365' date='Feb...   Feb 28 2023, 07:15 AM
Superhawk996   Take a 1 inch wide strip of all-mag about 3 inche...   Feb 28 2023, 08:29 AM
ClayPerrine   Take a 1 inch wide strip of all-mag about 3 inch...   Feb 28 2023, 09:42 AM
Superhawk996   That’s starting to look pretty good. Might lap ...   Feb 26 2023, 01:15 PM
Superhawk996   That’s starting to look pretty good. Might lap...   Feb 26 2023, 01:39 PM
Olympic 914   Looks like something that should be done on every ...   Feb 26 2023, 01:24 PM
malcolm2   Looks like something that should be done on every...   Feb 26 2023, 02:04 PM
930cabman   I would want to see at least 80 or 90% contact are...   Feb 27 2023, 06:36 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
3 User(s) are reading this topic (3 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30th June 2024 - 10:03 AM