Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> 2.0 Head Gasket delete?
torakki
post Jun 15 2024, 11:10 AM
Post #1


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 5-October 18
From: Nor Cal
Member No.: 22,545
Region Association: Northern California



I've read where it's a good idea to remove the head gaskets and re-assemble without them. Something about, they crush and cause an issue. Is there anything else you need to do or change, in their place? Like a different head design?
Thanks
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies
rick 918-S
post Jul 2 2024, 06:54 AM
Post #2


Hey nice rack! -Celette
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 20,681
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Now in Superior WI
Member No.: 43
Region Association: Northstar Region



Question:

The update states improvements were made but does not say what they were unless I missed it in my speed read. What was done to accommodate the change?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Jul 2 2024, 07:22 AM
Post #3


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,469
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Jul 2 2024, 08:54 AM) *

Question:

The update states improvements were made but does not say what they were unless I missed it in my speed read. What was done to accommodate the change?

Re-read, the stated actions are the improvements.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
rick 918-S
post Jul 2 2024, 09:05 PM
Post #4


Hey nice rack! -Celette
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 20,681
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Now in Superior WI
Member No.: 43
Region Association: Northstar Region



QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Jul 2 2024, 08:22 AM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Jul 2 2024, 08:54 AM) *

Question:

The update states improvements were made but does not say what they were unless I missed it in my speed read. What was done to accommodate the change?

Re-read, the stated actions are the improvements.



I re-read the stated actions. Just because the bulletin does not list the type IV does not mean it would not benefit from the upgrade as well. I was thinking there was some sort of a metallurgic change that our type IV's don't have therefore would be a negative if you tried it.

Type IV rods can be notched, Cylinders can be honed out for increased clearance, and the shims can take the place of the base gasket. Don't see the problem.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Jul 2 2024, 09:57 PM
Post #5


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,469
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Jul 2 2024, 11:05 PM) *



Type IV rods can be notched, Cylinders can be honed out for increased clearance, and the shims can take the place of the base gasket. Don't see the problem.


I tend to agree.

With respect to pistons: modern hypereutectic pistons will have their own special piston to cylinder clearances that will be determined by the piston suppliers. Forged pistons will have their own larger clearances vs hypereutectic so that #1 action on the bulletin can be taken with a grain of salt.

The other actions in the bulletin are focused on increasing heat transfer. First by the poor man’s oil squirter (notched Con-Rods) to get heat out of pistons and into the cylinder walls. Second, by eliminating the insulating effect of the cylinder base gasket ( paper) which gets changed to aluminum (due to thickness) but also because the aluminum allows better heat transfer from the cylinder into the case. Finally, by elimination of the head gasket so that the cylinder has a better heat transfer to the head.

With respect to cylinder to head sealing, Wonki nailed it. All the VW air cooled engines seal rather poorly when cold. When they come up to operating temperature they seal much better. Why?

The difference in thermal expansion is why. Aluminum is expanding much faster than the cast iron cylinders and the steel head bolts. As the head dimension grows but the steel studs grow much slower. This means, you get increased sealing the hotter things get up until studs break or pull out of the case (2.7L 911 sound familiar - cough - cough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) ever notice how Nickies (aluminum cylinders) require the use of (stronger) ARP head studs instead of OEM head studs. There you go.

Final thought: how many here have a Dyno and have done the development work & testing to argue this further than mere personal opinion or based on the results of onesie, twosie, engine builds with limited mileage accumulation? Gonna’ roll with Mr Raby on this one.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
torakki   2.0 Head Gasket delete?   Jun 15 2024, 11:10 AM
914Sixer   If you leave them out, lap your barrels in.   Jun 15 2024, 11:37 AM
rick 918-S   Just be sure the head mating surfaces are true and...   Jun 15 2024, 11:38 AM
technicalninja   Check deck height! The upper surface of the p...   Jun 15 2024, 12:18 PM
ClayPerrine   Ok... I am going to climb up on my soapbox here......   Jun 15 2024, 02:16 PM
930cabman   I built my 2056 a couple years ago (still running ...   Jun 15 2024, 02:52 PM
ClayPerrine   I do recall reading the factory recommended to e...   Jun 15 2024, 03:21 PM
930cabman   I do recall reading the factory recommended to ...   Jun 15 2024, 04:15 PM
rick 918-S   Since Clay responded I need to clarify my post. St...   Jun 15 2024, 03:11 PM
technicalninja   Ok... I am going to climb up on my soapbox here.....   Jun 15 2024, 03:18 PM
ClayPerrine   P.S. [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index...   Jun 15 2024, 03:25 PM
emerygt350   I kept them out of my 2056 build. I ended up only...   Jun 15 2024, 03:19 PM
torakki   OK, way more responses than I thought and way more...   Jun 16 2024, 02:12 PM
930cabman   OK, way more responses than I thought and way mor...   Jun 16 2024, 05:27 PM
emerygt350   Is it still injected? D-jet? I would be looking t...   Jun 16 2024, 02:48 PM
914werke   All it took for me was one engine tear down exposi...   Jun 16 2024, 03:49 PM
ClayPerrine   (& blessed by the manufacture) I still ...   Jun 16 2024, 08:41 PM
r_towle   I don’t believe a leak at the head/cylinder woul...   Jun 16 2024, 04:36 PM
r_towle   This site may help if diagnosing djet https://mem...   Jun 16 2024, 04:38 PM
emerygt350   I don't think the two are associated (I don...   Jun 16 2024, 05:47 PM
914Sixer   I used the gasket on my 2056.   Jun 16 2024, 07:08 PM
emerygt350   I've read where it's a good idea to remov...   Jun 17 2024, 05:36 AM
ClayPerrine   [quote name='torakki' post='3151083' date='Jun 15...   Jun 17 2024, 09:05 AM
emerygt350   Dbl post   Jun 17 2024, 05:37 AM
914werke   [quote name='emerygt350' post='3151350' date='Jun...   Jun 17 2024, 11:04 AM
914werke   (& blessed by the manufacture) I still wan...   Jun 17 2024, 11:12 AM
ClayPerrine   Look. . this is real simple. Do what you want wi...   Jun 17 2024, 11:34 AM
Nogoodwithusernames   Pardon my lack of knowledge in this area, but what...   Jun 17 2024, 11:52 AM
mmichalik   :popcorn:   Jun 17 2024, 12:35 PM
930cabman   Possible/probable the folks at Porsche never had a...   Jun 17 2024, 01:39 PM
thomasotten   Not wanting to enter a debate that clearly needs a...   Jun 17 2024, 06:39 PM
Al Meredith   I stayed up last night reading a bunch of articles...   Jun 18 2024, 10:57 AM
Jake Raby   I stayed up last night reading a bunch of article...   Jun 30 2024, 10:08 AM
ClayPerrine   I stayed up last night reading a bunch of articl...   Jun 30 2024, 05:15 PM
emerygt350   [quote name='Jake Raby' post='3153973' date='Jun ...   Jun 30 2024, 05:43 PM
914werke   BTW #5 should be performed on ALL T4 builds (usin...   Jun 18 2024, 12:11 PM
930cabman   BTW #5 should be performed on ALL T4 builds (usi...   Jun 18 2024, 12:17 PM
914werke   correct. Poor mans oil squirter!   Jun 18 2024, 12:18 PM
rick 918-S   Question: The update states improvements were mad...   Jul 2 2024, 06:54 AM
Superhawk996   Question: The update states improvements were ma...   Jul 2 2024, 07:22 AM
rick 918-S   Question: The update states improvements were m...   Jul 2 2024, 09:05 PM
Superhawk996   Type IV rods can be notched, Cylinders can be h...   Jul 2 2024, 09:57 PM
Nogoodwithusernames   Some various ponderings on this topic. -So we hav...   Jul 2 2024, 09:29 AM
930cabman   Some various ponderings on this topic. -So we ha...   Jul 2 2024, 05:09 PM
wonkipop   Some various ponderings on this topic. -So we ha...   Jul 2 2024, 05:28 PM
930cabman   :agree: All of us need to thank Jake for his gen...   Jul 3 2024, 10:44 AM
Jake Raby   This isn't about choosing sides. I can't b...   Jul 4 2024, 01:30 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
9 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th September 2024 - 07:25 PM