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> Is this the dreaded 914 vapor lock?, Asking for your ideas and thoughts
Artfrombama
post Jul 14 2024, 05:04 PM
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Drove my 914 to a PCA function yesterday morning, 93f and humid.
After driving on the interstate at 70-75mph for around 45 miles I exited and the motor died. I had enough momentum and coasted into a gas station/convenience store where I topped off the tank and tried to restart the car, no luck. The car would fire, run a few seconds and die then refused to re-start for another 10-15 minutes then the same scenario again. No tools to diagnose or repair.
While waiting on AAA for three hours (another story) I would occasionally try to start the car with the same results.

Today, car started normally, runs normally.

1974 L-jet, original three bung fuel pump, original location.
500 miles on new tank, sock, filter, ss lines.
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Chris914n6
post Jul 14 2024, 10:19 PM
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The 3-port recirculates fuel around the engine, instead of putting it back into the tank. So yes, vapor lock happens, because the fuel gets too hot.

You need to wrap the pump so it doesn't get hot air blown on it, from the heat exchanger/heater outlet and the engine cooling air.
It wouldn't hurt to insulate the fuel lines that cross over the engine.
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wonkipop
post Jul 14 2024, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jul 14 2024, 10:19 PM) *

The 3-port recirculates fuel around the engine, instead of putting it back into the tank. So yes, vapor lock happens, because the fuel gets too hot.

You need to wrap the pump so it doesn't get hot air blown on it, from the heat exchanger/heater outlet and the engine cooling air.
It wouldn't hurt to insulate the fuel lines that cross over the engine.


chris, thats not entirely true as i understand them to work.

there is a T junction off the return line to the tank which is coming from the fuel pressure regulator. that T branches to the third port. the regulator normally relieves the pressure first if it exceeds 35 psi (that figure of 35 is specific to the L jets). if for any reason fuel pressure builds in the injector circuit and the FPR does not relieve it the third port on the original style 3 port pump then relieves pressure. it often kicks in at around 60-70 psi. this travels down the line to the T and returns to the fuel tank.

the fuel is fully circulating back to the tank and is not restricted to circulating in the high pressure fuel line.

i have heard there is also a role that third port plays in relieving pulses in the fuel but by and large it does what i describe above.

modern dual port turbine pumps pressure relieve completely differently.
they blow the excessive pressure back down the supply line to the tank.
even some of the later versions of roller cell pumps relieved excess pressure back through the supply line. i've seen those versions often fitted to mercedes benz cars of approx same era as the 914s.

which does bring up an interesting thought i just had for @artfrombama
the L jets are interesting in that when you back off the throttle the fuel pressure relief valve is designed to release pressure and drop it from the more normal operating pressure of 35 psi to 28 psi (give or take a few psi either side of both values).
its vacuum operated off the intake plenum to to do this. they are a little different to the D jet set up which i believe operates only at 28 psi and does things differently.

a possibility may also be a fuel pressure regulator valve that is misbehaving.
i'm thinking of how its activated when you came off throttle on to the exit ramp.
did it somehow fail or stick. and then fuel pressure could not be built up in the injector ring.

dunno. its an interesting one.

and really with vapor lock (which i have experienced) it comes good inside of 3 hours.
so i don't think its all down to vapor lock. might be part of it. but doesn't feel like the whole story.
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Chris914n6
post Jul 15 2024, 12:48 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Jul 14 2024, 10:04 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jul 14 2024, 10:19 PM) *

The 3-port recirculates fuel around the engine, instead of putting it back into the tank. So yes, vapor lock happens, because the fuel gets too hot.

You need to wrap the pump so it doesn't get hot air blown on it, from the heat exchanger/heater outlet and the engine cooling air.
It wouldn't hurt to insulate the fuel lines that cross over the engine.


chris, thats not entirely true as i understand them to work.

Your understanding of fluid pumps is off. Too much typing to explain why.

OP issue could be something other than vapor lock. But it is possible that the volume of fuel consumed at speed (adding cool tank gas) exceeded the threshold for vapor lock but at idle conditions were ideal.

A pressure gauge would answer some questions the next time it happens.
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Posts in this topic
Artfrombama   Is this the dreaded 914 vapor lock?   Jul 14 2024, 05:04 PM
emerygt350   Yep, sounds like vapor lock to me. I have mine al...   Jul 14 2024, 06:18 PM
Artfrombama   Yep, sounds like vapor lock to me. I have mine a...   Jul 14 2024, 07:20 PM
wonkipop   [quote name='emerygt350' post='3156717' date='Jul...   Jul 14 2024, 07:51 PM
GregAmy   With a recirculating fuel system...can a 914 **rea...   Jul 14 2024, 07:43 PM
wonkipop   With a recirculating fuel system...can a 914 **re...   Jul 14 2024, 07:59 PM
JamesM   With a recirculating fuel system...can a 914 **re...   Jul 16 2024, 12:11 AM
ClayPerrine   If it boils just in the fuel rail lines you can ...   Jul 16 2024, 08:23 AM
wonkipop   another factor in USA cars is the ethanol content ...   Jul 14 2024, 08:08 PM
bkrantz   Could the pump itself be causing at least part of ...   Jul 14 2024, 09:00 PM
wonkipop   Could the pump itself be causing at least part of...   Jul 14 2024, 09:53 PM
wonkipop   art this is what i have got on hot start, runs th...   Jul 14 2024, 10:01 PM
Artfrombama   @wonkipop , [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2...   Jul 14 2024, 10:09 PM
Chris914n6   The 3-port recirculates fuel around the engine, in...   Jul 14 2024, 10:19 PM
wonkipop   The 3-port recirculates fuel around the engine, i...   Jul 14 2024, 11:04 PM
Chris914n6   The 3-port recirculates fuel around the engine, ...   Jul 15 2024, 12:48 PM
wonkipop   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3156755' date='Jul 1...   Jul 15 2024, 05:29 PM
Artfrombama   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3156755' date='Jul ...   Jul 15 2024, 06:34 PM
wonkipop   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3156901' date='Jul 1...   Jul 15 2024, 06:42 PM
wonkipop   another tip @artfrombama that came to mind - jus...   Jul 15 2024, 01:10 AM
emerygt350   I have found that as long as the fuel is vapor the...   Jul 15 2024, 04:56 AM
emerygt350   As a side note too, the original heat wrap was tha...   Jul 15 2024, 04:58 AM
ClayPerrine   Here is what I would do to diagnose it. Get a mec...   Jul 15 2024, 06:12 AM
bkrantz   Here is what I would do to diagnose it. Get a me...   Jul 15 2024, 07:45 PM
StarBear   Had recurring vapor lock in my 74 1.8 L-Jet in the...   Jul 15 2024, 06:53 AM
Superhawk996   There are a lot of assumptions built in to this th...   Jul 15 2024, 07:46 AM
Artfrombama   This is a head scratcher for sure! I was read...   Jul 15 2024, 07:48 AM
Superhawk996   This is a head scratcher for sure! I was rea...   Jul 15 2024, 07:58 AM
ClayPerrine   This is a head scratcher for sure! I was rea...   Jul 15 2024, 10:14 AM
Shivers   I had a leak develop under the fuel tank. Pulled t...   Jul 15 2024, 08:16 AM
Artfrombama   I had a leak develop under the fuel tank. Pulled ...   Aug 7 2024, 01:09 AM
wonkipop   [quote name='Shivers' post='3156816' date='Jul 15...   Aug 7 2024, 03:56 AM
Artfrombama   [quote name='Shivers' post='3156816' date='Jul 1...   Aug 7 2024, 02:16 PM
Superhawk996   On the 3 port pump the port labeled R isn’t flow...   Jul 15 2024, 01:51 PM
Superhawk996   Here is the cutaway of the 3 ports as well as the ...   Jul 15 2024, 02:07 PM
Artfrombama   Checked fuel pressure 23 psi regulated, regulator...   Jul 15 2024, 03:14 PM
wonkipop   Checked fuel pressure 23 psi regulated, regulato...   Jul 15 2024, 06:22 PM
wonkipop   so let me get this right with the test you did. yo...   Jul 15 2024, 07:15 PM
Artfrombama   so let me get this right with the test you did. y...   Jul 15 2024, 09:52 PM
wonkipop   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3156933' date='Jul 1...   Jul 15 2024, 10:53 PM
Artfrombama   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3156933' date='Jul ...   Jul 16 2024, 07:06 PM
wonkipop   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3156960' date='Jul 1...   Jul 16 2024, 07:44 PM
Artfrombama   Discovered the temp sensor in the RH head became d...   Jul 23 2024, 04:26 PM
wonkipop   Discovered the temp sensor in the RH head became ...   Jul 23 2024, 05:00 PM
emerygt350   Discovered the temp sensor in the RH head became...   Jul 23 2024, 05:50 PM
Artfrombama   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3158099' date='Jul 2...   Jul 23 2024, 06:03 PM
emerygt350   [quote name='wonkipop' post='3158099' date='Jul ...   Jul 23 2024, 06:57 PM
Artfrombama   [quote name='Artfrombama' post='3158110' date='Ju...   Jul 23 2024, 07:08 PM
ClayPerrine   Yes, a pair of Webers were starting to look good...   Jul 24 2024, 03:00 PM
wonkipop   Yes, a pair of Webers were starting to look good...   Jul 24 2024, 06:16 PM
Artfrombama   [quote name='ClayPerrine' post='3158232' date='Ju...   Jul 24 2024, 07:48 PM
JeffBowlsby   A pin-out diagram would be helpful in eliminatin...   Jul 25 2024, 07:23 AM
ClayPerrine   A pin-out diagram would be helpful in eliminatin...   Jul 25 2024, 10:04 AM
JeffBowlsby   The factory service bulletin to address fuel vapor...   Jul 24 2024, 06:00 PM
Superhawk996   The temp sensor in the head - TS2, commonly called...   Jul 24 2024, 09:54 PM
Artfrombama   The temp sensor in the head - TS2, commonly calle...   Jul 25 2024, 08:29 PM
wonkipop   CHT test for the L jet from factory manual. tricky...   Jul 24 2024, 11:42 PM
ClayPerrine   The L-Jet wiring is now more than 50 years old, an...   Jul 25 2024, 05:41 AM
wonkipop   @ArtfromBama ah yeah, thats probably right for t...   Jul 25 2024, 08:45 PM
Artfrombama   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...   Jul 25 2024, 09:04 PM
JeffBowlsby   The original L-Jet dual cantilever spring (4 prong...   Jul 25 2024, 10:05 PM
StarBear   I love happy endings! :D   Aug 7 2024, 05:30 AM


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