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> Project 3.6 RS Thread, Getting the bugs out and oil line leak
Steve
post Feb 5 2024, 10:57 AM
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After 23 years of service out of my 3.2, I decided to buy a used 1995 3.6 from LA Dismantler with 110k miles on it. I paid $25k for the motor, Plus an additional $3k from PMS for conversion parts. Got this motor home and two of the cylinders had bad leak down from the exhaust valves. Lots of goofy issues with 3.6 motors. They have an electric smog pump which clogs the SAI passages in the exhaust valves. Sometimes you can turn the engine over with compressed air through the spark plug openings and use a rubber mallet on the exhaust valves to clear it out. This did not work for me, so I sent my motor out to get a top end overhaul, bigger valves and RS Cams.
This will not be an RS spec motor. RS Spec is 3.8 liters, bigger valves, different injection, etc. My motor is just a 1995 993 motor with one size bigger valves, RS cams and steve wong chip. I asked PMS about the 3.8 slip ins and they said their is very little noticeable difference between the two and not worth it unless your changing the P&C's anyway.

LA Dismantler lessons learned:
-Get a warranty in writing
-Do a leak down at their location before buying the motor.
I did neither and they came up with a ton of excuses not to help me.
This is also true for any wrecking yard. My Euro 3.2 also came from a wrecking yard with no warranty, but that motor was flawless.

This will probably be a very slow progress thread. I still work full time and have a family. I bought this motor two years ago and finally pulled the 3.2 a couple of weeks ago. I sold the 3.2 to the guy that did the top end overhaul on my 3.6. On the 3.2, two of the cylinders had poor leak down, due to weak rings. The motor ran great before I pulled it and all the spark plugs looked the same. So I was very surprised about the leak down results. Besides spending $4500 to PMS three years ago to reseal this engine, it has never been apart. The PMS reseal was due to the normal oil leaks around the cam chain housings and other areas. Who knows how many miles were on it. The guy who bought it said the rings are weak and to spray WD40 in the cylinders. Sure enough it brought the leak down, from 30% down to 3% on one cylinder and from 10% down to 5% on the other. He plans on doing a top end overhaul on it and flipping it or putting it in one of his 914's.

I will add pictures and more info as time goes on.
Old Euro 3.2 motor
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Used 3.6 motor
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Steve
post Oct 28 2024, 09:14 AM
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Still won't start, but I am learning a lot about this fuel injection.

Replaced the Speed Sensor, still won't start. Still no ground from ECU to actuate the Fuel pump side of the DME relay. I can manually connect pin 36 from the ECU to ground to actuate the DME Relay, I then connected pin 3 from the ECU to ground to actuate the fuel pump side of the DME Relay. I also put pig tails on the new speed sensor so I could switch the wires around. I still get the correct sine wave and +5VAC at the ECU.

At this point, I called up the ECU doctor in Florida to test out my ECU. They also do repairs if they find anything wrong. They should get the ECU some time this week.

Also called up James at PMS and dug up some more info on the Web for things to check out / verify:

1. Does the first stage of the DME relay turn on when you turn the switch to ON
Yes!
2. Do you see the +12V with the ignition in ON at both screw terminals of the coils
Did not test this yet. I will wait until I get the ECU back
3. Does the second stage of the DME relay switch on when you crank?
No! This is usually caused by the speed sensor....
4. Continuous keyed 12vdc to PMS Harness, not accessories / relay / cigarette lighter. Must have power supplied to DME while starting.
Yes, verified I get continuous ignition +12v while starting.
5. ECU ground through cable
No. I will add this, but the ECU is bolted to the firewall. Verified I am getting a good ground from the cover to the chassis. Plus, the ground for the ignition side of the DME relay is working fine through the ECU. My 3.2 ECU was also bolted to the firewall with no issues.
6. Verify fuel pressure and hoses (return versus pressure)
Duh.. I did have these reversed. Easy fix. I also bought a harbor freight fuel pump / injection pressure gauge. Only $40.00 with no coupon. Screwed right onto fuel rail with no adapters. I am getting around 55 PSI from my 044 fuel pump.
7. Serial # on harness, could be a bad harness. There was a recall for this. Early 993 harnesses were known to short out, catch fire, etc.
Verified I have the new replacement harness.
8. Verify voltage is the same at the battery as the ECU, DME Relay and Ignition
Done! No issues
9. Does the resonance flap actuator click when you turn the ignition to ON?
Still need to check this one. I will wait until I get the ECU back.
10. Also verified by part number that I have an early ECU which has no drive block, even though my Steve Wong chip should have it disabled anyway.

On another note.. I am not content with the PMS cable. Yes it works, but I had to remove the stop under the pedal and add the Home Depot spacer at the firewall to get it to work. I would love to get the same pedal range I had before with the 3.2 bell crank and 914-6 throttle cable. Instant G https://www.instant-g.com/products/36-conve...ts-and-options/ sells a special extended bell crank on the trans that connects to the stock 914-6 throttle cable. It then uses a special cable from the bell crank to the motor. I ordered the kit. I will try it out after I get the engine running. Note that Paul (Excellence 3.6 914 article) raised the ball on the pedal actuator that the cable connects to get the correct range back. He cut it off, raised it and welded it back on.. The modified bell crank should be a bolt on solution.
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Posts in this topic
Steve   Project 3.6 RS Thread   Feb 5 2024, 10:57 AM
Steve   Got stripped motor back from the top end overhaul....   Feb 5 2024, 10:57 AM
Root_Werks   Be interesting to get your take on a 3.2 vs. 3.6. ...   Feb 5 2024, 11:20 AM
Steve   Be interesting to get your take on a 3.2 vs. 3.6....   Feb 5 2024, 11:55 AM
Cairo94507   Looking forward to seeing this progress as I am st...   Feb 5 2024, 11:56 AM
SirAndy   I paid $25k out of my 401k for this motor. P...   Feb 5 2024, 01:02 PM
Steve   [quote name='Steve' post='3127183' date='Feb 5 20...   Feb 5 2024, 01:14 PM
NARP74   Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. They...   Feb 5 2024, 02:10 PM
mepstein   Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. The...   Feb 5 2024, 02:18 PM
Steve   Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. Th...   Feb 5 2024, 02:31 PM
Root_Werks   Steve, If you were looking for an option to run h...   Feb 6 2024, 11:19 AM
Steve   Steve, If you were looking for an option to run ...   Feb 6 2024, 01:47 PM
mepstein   [quote name='Root_Werks' post='3127351' date='Feb...   Feb 6 2024, 02:25 PM
ClayPerrine   [quote name='Root_Werks' post='3127351' date='Fe...   Feb 7 2024, 06:51 AM
Steve   [quote name='mepstein' post='3127408' date='Feb 6...   Feb 7 2024, 09:31 AM
ClayPerrine   [quote name='mepstein' post='3127408' date='Feb ...   Feb 7 2024, 09:39 AM
Bucci   [quote name='mepstein' post='3127408' date='Feb 6...   Feb 7 2024, 10:52 PM
ClayPerrine   [quote name='mepstein' post='3127408' date='Feb ...   Feb 8 2024, 01:38 PM
mepstein   We go the opposite on our performance 3.6-4.0 buil...   Feb 6 2024, 12:26 PM
Justinp71   After 23 years of service out of my 3.2, I decide...   Feb 6 2024, 11:40 PM
Lucky9146   Glad you are starting Steve, will be watching and ...   Feb 7 2024, 09:57 PM
eric9144   :popcorn:   Feb 8 2024, 01:31 PM
Steve   :popcorn: :headbanger: You totally lucked out ...   Feb 8 2024, 04:14 PM
kid914   :beer2: :shades2:   Feb 8 2024, 04:25 PM
eric9144   You totally lucked out getting one already done f...   Feb 12 2024, 12:58 PM
Steve   I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut piec...   Mar 17 2024, 06:43 PM
Steve   I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut pie...   Mar 28 2024, 09:46 AM
Cairo94507   @Steve - Hi Steve, Very glad to see you moving fo...   Mar 18 2024, 06:27 AM
Steve   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...   Mar 18 2024, 08:45 AM
Cairo94507   @Steve Hi Steve - I have a set of the 993 tins a...   Mar 18 2024, 09:07 AM
Steve   [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s...   Mar 18 2024, 09:30 AM
Cairo94507   @Steve - Good to know- we shall see how it works ...   Mar 18 2024, 09:34 AM
ClayPerrine   I did the same thing when installing my 4.0 motor....   Mar 20 2024, 02:18 PM
Steve   One week at a time. I can’t get to the rear tin...   Mar 26 2024, 10:48 AM
ClayPerrine   The motor mount is a Rich Johnson mount that Otto...   Mar 27 2024, 03:21 PM
Cairo94507   :popcorn: :beer2:   Mar 27 2024, 08:39 AM
Steve   @ClayPerrine the rich johnson mount bolted right ...   Mar 27 2024, 04:00 PM
SirAndy   [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s...   Mar 27 2024, 05:06 PM
ClayPerrine   [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s...   Mar 28 2024, 02:18 AM
Steve   [quote name='Steve' post='3136291' date='Mar 27 2...   Mar 28 2024, 08:10 AM
r_towle   Amazing creativity and comradery here on the 914wo...   Mar 28 2024, 08:55 PM
Cairo94507   This is the absolute best car site ever. I have h...   Mar 29 2024, 08:33 AM
Steve   This is the absolute best car site ever. I have ...   Mar 29 2024, 08:57 AM
Steve   Slowly but surely. Wired up Alternator and mounte...   Apr 1 2024, 09:32 AM
SirAndy   ... Also connected up the spark plugs and coils wi...   Apr 1 2024, 11:38 AM
Steve   ... Also connected up the spark plugs and coils w...   Apr 1 2024, 01:27 PM
Cairo94507   That looks nice Steve. :beer2:   Apr 1 2024, 11:23 AM
burton73   @Steve I just sent you a PM Best Bob B   Apr 1 2024, 02:15 PM
Cairo94507   @SirAndy - Note to self. :D   Apr 1 2024, 02:21 PM
Steve   Not much progress. Caught Covid, dog ate my homew...   Apr 22 2024, 12:17 PM
mepstein   They always crack. Luckily they are pretty cheap.   Apr 22 2024, 12:33 PM
Steve   Something else I read on Pelican. If the 3.6 came...   Apr 22 2024, 01:02 PM
rick 918-S   Nice detail. Seems like there are several hot rods...   Apr 23 2024, 09:58 AM
Steve   Plumbed the idle control valve into the new PMS 3....   May 4 2024, 05:57 PM
Cairo94507   Looking good Steve; I appreciate the photos to kee...   May 5 2024, 06:55 AM
Steve   @sirandy [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/...   May 5 2024, 07:48 AM
SirAndy   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...   May 5 2024, 10:28 AM
Cairo94507   :popcorn: :beer2:   May 5 2024, 08:49 AM
SirAndy   You can sort of see where it all ended up here: h...   May 5 2024, 10:35 AM
SirAndy   And this shows you where my air filter ends up: h...   May 5 2024, 10:37 AM
SirAndy   I think that short 90 degree bend piece between th...   May 5 2024, 10:40 AM
Steve   :beer2: Thanks @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs...   May 5 2024, 11:39 AM
Cairo94507   @SirAndy and [b]@[url=http://www.914world.com/bb...   May 5 2024, 02:21 PM
Steve   @sirandy looks like you added another 45 degree e...   May 5 2024, 03:38 PM
SirAndy   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...   May 5 2024, 05:11 PM
Steve   [quote name='Steve' post='3143523' date='May 5 20...   May 5 2024, 05:44 PM
ClayPerrine   I did the same thing. I cut the two tubes apart s...   May 5 2024, 07:36 PM
Steve   I did the same thing. I cut the two tubes apart ...   May 5 2024, 10:06 PM
Steve   Idle control valve connected from the bottom of th...   May 6 2024, 08:45 PM
Steve   While I am waiting for my tin to come back from po...   Jun 3 2024, 01:45 PM
East coaster   I remember doing this on my 3.6, it’s really not...   Jun 3 2024, 05:02 PM
Steve   Hard to find time for this project, but getting cl...   Aug 23 2024, 10:41 AM
Steve   Hard to find time for this project, but getting c...   Aug 25 2024, 07:57 AM
Cairo94507   @Steve Very exciting; looking forward to seeing ...   Aug 23 2024, 11:10 AM
Lucky9146   So glad to hear it is moving forward! Rooting...   Aug 23 2024, 09:34 PM
Cairo94507   I agree; but the PMS harness is not inexpensive. ...   Aug 25 2024, 01:10 PM
Steve   It’s always something.. I had to separate the 91...   Aug 29 2024, 08:01 AM
Cairo94507   Damn, I wish I was down in LA to lend a hand. Qui...   Aug 29 2024, 09:53 AM
Steve   Damn, I wish I was down in LA to lend a hand. Qu...   Aug 29 2024, 10:37 AM
Steve   Getting close. Drive train in car. Oil line leak...   Sep 13 2024, 10:59 AM
Cairo94507   :popcorn: :beer2:   Sep 14 2024, 06:58 AM
Steve   Welds too thick on the MSDS 1 3/4” headers. PIA...   Sep 16 2024, 10:25 AM
Steve   Here’s my Home Depot Motorsports solution to tak...   Sep 20 2024, 01:51 PM
Cairo94507   Nice :trophy:   Sep 20 2024, 02:40 PM
Steve   Finally semi got the car together, but it won’t ...   Sep 23 2024, 06:40 AM
ClayPerrine   Finally semi got the car together, but it won’t...   Oct 1 2024, 02:46 PM
Steve   Finally semi got the car together, but it won’...   Oct 1 2024, 03:43 PM
Steve   Muffler hanger fixed and I am now getting full thr...   Oct 1 2024, 02:11 PM
Cairo94507   I would swap it for the hell of it and see if that...   Oct 1 2024, 04:02 PM
Steve   I would swap it for the hell of it and see if tha...   Oct 1 2024, 07:44 PM
Steve   Still won't start, but I am learning a lot abo...   Oct 28 2024, 09:14 AM
Cairo94507   Man, I know what you are going through and I hope ...   Oct 28 2024, 09:38 AM
Jgilliam914   Steve!!! Geez maybe I should be more a...   Nov 1 2024, 09:53 AM
Steve   Finally running!! Love the RS cams at idl...   Nov 11 2024, 04:02 PM
Cairo94507   @Steve - Congratulations man; I bet those RS cams...   Nov 11 2024, 04:33 PM
Steve   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...   Nov 11 2024, 05:10 PM
Montreal914   Congratulations!! :trophy: :driving:   Nov 11 2024, 05:29 PM
TMM914   Congrats……..914 stuff…the lows are very low....   Nov 12 2024, 07:36 AM
Steve   Congrats……..914 stuff…the lows are very low...   Nov 12 2024, 08:45 AM
76-914   Congrats Steve. That thing should be quick now...   Nov 12 2024, 05:20 PM
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