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> a technical discussion, engine efficiency
r_towle
post Aug 15 2005, 08:27 PM
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so, I have been thinking (not always a good thing)
If an engine is basically an air pump, and the objective is to make it as close to 100 percent efficient, why is the exhaust valve so much smaller than the intake valve?

Forget emmisions, forget fuel delivery, just want to understand why this is so...it is so on most engines...

Rich
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lapuwali
post Aug 16 2005, 12:46 PM
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The cam in the stock engine was chosen more for emissions reasons than power reasons, so it's unnaturally restricted.

There are two problems with using D-Jet with a wild cam. One is that wild cams set up substantial intake pulses in the intake tract, which cause the manifold pressure to fluctuate wildly at small throttle settings. You'd have a very lumpy idle and very poor drivability at or near cruise. You can fix this to some extent by using a mechanical damper (some people use a fuel filter, others use a small restrictor in the vacuum line), at the cost of response. The other problem is the MPS isn't actually measuring airflow. It's estimating airflow based on manifold pressure, air temp, and engine speed.

Any engine (or air pump) does not pump with 100% efficiency. When the intake valves close, the charge pressure will be some percentage of one atmosphere (the volumetric efficiency, or VE). The actual amount will vary based on how far the throttle is open, the air pressure outside, the engine speed, the cam timing, the valve sizes, and the efficiency of the ports. The VE curve will be pretty much fixed for a given engine, so if you know some of the outside parameters and the VE curve, you can estimate airflow, and thus how much fuel you'll need.

Putting in a wilder cam, or cleaning up the ports, or installing bigger valves, or making the engine bigger, will change the VE curve. So, while you still know manifold pressure and engine speed, the VE curve in the D-Jet ECU is no longer correct, so the right amount of fuel isn't delivered. If you can change the VE curve programmed into the ECU, you can adjust this for the new engine.

Note that L-Jet doesn't have this problem, because it measures airflow directly. Thus, it's possible to install a hotter cam in an L-Jet engine and it will work. There's still a potential limit here, as the intake pulsations can confuse the L-Jet airflow meter, so very wild cams can't be used with L-Jet. You can install L-Jet on a bigger engine and it should work just fine. The limit here is the size and airflow capacity of the airflow meter itself.
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r_towle   a technical discussion   Aug 15 2005, 08:27 PM
michel richard   Cause on the exaust stroke there's a hard pist...   Aug 15 2005, 08:49 PM
r_towle   I thought that there is a vacuum sucking the mixtu...   Aug 15 2005, 09:29 PM
Jake Raby   ......... Because that about 20% of the air fuel m...   Aug 15 2005, 09:38 PM
r_towle   thanx for that reply Jake...as always you get to t...   Aug 15 2005, 09:40 PM
Jake Raby   Rich, The summary I made was very general... With...   Aug 15 2005, 09:43 PM
messix   the exhaust is at very high pressure after ignitio...   Aug 15 2005, 10:06 PM
lapuwali   If you look at typical cam timings, the exhaust va...   Aug 15 2005, 11:15 PM
Brett W   There is no vaccum in the cylinder. Nothing sucks...   Aug 16 2005, 12:22 AM
messix   i guess that vacuum assist power brakes don't ...   Aug 16 2005, 12:30 AM
r_towle   So, taking this knowledge, how can we apply it to ...   Aug 16 2005, 12:24 PM
lapuwali   The cam in the stock engine was chosen more for em...   Aug 16 2005, 12:46 PM
Sammy   Brett nailed it, there really isn't such thing...   Aug 16 2005, 04:30 PM
lapuwali   IMHO, Brett didn't "nail" anything. Both of y...   Aug 16 2005, 05:20 PM
lapuwali   Easy. Explain the technical terms first in layman...   Aug 16 2005, 06:41 PM
r_towle   <...   Aug 18 2005, 01:11 PM
Jaiden   Follow this link it will give you all the calculat...   Aug 18 2005, 01:32 PM
Mueller     Aug 18 2005, 02:10 PM
Brando   ...   Aug 18 2005, 06:58 PM
r_towle   On Ljet, You can increase the fuel pressure and ad...   Aug 18 2005, 07:11 PM
Brando   I understand your intentions Rich ... Mine are the...   Aug 18 2005, 07:19 PM
Mueller  
  Aug 18 2005, 07:23 PM
Brando   With a snap-on ride-along flexible gas analyzer. ...   Aug 18 2005, 07:27 PM
r_towle   I agree, ljet leans out in the higher rpm's. ...   Aug 18 2005, 07:35 PM
Mueller     Aug 18 2005, 07:38 PM
Al Meredith   I have read some on engine basics (no reguard to n...   Aug 18 2005, 08:07 PM
lapuwali   Bondo, you're correct up to a point. A given ...   Aug 18 2005, 08:21 PM
Mueller   ...   Aug 18 2005, 08:28 PM
lapuwali   ...   Aug 18 2005, 09:32 PM
Bleyseng   The other fly in the onintment for this 2.2L is th...   Aug 18 2005, 10:26 PM
Brett W   I don't get it, I mean I understand wanting to...   Aug 19 2005, 12:30 AM
dmenche914   generally engines are most efficient at wide open ...   Aug 19 2005, 02:26 AM
Bleyseng   <...   Aug 19 2005, 07:51 AM
Jake Raby  
  Aug 19 2005, 10:20 AM
Jake Raby   Double post- OOPS!   Aug 19 2005, 10:27 AM


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