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> Notes on brake "upgrades", What's worthwhile, what isn't.
lapuwali
post Mar 30 2006, 01:44 PM
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A bit bored this AM, so I'm rambling a little...

The 19mm MC used with otherwise stock 914/4 brakes: this results in a reduction in braking force for a given pedal force (forcing you to push harder to stop), and the actual amount is 16%. Some people like the "firm" feeling this provides, but it doesn't mean "better braking".

The 19mm MC used with BMW 320i calipers OR Porsche M calipers (same size). This results in a 12% decrease in pedal effort for a given braking force. So, you will feel an improvement, but it's not a very big one. The downsides to this swap is the bigger calipers are heavier (unsprung mass, too), and of course you're doing a lot of work for a pretty small gain. You're also doing nothing to help brake fade. You're likely making it more likely, since you can now load a bit more heat into the brakes more easily. Happily, this also won't have a huge effect on front/rear brake bias, however, since the overall effect is so small.

A 17mm MC used with M calipers would produce quite a big change in pedal force v. braking force: 33%. However, this MAY cause a problem in that the 17mm MC is small enough that you couldn't move enough fluid with it before you run out of pedal travel to fully press the pads against the rotors. You'd certainly have to push it a long way to get the brakes to come on at all, and the brakes would likely feel touchy and mushy, but powerful. Rather like overboosted power brakes...

btw, "17mm" and "19mm" (and "42mm" or "48mm" for caliper piston diameters) aren't strictly correct. Even in metric countries, brakes are actually specified in 1/16ths of an inch, so 17mm is really 11/16, or 17.45mm, and 19mm is really 3/4 (12/16) 19.05mm. 42mm is really 26/16", or 41.275mm, and 48mm is really 47.625mm. Germans just list the sizes in the nearest metric size, whereas the Japanese perversely use both systems: 10mm for some parts, and 0.50" for others, for example.
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woobn8r
post Nov 16 2007, 08:33 AM
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I have just acquired some nice alloy 4 piston Boxter brakes and adaptors for the 914 rear trailing arm and 3.5" 911 front struts.

They mate up with vented (and drilled) 911 rotors. This is an excellent conversion as it is way more brake than my 3.2 914 will ever need...even on the track.

The larger pad area (with greater potential clamping force) spreads out the load on a larger rotor surface which dissapates heat more quickly...the alloy caliper saves some unsprung weight to offset the increase in rotor weight....end result should be a brake system that requires less pedal pressure for equal clamping force...it will also have a greater potential range (which increases feel for modulation) and will dissapate heat more quickly eliminating any need for ducts, hoses or fans...oh, and as this system works at the lower end of it's potential, it should last longer as well.

The trick now is to choose a good pad that works in the right heat ranges without chewing up the rotors....and then set the bias.

Car not ready for a while...but I'll report when she is.
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Posts in this topic
lapuwali   Notes on brake "upgrades"   Mar 30 2006, 01:44 PM
tat2dphreak   better braking = rebuilt shea calipers, good bleed...   Mar 30 2006, 01:57 PM
john rogers   It appears your rambling is just a tad off, when i...   Mar 30 2006, 02:20 PM
lapuwali   http://www.914world.com/bbs2...   Mar 30 2006, 04:17 PM
rick 918-S   ...   Mar 30 2006, 10:07 PM
lapuwali   I haven't done the math, but my gut feeling is...   Mar 30 2006, 10:17 PM
turboman808   ...   Mar 30 2006, 10:30 PM
Dan (Almaden Valley)   That is why folks putting Dubs on their SUVs shoul...   Mar 30 2006, 10:53 PM
trekkor   I run rebuilt stock calipers with Porterfield r-4...   Mar 30 2006, 11:07 PM
racerx7   If all your doing is a single brake test from 60mp...   Mar 30 2006, 11:37 PM
Andyrew   Yup. I experienced this with my car at the wcc. B...   Mar 31 2006, 03:20 AM
Eric_Shea   Cool thread. Thought provoking stuff before my pr...   Mar 31 2006, 11:48 AM
jasons   This thread is hitting close to home right now. I...   Mar 31 2006, 12:25 PM
lapuwali   More rambling: When "improving" brakes, you can r...   Mar 31 2006, 12:26 PM
Headrage   I'm currently have the parts to go with a ...   Mar 31 2006, 12:30 PM
URY914   here are a couple of my thoughts on the subject: ...   Mar 31 2006, 12:43 PM
Eric_Shea   Paul, When I saw you name up on the list, that...   Mar 31 2006, 12:50 PM
lapuwali     Mar 31 2006, 12:51 PM
john rogers   More braking on the rear, that is what I thought w...   Mar 31 2006, 12:59 PM
URY914   ...   Mar 31 2006, 01:41 PM
jamara   A bit bored this AM, so I'm rambling a little...   Nov 15 2007, 05:38 PM
Dave_Darling   ... They are solid and not vented, but being a su...   Nov 15 2007, 09:13 PM
jamara   ... They are solid and not vented, but being a s...   Nov 16 2007, 01:59 PM
Racer   Worthy upgrades? Itmes that fight a brakes biggest...   Nov 15 2007, 09:03 PM
wobbletop   Speaking of airflow... does anyone know where the ...   Nov 15 2007, 10:37 PM
race914   Speaking of airflow... does anyone know where the...   Nov 16 2007, 09:02 AM
race914   [quote name='wobbletop' post='967228' date='Nov 1...   Nov 16 2007, 11:25 AM
Dr. Roger   The Hoover vacuum company... =) Kidding! Bu...   Nov 15 2007, 11:52 PM
Jeff Hail   I was once told by a famous race car engineer that...   Nov 15 2007, 11:59 PM
nsr-jamie   So what are some nice brake upgrades available tod...   Nov 16 2007, 07:55 AM
woobn8r   I have just acquired some nice alloy 4 piston Boxt...   Nov 16 2007, 08:33 AM
purple   Holy thread resurrection, Batman!   Nov 16 2007, 02:05 PM
jamara   Holy thread resurrection, Batman! Ha! Y...   Nov 16 2007, 03:03 PM
Eric_Shea   Drilled and slotted rotors are designed to vent ho...   Nov 16 2007, 06:18 PM
shoguneagle   Eric, You are right on when you say "Miss Ja...   Nov 16 2007, 06:31 PM
dinomium   Eric, You are right on when you say "Miss J...   Nov 19 2007, 01:49 PM


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