Subaru transmission installation, Now it's a reality!!! Options

[TonyAKAVW]

Wow, that looks great. Your kit of parts sounds really good too.

I really think the idea of having the radiator, engine and transmission in a single "power unit" is really great. I had tried to come up with a way to do it for my application, but there's just no way without adding a lot of extra metal. Having to disconnect the radiator for each engine drop will be annoying!

Cable shifting is probably the way to go. I decided to go with a cable shifter on my car beause of ground clearance issues and a general desire to get rid of the linkage and its associated problems. If the transmission is already suited for cable shifting, then its a snap.

-Tony

[Mueller]

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 10 2006, 07:00 PM)

Having to disconnect the radiator for each engine drop will be annoying!

how many times do you think you have to drop the motor?? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

I like that welded up flange-to-spline adatper...if you can machine it to remove the excess material and get it to look exactly how you want it, you could that to the machine shop for a better visual idea on the part......

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 10 2006, 06:08 PM)

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 10 2006, 07:00 PM) Having to disconnect the radiator for each engine drop will be annoying! how many times do you think you have to drop the motor?? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) I like that welded up flange-to-spline adatper...if you can machine it to remove the excess material and get it to look exactly how you want it, you could that to the machine shop for a better visual idea on the part......

I will be dropping the motor alot getting the kit done. I don't see it happening much after that - all work on the engine should be a snap in the car. I think the only time the engine would have to come out is for a rebuild or to pull the heads if you use studs.

If I still had access to the lathe at work I would have wasted some time making it pretty (I don't know how easily that thing would be to turn - it's pretty hard, my bandsaw cut it but it was not easy) .
I think I can just say "make it smooth here"

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 10 2006, 08:06 AM)

I cant use the kit since im doing an svx swap, cant you make an exception and sell me the flanges even if my name is jose and you dont like me (joke)? do it for the 914 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

All right - I give. I'll sell you set of flanges. The reason I don't really want to sell just the flanges is because they are at the core of this whole thing that I am working on.
Of course I don't have any yet.
Is the SVX engine mounting different than the 4 cyls?

[atsealevel914]

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 12 2006, 12:42 AM)

QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 10 2006, 08:06 AM) I cant use the kit since im doing an svx swap, cant you make an exception and sell me the flanges even if my name is jose and you dont like me (joke)? do it for the 914  :headbanger: All right - I give. I'll sell you set of flanges. The reason I don't really want to sell just the flanges is because they are at the core of this whole thing that I am working on. Of course I don't have any yet. Is the SVX engine mounting different than the 4 cyls?

Thanks, I really appreciate it, my 914 is really important to me. Ill check if the mounts are the same. since your kit mounts the four back from the firewall to accomodate the rad, your kit might work for the six if the mounts are the same.

[atsealevel914]

QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 13 2006, 07:46 AM)

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 12 2006, 12:42 AM) QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 10 2006, 08:06 AM) I cant use the kit since im doing an svx swap, cant you make an exception and sell me the flanges even if my name is jose and you dont like me (joke)? do it for the 914  :headbanger: All right - I give. I'll sell you set of flanges. The reason I don't really want to sell just the flanges is because they are at the core of this whole thing that I am working on. Of course I don't have any yet. Is the SVX engine mounting different than the 4 cyls? Thanks, I really appreciate it, my 914 is really important to me. Ill check if the mounts are the same. since your kit mounts the four back from the firewall to accomodate the rad, your kit might work for the six if the mounts are the same.

Just compared the ej22t to the eg33 and the ej22t motor mount fits on the svx block but not vise versa. The eg33(svx) mount has the same dimensions as the ej22t but has one more bolt hole which registers one the 3.3. So yes a mount designed for a four will bolt on to a six. Maybe I can use the cradles you are making if engine placement dosent interfere with firewall.

Porcharu, I will measure how long the 3.3 block is from the deck surface were the trany bolts up to it, to the furthest most point of the front of the motor(probably crank pulley).

Would you measure how much space there is from were your kit places the trany to the firewall of the 914?
Thanks.

[Porcharu]

The transmission to block surface is about 1" forward of the "rear firewall" - where the rear enging seal is on a stock 914. There should be plenty of room for the six. There is almost a foot between the front of the engine and the firewall.
The distance between the transmission to block surface and the front engine tin seal area is about 24-1/2"

This post has been edited by Porcharu: Mar 17 2006, 11:36 AM

[jsteele22]

I've been reading back through this thread, and I've got an idea...

In this picture, the rod on the left is the one that controls the shifting (in/out, cw/ccw), right ? It looks like it is rather short, so that an extension of some sort is what actually protrudes from the rear of the Saker plate. (In fact, some of the other photos of the Saker plate installed didn't have a rod protruding, so I've pretty much convinced myself that this is the case.)

What I'm thinking about is cable shifters. A week or so ago somebody (I'm sure you guys saw it) posted a really sweet cable shifter design using a splined section from a (Suzuki Samurai ?) drive shaft. The biggest downside to that (or any other) cable shifter mechanism I've seen is the vulnerability to dirt and grime, and/or the need for a really good prophylactic. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif) So what I'm pondering is the possibility of putting the crucial bits of the cable shifter inside the transmission housing. That way the male/female spline section would not only be protected, it would be nicely lubricated as well. I'm kind of picturing a sleeve that goes over that control shaft (I don't know what it's called) and is fixed to it. This sleeve has the male splines on its outer surface. Then a female splined section fits over this, and has an arm that is actuated by a cable to provide the cw/ccw motion. A ball joint on the end of the male spline section can couple to a second cable for the in/out motion. So rather than having the control shaft extending through the rear plate, there would be two cables.

Sound crazy ? Maybe just crazy enough to work ?

[Porcharu]

Cool idea but (damb buts always ruin things) it's not that simple. Those do-dads on the bottom of the picture are also part of the shift linkage. There is sort of a rocker arm at the end of the shift extension rod. I think getting the cables inside of the transmission case is do-able and is a good idea..

[jsteele22]

Okay, gotcha.

I'll probably need to wait until (much) later when I've got a tranny to mess with to see all the issues, but in general it looks like there's room for putting the guts of a cable shifter in there.

One thing I'm wondering is wherther the cable itself can enter the case. It seems inevitable that tranny fluid would wick back along the cable and enter the jacket. We'd have to figure out if that's a problem or a feature (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

BTW, how does the standard control shaft pass through the Saker plate ? Is there a plastic bushing ? a lip seal ?

[nsyr]

Here is my set up for the cable shifter

[nsyr]

And my setup for the drive shafts. 924 shafts with 914 cv on outside and 924 cv on inside with 100 mm flange welded to subaru output.

[jsteele22]

Cool. I looked up 924 axles on car-part.com, and they look reasonable. Somehow just saying that the driveshafts come from a Porsche sounds cooler than from a VW bus -- does that make me a snob ? Anyway, I'm assuming you got the ones from the 924 Manual, not the Auto, right ? On the Auto the left and right are different.


Also, there was some question earlier in this thread about whether this setup would allow you drop the engine/tranny without removing the trailing arms. And the verdict is ..... ?

Unless I'm missing something, it looks like the 924 CV is bolted to the custom 100 mm flange w/ the same kind of bolts as we have on our teeners. I'm not sure why the procedure wouldn't be the same.

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Mar 19 2006, 11:52 AM)

Okay, gotcha. I'll probably need to wait until (much) later when I've got a tranny to mess with to see all the issues, but in general it looks like there's room for putting the guts of a cable shifter in there. One thing I'm wondering is wherther the cable itself can enter the case. It seems inevitable that tranny fluid would wick back along the cable and enter the jacket. We'd have to figure out if that's a problem or a feature (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) BTW, how does the standard control shaft pass through the Saker plate ? Is there a plastic bushing ? a lip seal ?

There is lots of room inside for a shifting mechanism.

The cables I am looking at have seals on them so trans oil leaking into them should not be a problem.

It's just a hole in the plate. The seal is in the center diff case.

[nsyr]

I was asked a couple of questions on shifting. I am using a early mr2 shifter (see pic) and I have been driving it for about a week now. The shifter coming out of the transmission has very little travel but this setup is working good so far. I still have some adjusting to do and alot of tuning with msII. The gear ratios seem to be about the same as the 901.

[jimkelly]

I - think - I would like to see Steve some up with an external linkage design that could be used with either 5spd fwd or 5spd awd trannys as I have not decided what tranny I am gonna used but the fwd will save me from needing $250 in Saker parts. Jim

[Quilmes]

This Subaru thread is really great and I am hoping that the question I have is not way off.
Is it possible to make the Subaru FWD/AWD transmission run in the opposite direction? Say like what happens on a 911 engine converted to a 914 layout.
Reason for this questions, I would like to build a VW Vanagon with a Subaru STI engine or SVX 3.3Li and possibly use the Subaru trans. Can a ring & pinion be changed to turn in the opposite direction?
I hear of people using these Subaru engines in the Vanagon’s with the original VW Vanagon trans.
What options due I have to use a 5spd/6spd transmission with this set up in a VW.

Thanks in advance (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Quilmes

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (Quilmes @ Mar 21 2006, 11:23 AM)

This Subaru thread is really great and I am hoping that the question I have is not way off. Is it possible to make the Subaru FWD/AWD transmission run in the opposite direction? Say like what happens on a 911 engine converted to a 914 layout. Reason for this questions, I would like to build a VW Vanagon with a Subaru STI engine or SVX 3.3Li and possibly use the Subaru trans. Can a ring & pinion be changed to turn in the opposite direction? I hear of people using these Subaru engines in the Vanagon’s with the original VW Vanagon trans. What options due I have to use a 5spd/6spd transmission with this set up in a VW. Thanks in advance (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Quilmes

That's my next project! Imagine using the AWD trans to make a Syrcro from a regular van.

[atsealevel914]

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 15 2006, 10:33 PM)

The transmission to block surface is about 1" forward of the "rear firewall" - where the rear enging seal is on a stock 914. There should be plenty of room for the six. There is almost a foot between the front of the engine and the firewall. The distance between the transmission to block surface and the front engine tin seal area is about 24-1/2"

Just measured the length of the svx motor and its 21 1/2"

I will get the cradle from you too. In your cradle design is the engine mount and tranny mount one piece? Are you retaining the subaru motor mounts or will you mount the cradle solid to the block?

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 21 2006, 04:06 PM)

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 15 2006, 10:33 PM) The transmission to block surface is about 1" forward of the "rear firewall" - where the rear enging seal is on a stock 914.  There should be plenty of room for the six.  There is almost a foot between the front of the engine and the firewall. The distance between the transmission to block surface and the front engine tin seal area is about 24-1/2" Just measured the length of the svx motor and its 21 1/2" I will get the cradle from you too. In your cradle design is the engine mount and tranny mount one piece? Are you retaining the subaru motor mounts or will you mount the cradle solid to the block?

The engine cradle will be separate from the transmission mount. The engine and transmission will be mounted solid to the cradle. The cradles will be mounted to the 914 body with whatever 914 mounts you like.