 gaining HP with an air filter, is it true? |
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| forzamotorsport9 |
 Dec 10 2009, 03:22 PM
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#21
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Newbie  Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 2-November 09 From: Bettendorf Iowa Member No.: 11,001 Region Association: Upper MidWest  |
alright. i have a 73 1.7L and am looking to ditch the oil bath intake. would one of these be worth getting as a replacement until i sell it (then ill put the stock oil bath back on). I guess you can use a 1.8L airbox but im just curious as to what would be easier and more reliable.
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| Spoke |
Dec 10 2009, 04:16 PM
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#22
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 7,104 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None 
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Maybe this will help gas mileage and improve HP??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)
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| SirAndy |
Dec 10 2009, 04:19 PM
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#23
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,943 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(forzamotorsport9 @ Dec 10 2009, 01:22 PM)  i have a ... oil bath intake ... im just curious as to what would be ... more reliable. I thought there was a 1.7L paper element airbox as well? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) The oil-bath filter, if maintained properly, works very well ... Just don't step on it when it's sitting on the garage floor ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Andy |
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| Eric_Shea |
Dec 10 2009, 04:23 PM
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#24
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains  |
I think the oil bath is one of the best...
K&N's are junk. |
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| underthetire |
Dec 10 2009, 05:00 PM
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#25
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Dec 10 2009, 02:19 PM) QUOTE(forzamotorsport9 @ Dec 10 2009, 01:22 PM) i have a ... oil bath intake ... im just curious as to what would be ... more reliable. I thought there was a 1.7L paper element airbox as well? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) The oil-bath filter, if maintained properly, works very well ... Just don't step on it when it's sitting on the garage floor ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Andy And yes, my 73 uses paper elements. I offered it up already. |
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| forzamotorsport9 |
Dec 10 2009, 08:04 PM
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#26
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 2-November 09 From: Bettendorf Iowa Member No.: 11,001 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
so im taking that this is a piece junk? i just want to be reliable and for some reason oil bath doesnt seem to sound reliable, lol but im a noob so what do i know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| GeorgeRud |
Dec 10 2009, 09:50 PM
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#27
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,725 Joined: 27-July 05 From: Chicagoland Member No.: 4,482 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
If I remember correctly, the only way that the filter helps horsepower is if you use the filter, with an inline "turbolater", gas line magnets, and be sure to optimize your muffler bearing! |
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| orange914 |
Dec 11 2009, 12:43 AM
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#28
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http://5starmediaworks.com/index.html Group: Members Posts: 3,371 Joined: 26-March 05 From: Ceres, California Member No.: 3,818 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(underthetire @ Dec 10 2009, 10:16 AM) QUOTE(charliew @ Dec 10 2009, 10:14 AM) If you can use a air filter that has a element that has smaller holes in the material it will filter better. If that surface area is larger than the prior filter so that it will flow more air, it's gotta be better. More air is always going to give more power. As in most high performance it is the sum of all the parts that makes a good result. Um, no. Only if you can add extra fuel for the extra air. Otherwise you just lean out. he's tuned MPS for more fuel so hopefully it'll be richened enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) allen "retrofit" (R.I.P.) claimed the top end improved with the cone set up he had. we also can feel a slight top end increase with our home set up. it routes behind the drivers seat up high to get the colder air. it's no science that top end gets choked on o.e. air box's. look at the 2.0 air box's restrictive "pee shooter" intake tube sucking hot air off the top of the motor. i suppose there must be a quality cone filter out there to use, maybe an o.e. ford truck cone couldbe used (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . |
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| etcmss |
Dec 11 2009, 02:17 PM
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#29
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etcmss Group: Members Posts: 183 Joined: 20-April 06 From: Lancaster, Ky Member No.: 5,899 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I had the same thought a while back to buy one of these and got the same response---it really isn't worth it for most of us
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| Katmanken |
Dec 11 2009, 04:26 PM
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#30
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I just replaced my fuel filter element with a piece of open gauze and the reduced fuel system drag added 25 horses......
Seriously, oil bath air cleaners work great. Ran them in my VW Beetles for about 30 years. Low drag, great filtering, quiet, and really low cost to operate because you don't need an expensive paper element . l changed my oil in my filter every 5 years or so whether it needed it or not..... |
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| charliew |
Dec 11 2009, 06:00 PM
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#31
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,363 Joined: 31-July 07 From: Crawford, TX. Member No.: 7,958 |
Works great is a very subjective statement. Works great for a stock putterer? Works great for a under 5k rpm 50hp motor? If I ever remember to try it I will put the t1 oil bath filter on my flow bench and see how it compares to a paper k&n and a stock sized oem paper element if I can find a similiar sized oem one. It would be real easy to hook the air box up on my 97 1 ton to the flow bench and try the stock element and the k&n replacement to check it out but I'm pretty sure the k&n flows more air because it's noisier.
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| Katmanken |
Dec 11 2009, 07:49 PM
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#32
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Flows more air..... really?
Think about it..... an engine is a piston air pump.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Depending on atmospheric air pressure, there is only so much air that can fill a cylinder when the piston goes from TDC to BDC ..... The only way that you can get less air in the cylinder is to place a large air restrictor into the intake and then the piston sucks a vacuum when the piston goes down....... I'd be willing to bet a non-dirty air filter is designed to pass air and isn't enough of a flow restrictor to create a vaccum so large that it restricts horsepower by other than a very minimal amount...... Oil baths use bubbling and aren't subjected to dirt and flow changes as much as paper units are.... |
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| Solo914 |
Dec 12 2009, 11:21 AM
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 6-March 06 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 5,678 Region Association: None |
For what it is worth, I have spent quite a bit of time on a dyno tuning my spec miata and there are 3-5 hp differences between a stock miata airbox and cone filter assembly. The early miata and the 1.8 914 have a similar intake because they use a airbox with a snorkel and bosch AFM. On the miata we found that the AFM is a large restriction and the box itself is a restriction but only one of those can be fixed, basically you can reduce all the restriction you want from the air filter assembly but only so much air is going to go through the AFM. So, the goal is to find a filter assembly that will flow air the best THROUGH the AFM. Someone with more time on their hands than me has done the testing with a flowbench and found that the AFM and the airbox were the restrictions in the system of the miata. I am pretty sure that no one has really done that kind of testing on a 1.8 914, I mean why would you. The fact is, if the 1.8L doesn't flow enough to max out the flow of the AFM or the air box/filter then you probably aren't leaving that much on the table. Then again, if it is maxing it out then there could potentially be some good HP being left on the table.
It also goes without saying that you should probably adjust your AFM if you are going to modify your intake filter assembly etc. So, is it worth it for 0-5hp? Well, if it is a 5hp gain well thats like a 6-7% gain in HP at the wheels on a stock 914. I guess its up to you. kyle |
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| Katmanken |
Dec 12 2009, 12:22 PM
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#34
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Just remember with the 1.8 L-jet you have a built in flow restrictor......
A spring loaded air flap that requires air pressure to open it and to set the fuel flow... Performer enhancer it ain't, but then again it's pretty reliable- unless you have an air leak downstream from the flap.... That's why the later versions of Bosch EFI took out the flap and used a low flow restricting hot wire.... |
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| Solo914 |
Dec 12 2009, 02:17 PM
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 6-March 06 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 5,678 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(kwales @ Dec 12 2009, 10:22 AM) Just remember with the 1.8 L-jet you have a built in flow restrictor...... A spring loaded air flap that requires air pressure to open it and to set the fuel flow... Performer enhancer it ain't, but then again it's pretty reliable- unless you have an air leak downstream from the flap.... That's why the later versions of Bosch EFI took out the flap and used a low flow restricting hot wire.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) That's why if you really want to make HP with a the flapper style AFM(air fuel meter), the design of the tube/adapter is as important as the the air filter. You are trying to make the smoothest transition from the round intake tube to the square throat on the AFM. This is what the spec miata guys do.  |
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| windforfun |
Jan 8 2010, 06:00 PM
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#36
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,998 Joined: 17-December 07 From: Blackhawk, CA Member No.: 8,476 Region Association: None
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I threw one of these on my "73 1.7. The car runs stronger & the engine well is much easier to work in.
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