Gauging interest for PnP Megasquirt solution, MS anyone? Options

[Dasnowman]

This is a real interesting thread so I'm bumping it up to see anything going on with this still?

Car came with a 1.7 that was said to be running 20 years ago before putting away in storage. But missing EFI system was thinking about doing carbs and cam but will want to swap in a 2L in the next year or two.. So I want something i can change or motify at a later date to fit my needs.

[JamesM]

This has been on hold for a long time due to a series of life events and me making this a lower priority. It started with a power supply blowing up and literally burning up 2 hard drives in a raid array I had all the data for this project stored on, smoke and all. 3 months, multiple attempts at cloning the HDD controller boards and a bit of work getting the RAID running on 1 drive and I was able to recover the data, but at that point I had lost a bit of the momentum. That was followed by changing jobs twice that resulted in no longer having 40 hours a week of downtime in front of a computer where I can work on this. Add to all that a new baby and a wife that requires a lot of maintenance and bottom line is I just have had not had the time.

The other half of the time issue on this would be one of supporting the product. This is the reason I have made it lower priority. Even if I did produce the boards I would not want to widely distribute them without being able to support it, which again, I just don't have the time for at the moment. I have considered the idea of finishing the design and handing it over to someone for production/support just so it's available, I have a couple people in mind but have not started any discussions with them yet to see if they would be interested.

As it stands right now I have 2 running prototypes that could be swapped into any d-jet injected car, so I know it can be done. These are built on MiniMS boards that I applied my hacks to. I have the circuits laid out for the custom boards in my board design software, I just need to finish component arangement and get them printed. Thats pretty much where it has been sitting for the last 2 years. One of the boards I modified even further to do full ignition control and have been running that one at autocross for a few years now with no failures yet.


So to summarize, no time, low priority for me, support issues to work out. that being said, this is still something that I want to make happen even if just to run on my own cars. Once it does happen if I don't have the time to support it I would probably still hand over some boards unsupported to qualified people.

[llich]

What about this?
where i can buy a PCB or get a gerber/excellon file for build it?
I have a blog, where i translate and regroup information about this PCB

Thanks for all guys

[Beebo Kanelle]

what would it take to capitalize this project? I think this really fills a necessary niche.

[JamesM]

what would it take to capitalize this project? I think this really fills a necessary niche.

It would take someone with the time to get it done. Unfortunately I took a job with a startup a few years ago and the abundance of free time I had completely disappeared.

Technically, its not that hard to accomplish, I have had a couple prototypes running for the last 10 or so years, the challenge is more the time investment needed for production and support. I had played with the idea of a fully custom PCB, but with the time required to hand solder a single unit being 6-8 hours it was just not feasible. I have a couple other ideas that would reduce the amount of labor for production but all of them result in higher cost. I have toyed with the idea of finding an EE student who wants a project to do some of the heavylifting here, but again have not had the time to pursue it. Another idea might be to approach one of the larger players (thinking DIYautotune) and see if they would take up production and support, but there would need to be a large enough market and I am not sure there is.

A while back someone (cant remember if it was a VW guy or a Volvo guy) started producing d-jet adapter boards while not fully plug and play it would simplify the process for someone looking to go down this road.

[JamesM]

On second thought....

You just got me looking at the DIYautotune site again as I have not even thought about this project in some time. It looks like there is an available product now that didn't exist when I started down this road, but would most likely simplify this project quite a bit, as well as address some of the legal grey areas of using a custom board.


http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsq...-v22-p-381.html


Pre assembled, single board solution, but more importantly, unlike every other MS product out there it looks like the injector drivers on this new board are logic level which would greatly simplify the process of using this with a stock D-Jet harness.

Basically all you would need at this point is an adapter board to the d-jet main harness connector that includes the high current injector circuit and MAP sensor which would be a pretty simple board to design and produce. It would increase cost over a custom single board solution, guessing someone would probably need to price an assembled PnP solution in the $600 range, but this is way more feasible than it has been previously.


Damn, I may need to cough up the ~$350 in core components needed and work on a new prototype now that you got me thinking about this again.

[veekry9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qztuEucrNBc
Yes you can.
The other guy.
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Progress.

[BeemerSteve]

The DubShop for all your MS needs.
I'm enjoying mine!!

[aircooledtechguy]

The DubShop for all your MS needs.
I'm enjoying mine!!

Mario at thedubshop.net is not sitting on his laurels and just putting together great kits that are custom for your application. He's not even satisfied manufacturing most of the ancillary components associated with his kits. He's designed his own licensed MS ECU that incorporates most of the features everyone wants. It even has an on-board O2 sensor controller!! Here's a couple shots of the new ECU that's about to begin testing. . .





"So I've been working on a new MS module based ECU to use with my EFI packages. My focus was on our 4 cylinder engines and I really wanted something that was ready to run sequential out of the box including boost control, launch control + constant baro as the standard setup. The ignition drivers are capable of running smart or dumb coils for COP/CNP or wasted spark applications. Of course you can run larger engines with it as well, just not sequential. On top of all that it has an incorporated wideband controller for a Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor or a jumper to use your currently installed 02 system. All this will be cased in a compact cast aluminum enclosure with an OEM type slide lock connector."

Here is the feature list running in sequential mode:

4 Cyl Seq Fuel / Spark
- High impedance Injector drivers
- Passive Ignition drivers for smart and dumb coils (COP / CNP)

Crank and Cam Inputs
- VR or Hall

Dedicated Tacho Output

Idle Control
- 2 or 3 wire PWM

Launch Control
Boost Control
Table Switching

Onboard Realtime Baro
- 1 ADC input with onboard baro enabled
- 2 ADC inputs with onboard baro disabled

Onboard LSU4.9 Wideband Controller
- with 0-5volt output for dash gauge
- Can be bypasses for use with out board controllers

Interchangeable map sensor modules
- 1bar
- 2.5bar
- 4bar

It's soon going to be going to a whole new level for those that want to run a real tuneable modern EFI system in our old cars!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[GregAmy]

Sounds trite but..."subscribing!"

[BeemerSteve]

The DubShop for all your MS needs.
I'm enjoying mine!!

Mario at thedubshop.net is not sitting on his laurels and just putting together great kits that are custom for your application. He's not even satisfied manufacturing most of the ancillary components associated with his kits. He's designed his own licensed MS ECU that incorporates most of the features everyone wants. It even has an on-board O2 sensor controller!! Here's a couple shots of the new ECU that's about to begin testing. . .





"So I've been working on a new MS module based ECU to use with my EFI packages. My focus was on our 4 cylinder engines and I really wanted something that was ready to run sequential out of the box including boost control, launch control + constant baro as the standard setup. The ignition drivers are capable of running smart or dumb coils for COP/CNP or wasted spark applications. Of course you can run larger engines with it as well, just not sequential. On top of all that it has an incorporated wideband controller for a Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor or a jumper to use your currently installed 02 system. All this will be cased in a compact cast aluminum enclosure with an OEM type slide lock connector."

Here is the feature list running in sequential mode:

4 Cyl Seq Fuel / Spark
- High impedance Injector drivers
- Passive Ignition drivers for smart and dumb coils (COP / CNP)

Crank and Cam Inputs
- VR or Hall

Dedicated Tacho Output

Idle Control
- 2 or 3 wire PWM

Launch Control
Boost Control
Table Switching

Onboard Realtime Baro
- 1 ADC input with onboard baro enabled
- 2 ADC inputs with onboard baro disabled

Onboard LSU4.9 Wideband Controller
- with 0-5volt output for dash gauge
- Can be bypasses for use with out board controllers

Interchangeable map sensor modules
- 1bar
- 2.5bar
- 4bar

It's soon going to be going to a whole new level for those that want to run a real tuneable modern EFI system in our old cars!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

So Nate, is he going to have a beta program available too? Count me in for testing!

[913B]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) subscribed

[aircooledtechguy]

So Nate, is he going to have a beta program available too? Count me in for testing!

I'm going to see him at his open house for his new shop this Sunday. I'll get a chance to actually see it in person then and we'll see what he says about a time-frame for testing and other particulars.

If you are free Sunday, he's having an open house this Sunday from 12-4:30. Come on down!!

[JamesM]

So Nate, is he going to have a beta program available too? Count me in for testing!

I'm going to see him at his open house for his new shop this Sunday. I'll get a chance to actually see it in person then and we'll see what he says about a time-frame for testing and other particulars.

If you are free Sunday, he's having an open house this Sunday from 12-4:30. Come on down!!

I love Marios stuff, he is the guy I refer people to when they need any part MS related these days. What he produces currently doesn't match the original intent of this thread though (and this thread is so damn old at this point i think it predates knowledge of his existence). The intent was to have a stock appearing, plug in ECU replacement for existing DJET cars that retains (in appearance anyways) the stock djet components. In my opinion Mario is THE guy to go to for a turnkey MS solution, and in fact maybe should be the guy to go to in order to continue this project as it is his business.

From a functional standpoint it is much better to ditch the stock d-jet harness, but for people who lean towards being more purist, or the sleeper crowd a plug in solution is not yet produced. It can and has been done, just not offered by any vendor currently and taking the jump from hobbyist to vendor is not something I would be able to maintain at the moment.

I believe Mario has posted on this board before but i doubt he is active. If anyone is going to be speaking with him though point him at this thread and see if he wants to pick up the torch. It would not be a far departure from the board he is currently working on (technically not an ECU by itself but appears to leverage Micorsquirt Module as is core) With what is currently available this honestly would not take to much work.

[aircooledtechguy]

So Nate, is he going to have a beta program available too? Count me in for testing!

I'm going to see him at his open house for his new shop this Sunday. I'll get a chance to actually see it in person then and we'll see what he says about a time-frame for testing and other particulars.

If you are free Sunday, he's having an open house this Sunday from 12-4:30. Come on down!!

I love Marios stuff, he is the guy I refer people to when they need any part MS related these days. What he produces currently doesn't match the original intent of this thread though (and this thread is so damn old at this point i think it predates knowledge of his existence). The intent was to have a stock appearing, plug in ECU replacement for existing DJET cars that retains (in appearance anyways) the stock djet components. In my opinion Mario is THE guy to go to for a turnkey MS solution, and in fact maybe should be the guy to go to in order to continue this project as it is his business.

From a functional standpoint it is much better to ditch the stock d-jet harness, but for people who lean towards being more purist, or the sleeper crowd a plug in solution is not yet produced. It can and has been done, just not offered by any vendor currently and taking the jump from hobbyist to vendor is not something I would be able to maintain at the moment.

I believe Mario has posted on this board before but i doubt he is active. If anyone is going to be speaking with him though point him at this thread and see if he wants to pick up the torch. It would not be a far departure from the board he is currently working on (technically not an ECU by itself but appears to leverage Micorsquirt Module as is core) With what is currently available this honestly would not take to much work.

I agree that this is a departure from a true PnP ECU however I would seriously doubt that anyone at this point will be willing to produce a true PnP ECU that looks stock, uses the same harness and components. It's the harnesses that cause a lot of the grief with D-jet and it's the D-jet components (mainly the MPS) that go bad routinely. Why on earth would anyone want to keep the very things that make these systems not work?? Even is someone did, how many would they sell?? 10 maybe 15 units??. . . No one wanting to stay in business will do this. Only an enthusiast that does it in their spare time could afford to take the time needed for such low production numbers.

If someone wants to have a true PnP hidden MS system, they will have to be hand made one at a time using obsolete connectors and would be ridiculously expensive. This would only appeal to a very small number of people. Besides, after about 2.1L, your 2.0L plenum limits your output anyway. . .

IMHO, if you are thinking of going MS or another aftermarket ECU/system, then looking absolutely stock is not your #1 focus. Drive-ability and performance is. The factory D-jet components are just not up to the job. Especially for reliability.

Just my .02 FWIW. . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[GregAmy]

I'm perfectly fine with a system that uses a bespoke wiring harness and connectors, and is reasonably PnP for the home DIY'r. I see no pressing need to stick with factory stuff (except for maybe injectors, to make the install a tad easier.)

[JamesM]

The idea is to start with a working d-jet system and then swap the ECU to have a stock looking, but fully programmable solution. Completely agree about the harness issues, the d-jet connectors were defective in their design even when new. On the plus side Megasquirt does make it a lot easier to diagnose which sensor circuit has a problem (also greatly reduces the number of active circuits in the harness) Bowlsby does re-produce/repair d-jet harnesses for people who want/need them and despite the short comings of the d-jet connectors there are people that still want them.

There is no "one size fits all" solution when it comes to fueling, hell there are still people that swear by carbs. If you want the most reliable, fully modernized system you will need an updated harness/ECU connector,different injectors and sensors, that cannot be argued. Some people want to retain a stock appearance though, and a complete system replacement/update wont do that.

To add some perspective, I have been running my stock d-jet harnessed Megasquirt powered car for over 10 years now and have had ZERO harness related issues. In theory it is not ideal, but it does work.

So Nate, is he going to have a beta program available too? Count me in for testing!

I'm going to see him at his open house for his new shop this Sunday. I'll get a chance to actually see it in person then and we'll see what he says about a time-frame for testing and other particulars.

If you are free Sunday, he's having an open house this Sunday from 12-4:30. Come on down!!

I love Marios stuff, he is the guy I refer people to when they need any part MS related these days. What he produces currently doesn't match the original intent of this thread though (and this thread is so damn old at this point i think it predates knowledge of his existence). The intent was to have a stock appearing, plug in ECU replacement for existing DJET cars that retains (in appearance anyways) the stock djet components. In my opinion Mario is THE guy to go to for a turnkey MS solution, and in fact maybe should be the guy to go to in order to continue this project as it is his business.

From a functional standpoint it is much better to ditch the stock d-jet harness, but for people who lean towards being more purist, or the sleeper crowd a plug in solution is not yet produced. It can and has been done, just not offered by any vendor currently and taking the jump from hobbyist to vendor is not something I would be able to maintain at the moment.

I believe Mario has posted on this board before but i doubt he is active. If anyone is going to be speaking with him though point him at this thread and see if he wants to pick up the torch. It would not be a far departure from the board he is currently working on (technically not an ECU by itself but appears to leverage Micorsquirt Module as is core) With what is currently available this honestly would not take to much work.

I agree that this is a departure from a true PnP ECU however I would seriously doubt that anyone at this point will be willing to produce a true PnP ECU that looks stock, uses the same harness and components. It's the harnesses that cause a lot of the grief with D-jet and it's the D-jet components (mainly the MPS) that go bad routinely. Why on earth would anyone want to keep the very things that make these systems not work?? Even is someone did, how many would they sell?? 10 maybe 15 units??. . . No one wanting to stay in business will do this. Only an enthusiast that does it in their spare time could afford to take the time needed for such low production numbers.

If someone wants to have a true PnP hidden MS system, they will have to be hand made one at a time using obsolete connectors and would be ridiculously expensive. This would only appeal to a very small number of people. Besides, after about 2.1L, your 2.0L plenum limits your output anyway. . .

IMHO, if you are thinking of going MS or another aftermarket ECU/system, then looking absolutely stock is not your #1 focus. Drive-ability and performance is. The factory D-jet components are just not up to the job. Especially for reliability.

Just my .02 FWIW. . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[JamesM]

I'm perfectly fine with a system that uses a bespoke wiring harness and connectors, and is reasonably PnP for the home DIY'r. I see no pressing need to stick with factory stuff (except for maybe injectors, to make the install a tad easier.)

If you are changing everything else, late model Vanagon injectors fit the 914 intake, have updated connectors, and are more appropriately sized for EFI than the stock 2L injectors. Not to mention are way cheaper and still available new.

Thats a win/win, win, win, win.

[GregAmy]

If you are changing everything else, late model Vanagon injectors fit the 914 intake, have updated connectors, and are more appropriately sized for EFI than the stock 2L injectors. Not to mention are way cheaper and still available new.

Thats a win/win, win, win, win.

Concur. It would be an even better win when I can buy it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Mueller]

Only 2 reasons I can think of to have a hidden/undetectable MS install....

You show your car at concours show and will be heavily dinged for a non-stock FI...

or you are in a race series that requires stock components and you don't mind cheating (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I like the plug and play or at least near pnp since many people don't want to deal with too much wiring or tuning.