What does "Complete Engine" mean, I need a ruling from the court Options

[ellisor3]

A couple of weeks ago I called around to some salvage companies looking for a 3.2L engine. My request went like this: " I need a price on a complete 3.2 engine minus the fuel system". I found one that had been rebuilt by a reputable builder and we struck a deal. The engine was delivered today, and it was not as "complete" as I expected.

It did not have the engine shroud, fan, clutch, flywheel, engine tins or cross bar mount. When I said complete engine I expected it to be ready to install minus fuel system. Is this correct?? What say the court??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[bandjoey]

I've done the same thing and learned my lesson the hard way. Different interpretation of words cost money. Probably need to be super specific when ordering on the phone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Also, salvage yards sell it, in the words of Johnny Cash, One Piece At A Time.

Hopefully you've got a good 'motor' and might find a trashed complete motor super cheep to get the other parts off of. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mark Henry]

shortblock no heads, towers, VC's or P&C's, may or may not on the fly for a /6 but a /4 should have the flywheel.
Longblock is valve cover to valve cover, pulley to fly.

To me complete is well...complete.

[type2man]

To most companies complete is delivered without accesories such as the alternator and compressor but with an intake. The tins, they should have left on. Longblock to me is valve cover to valve cover. Turnkey is obvious...but complete is kind of shady...hard to make a decision depending on how much you paid and if you overpaid.

[1968Cayman]

In my experience, if you're trading an engine into a dismantler, it had better have everything on it needed to drop into another car. If you're buying one, it will likely only come with everything up to the intake, valve covers and sometimes the fuel delivery system. Everything else is money.

[championgt1]

Bandjoey. Awesome picture! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[campbellcj]

To me "complete" means I can drop it in a car and drive. Totally agree that all parties need to get specific on what is included and not included. Pictures are your friend.

[Cap'n Krusty]

A few months ago I bought yet another VW/Audi 2.0 FSI engine, this one from LQK, a big chain of boneyards. I ordered a complete engine, knowing the alternator, A/C compressor, P/S pump, turbo, and throttle body wouldn't be there. They're worth biggish bucks, and most shops wouldn't need 'em anyway. What I got was a long block, missing the intake manifold (plastic, no less) that I REALLY needed. Since the salesman assured me this was a "complete" engine less the above mentioned ancillary bits), and he KNEW what I needed, I went over his head and did everything short of telling them to come get it before they agreed to come up with a manifold. it's not like there's a big market for them. The hassle made me leery of ever dealing with this company again.

The Cap'n

[McMark]

There is no ruling. Sorry. It sucks that you didn't get what you thought you were going to. Ambiguity is a killer. The only way to make sure you're getting what you want, is to ask. Thoroughly.

[EdwardBlume]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) The only way to fully know anything is to ask lots of questions... at least a 3.2 is a darn good engine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Gint]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
It doesn't matter what any one here thinks a complete used engine should be. It's entirely subjective. What matters is what you and the seller think is complete and what you discuss prior to the purchase and what you end up getting after having had that discussion.

[Cevan]

Did the seller provide you with pictures of the engine prior to the sale?

[ME733]

...........A complete engine ....has many meanings /and is a poor way to define what you want or expect to get ...for your money....I never purchase "core, totally complete engines"..unless I put my hands and eyeballs on the engine....not to do so just allows the seller an opening to hold back parts you need...so he can sell them to you later(after he,s got your money of course, on the first deal)....there is no honor in the junk yard/salvage business........IMO.

[MDG]

+1 on what Gint said, too many ways for an individual to interpret 'complete'.

When I went to see my 3.2 I made sure it was complete as per my needs. My guy had everything right down to the tach and fuel pump ready for me. When I picked it up I double checked to make sure nothing had got up and walked away . . .

[realred914]

sounds complete to me, minus the fuel system (no intake stuff provided, i fugure from the heads out is the fuel system)
there is no engine tin nor fan, well that is part of teh cooling system. if you buy a "complete" chevy engine, do you expect the radiator, and heater core included?

I can see both sides here, the seller has a different interpitation than teh seller, niether is really wrong, just is there is a mis-understanding.

I hate to say buyer be ware, but in this case, you really needed to be morer specifict. there is too much wiggle room with the broad definitions used.
It would be wise in hind site to make a list of all engine accesories desired and and work from that.

sorry it went bad, hod=pe fully you have a good core of your motor here, and will be able to get not to expensivly the needed parts.

leasons in life are oft not cheap.

[Katmanken]

That missing flywheel bothers me.

It's a balanced part of the rotating elements of the engine and should be there.

[Root_Werks]

Although my last purchase went very, very well without actually putting my hands on the car, I'm finding myself needing to place my hands on things before buying them unless I really know who I'm buying from. Even then, I him and ha a lot about it.

Niether side is to blame for this. You should have been much more specific about what you wanted left on the engine, requested pictures even. They should have been more forthcoming about what they wanted to remove for the price negotiated.

It kinda sucks, but I don't know if I'd get too upset about it.

[ellisor3]

As a follow up, I spoke with the salvage company today and we basically split the difference on the issue. We both admitted that we should have been more specific in what was asked and what was being provided. He agreed to provide the fan,alternator and shroud and I will deal with the back end which is the flywheel and clutch. Being that a 3.2 is being mated with a 901 trans, I would have had to replace these anyway, so in the end it worked our ok I guess. Lesson Learned: GET PICS and a WRITTEN ESTIMATE of what you are buying. By the way since this got worked out I will tell everyone it was DC Auto, Robert is really good to work with. Thanks to the court (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Root_Werks]

Very cool and glad you got it worked out! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[McMark]

Perfect solution! Glad to hear it worked out well.