The Legend of the "914 S" & "914 SC", Myth or Fact? |
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914/4: 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 914/6: 70 71 72
The Legend of the "914 S" & "914 SC", Myth or Fact? |
al weidman |
Sep 13 2010, 10:14 PM
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#161
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Al Weidman Group: Members Posts: 156 Joined: 22-February 08 From: Oroville, Ca. Member No.: 8,736 Region Association: Northern California |
Let me add what I think I remember. I sold Porsche's at Kendon P/A and Circle P/A from the summer of 1969 to the fall of 1975. I sold some new 912's then basically all of the 914's. We installed Porsche crests on all 914 hoods, coco mats side stripes and radios, since we could get Clarions for about $40. Per customer's request, we did interior swaps, wheel swaps, exhaust installs and there were even 914 mud flaps. We also put side mouldings on many cars.
As far as the '73 2.0 goes, we believed it was going to be the 914s. We had the brochures and were told about all the improvements and it would have a broader appeal than the 914-6, which we had a hard time selling even at a discounted $5000 even, into 1972. Now comes the interesting part. We heard that the PCA was the lobbying group to drop the "s" as they were insulted that Porsche would even consider calling a 914 an "s". This would explain the time delay and also why the Brits were not advised to stop. In those days the 914-6 was the only 914 considered a real Porsche because the chassis were shipped to Porsche for completion. Even the 912 was suspecious to the 911 crowd and also not accepted by the 356er's either. Remember most Porsche buyers were enthusiasts and knew the cars and options well. Actually quite a lot of our 911's were special ordered. When the wealthy picked up on Porsche's is when they were only interested in "Which is the best or fastest one they make?" The 914 opened up a whole new crowd. I taught many girls how to drive a stick shift. If they would have made an automatic, they could have sold a million. I just don't think they had the capacity to do it. Also VW had planned to stop the car in '74, that's when Porsche stepped up and finished the run to '76 to have a transition car to the 924 and it's connection to Audi for production capacity and maintain an entry level Porsche. BTW I was awarded the "Salesman of the 1972 LA car show" by coming close to selling a car the one of the judges. I knew the cars and loved them, still do, although I have forgotten some of the options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
Bleyseng |
Sep 14 2010, 09:33 AM
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#162
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,036 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
yep, in those days the wealthy wine and cheese crowd were quite rude and exclusive group. PCA considered the 914's a Volkswagen and nothing more except the 914/6 which was final assembled by Porsche factory workers....really stupid I thought then and now.
As Porsche historians have noted, the 914 kept Porsche in business in those years not the exclusive and expensive 911. |
Tom_T |
Sep 14 2010, 12:19 PM
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#163
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
Let me add what I think I remember. I sold Porsche's at Kendon P/A and Circle P/A from the summer of 1969 to the fall of 1975. I sold some new 912's then basically all of the 914's. We installed Porsche crests on all 914 hoods, coco mats side stripes and radios, since we could get Clarions for about $40. Per customer's request, we did interior swaps, wheel swaps, exhaust installs and there were even 914 mud flaps. We also put side mouldings on many cars. As far as the '73 2.0 goes, we believed it was going to be the 914s. We had the brochures and were told about all the improvements and it would have a broader appeal than the 914-6, which we had a hard time selling even at a discounted $5000 even, into 1972. Now comes the interesting part. We heard that the PCA was the lobbying group to drop the "s" as they were insulted that Porsche would even consider calling a 914 an "s". This would explain the time delay and also why the Brits were not advised to stop. In those days the 914-6 was the only 914 considered a real Porsche because the chassis were shipped to Porsche for completion. Even the 912 was suspecious to the 911 crowd and also not accepted by the 356er's either. Remember most Porsche buyers were enthusiasts and knew the cars and options well. Actually quite a lot of our 911's were special ordered. When the wealthy picked up on Porsche's is when they were only interested in "Which is the best or fastest one they make?" The 914 opened up a whole new crowd. I taught many girls how to drive a stick shift. If they would have made an automatic, they could have sold a million. I just don't think they had the capacity to do it. Also VW had planned to stop the car in '74, that's when Porsche stepped up and finished the run to '76 to have a transition car to the 924 and it's connection to Audi for production capacity and maintain an entry level Porsche. BTW I was awarded the "Salesman of the 1972 LA car show" by coming close to selling a car the one of the judges. I knew the cars and loved them, still do, although I have forgotten some of the options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Thanx for the info Al! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Rick Perkins was over last Dec. to confirm the BO & HO Recalls weren't done on my 73 2L & told me about the 30 minute interior swaps the dealers did back in the day. I'll bet you gave me at least one of my 914 look-arounds &/or test drives (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) at Circle during 74-75! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .... but I don't recall for sure - half-zymers dontcha know! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I couldn't afford a new one right out of college in June 74, & wasn't impressed by the big bumpers & less power on the 75's - so I ended up finding a used 73 2L later in Dec 75, which is the one I'm doing the resto on now. Good old Hans at Hans Imports in HB guided me past a dozen other 914 "dawgs" before he gave the go ahead on this one, and has worked on all of my cars since then! You may know him & his guys - Carl & Herbert are still with him, but Brice retired early with health issues. Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Tom /////// |
al weidman |
Sep 16 2010, 11:29 PM
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#164
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Al Weidman Group: Members Posts: 156 Joined: 22-February 08 From: Oroville, Ca. Member No.: 8,736 Region Association: Northern California |
Tom, I may have. I lived in Rowland Heights early on and moved to Placentia in '73. You know Bert Ohlander was there then. People pay a premium if it is found to be one of his demos. He would not drive a 914 and paid extra to drive a 911 demo. I don't know if you ever saw it, but I had a Willow Green, no group car, pen striped with flames by Shakey Jake. Sold immediately. Many more stories from the day. Al (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)
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Tom_T |
Sep 17 2010, 11:08 AM
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#165
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
Tom, I may have. I lived in Rowland Heights early on and moved to Placentia in '73. You know Bert Ohlander was there then. People pay a premium if it is found to be one of his demos. He would not drive a 914 and paid extra to drive a 911 demo. I don't know if you ever saw it, but I had a Willow Green, no group car, pen striped with flames by Shakey Jake. Sold immediately. Many more stories from the day. Al (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) We could have a great visit sharing old stories! I do remember one guy who would always shuffle my buddies & I off to other salesmen when we said we were interested in a 914 - probably Bert! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Are you going to GPR BBQ this weekend? If so, look for my Dove Blue 88 Westy with the stinger rocket launcher - errr .... awning - & OEM alloys! It has white/grey "freckles" right now cuz I'm part way through a paint touch-up! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I don't recall that "flamed" 914, but my current 1980 paint job was medium over light blue hand pin striped by one of Jake's main competitors in OC, but I don't recall his name. IMHO the 914 looks GREAT with the pinstriped fender-line, but the CW's seem to think it hurts the look & value & gets gigged at CdE events. I may wait & get black over Antrhacite or Anthracite over Silver metallics pinstriped on my resto back to the OE L80E Light Ivory, since I'll probably only seriously CdE mine while it's still clean! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) After which I can "personalize" it a bit more to MY liking! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
Tom_T |
Sep 17 2010, 11:15 AM
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#166
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
Better shot of pinstriping full body pic ....
.... technically not originality, but certainly history on my 914S! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
72914S |
Sep 19 2010, 03:43 PM
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#167
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love this shot Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 10-July 03 From: Pensacola,Fl. Member No.: 900 Region Association: South East States |
I added the "S" to mine as it is a `72 with all the refinements of the `73. It has sway bars, front suspension from a `73, gauge console, 2.0, side shifter, `73 doors, etc. Here is a hard cover book, reminds me of the Clymer. This is on Ebay. I have one in my collection.
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Tom_T |
Sep 22 2010, 01:04 PM
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#168
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
I added the "S" to mine as it is a `72 with all the refinements of the `73. It has sway bars, front suspension from a `73, gauge console, 2.0, side shifter, `73 doors, etc. Here is a hard cover book, reminds me of the Clymer. This is on Ebay. I have one in my collection. Thanx for the post! Interesting that this Brit book references the "914 S" & 69-72 MYs, which I suppose could be covering the early 73 MY "914S" built in 1972, but in the UK they called the 2.0L 73-76 MYs a "914SC" (I'm assuming it's a UK book due to "Autopress Ltd." which IIRC was/is a UK publisher). Very strange....!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) FYI - A member vendor RJMII makes them with the "S" attached as "914-S" if you're interested in a retrofit. Check member vendors section here. |
JeffBowlsby |
Sep 22 2010, 01:25 PM
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#169
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,741 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None |
Here are two more:
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Tom_T |
Sep 23 2010, 11:03 PM
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#170
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
Here are two more: Thanx Jeff - The left one lists 914SC & right 914S & both are same publisher, unless I'm looking at it wrong!? ... but they could have been for the UK & USA markets respectively. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
ME733 |
Sep 28 2010, 06:46 AM
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#171
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 842 Joined: 25-June 08 From: Atlanta Ga. Member No.: 9,209 Region Association: South East States |
.........well over the last 3-4 months, the discussions and information about the 914-S just keep coming in. this is a great thread and is providing some intresting information....I have a question,...how many do you suppose....how many 914 S cars were produced, and what generally is the recognized chassis number range.?..
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Tom_T |
Sep 28 2010, 07:48 PM
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#172
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
.........well over the last 3-4 months, the discussions and information about the 914-S just keep coming in. this is a great thread and is providing some intresting information....I have a question,...how many do you suppose....how many 914 S cars were produced, and what generally is the recognized chassis number range.?.. Hey Murry, tough question! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) The best SWAG estimate that I've been able to do, is to use the 1972 production number for 2.0's of about 4800, but the total production nos. for a VIN range is harder with the split calendar years (CY) of production vs. model year (MY) production (see chart below), with some fine tuning as follows..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) The VIN range would probably be "somewhere" in the range of 4732900001 - 4732915000+/- - by my SWAG-estimating the total 1973 MY production in 1972 CY, by deducting 74 & 72-71-70 MYs' production from the CY of them produced per year(s) before & after, as found at the link below (from the 914world's links at top of page) - leaving about 12,700+/- 1973 MY 914 1.7s & 2.0s produced in CY 1973. http://www.914world.com/specs/productionnumbers.php However, I have no way to isolate the number of 1972 built 2.0's for the USA - per "914S spec." (i.e.: including the Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' Options in the base price) & imported for USA production - other than to just guess at the then ratio of roughly 60% of all Porsche then sold went to the USA, & apply that to the 4817 built in 1972 - > for roughly 2890 "914S" cars produced ~ but call it roughly 3,000+/- - assuming a 72 CY production only as an entirely arbitrary but "best guess" cut-off point, since the marketing change appears to have occurred in the first month or so of 1973. Not quite as exclusive as Mr. Bowlsby's 1,000 beloved 74 LE's, but about the same as the 3,351 914-6's made for the 70-72 MYs - but not nearly as clearly defined as - nor technically speaking a model - as either of those two versions of 914s. However, as you have pointed out before Murray - I would say that one could make a case for the "914S" as being a "trim level package" - somewhat similar to, but less well defined than the 74 CanAm's (& the USA "914S" was ultimately not "factory approved" nor condoned - as were the Japan 914S/SL & UK 914SC) - as well as the "914S" being a USA marketing program. Probably a better way to determine whether a 73 MY 914-2.0 is a "914S", would be a checklist something along these lines: 1. 73 MY 914-2.0 built before March 1973 (if not more strictly having been built within 1972 CY), & ..... 2. Originally first sold "new" by a Porsche+Audi Dealer in the USA prior to March 1973 (or perhaps earlier), & ..... 3. Originally Equipped from the factory with both Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' Options - ...... refer to here: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm > All of both AG & PG option sets' equipment present or evidence that it was originally there & one or more of the following ..... - a. as included within the base price, &/or - b. shows "N/C" on the Munroney window sticker &/or dealer invoice/BoS ....... examples here: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm - c. Above original new sales docs. show Model Number as either : 473634 (49 states) or 473644 (CA) - ...... per here: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm - d. COA/Kardex does not show AG &/or PG as "Options" & the GA 2.0 engine case is recorded (call/email to COA dept. at PCNA for this info. & to order a COA) ..... ..... Porsche apparently didn't record the AG+PG as options, since they were included equipment in the upgraded 2.0/914S's base price (at least initially). Ergo, if it wasn't first sold new during the time that the USA Porsche+Audi dealers were ostensibly marketing them as the "914S' (including phase-out of that advertising moniker), and if it did not originally have all of the AG & PG extra equipment on it & included in the base price for that model/engine, then it wasn't a "914S spec." 2.0 - but rather a later 2.0 with those options added at extra cost (which some 914/Porsche experts claim happened in the last few months of the 73 MY, as prices soared due to the falling DM-to-Dollar Exchange Rate). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Also of note, the later 73 MY 914-2.0's changed over to the black plastic threshold plates - from aluminum, as well as a few of the other 74 MY cost cutting measures, so IMHO those after those changes were instituted, the later 73 MY 914-2.0's were also not as "dressed up" as our beloved early-73 "914S" models! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Here's the PCA's estimate of total production for 914s - . Of course, different "rules" or "interpretations" would apply to Japan & the UK. ALL of the 914-2.0's imported to Japan & sold new there were called 914S - except that their version of the 74 MY LE was called the 914SL (from the ads provided above in prior posts & Bowlsby's CanAm website), for all 73-76 MYs. Similarly, ALL of the 2.0's imported to & sold new in the UK were called the 914SC, for all model years 73-76. . Boy, I know this talk will get some CW "juices" flowing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
ME733 |
Sep 29 2010, 01:48 PM
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#173
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 842 Joined: 25-June 08 From: Atlanta Ga. Member No.: 9,209 Region Association: South East States |
.....TOM....great information.......what were the "other cost cutting" measures taken in 1973 in the later production 1973 my.914 2.0 cars.?.......And, I would think that the 914 S , in the USA, at least, would cease to have been "sold as" a 914 S sometime in the early months, jan, feb, march, of 1973...and as a time reference the motor trend articles, and factory, dealer, approved advertising for the 914 S., and other printings, posters......As an example, as you pointed out, the black plastic threshold plates.....could be a "give away" that the chassis number may not be early 1973, or late 1972., and therefore not a 914 S. I have heard of 1973 2.o cars without front and rear sway bars, (as an example)., I have seen 1973 2.0, cars ...with.. the black plastic thresholds......Looking back over the information, and evidence collected so far, could we use the dates on the printed posters, magazine articles, purchaser information,and materials to assist in narrowing down the "time frame" of the usa 914S.?. whata think?.
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Scott S |
Sep 29 2010, 04:33 PM
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#174
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Small Member Group: Members Posts: 1,698 Joined: 30-April 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 633 |
Was the marketing campaign killed by Porsche prior to any cars being built? if not, then shouldn't the cars that were built have this designation on the COA?
The SE/Can Am cars are defined/identified on the COA, and they were simply an existing model with different options installed at the factory. |
Tom_T |
Sep 29 2010, 10:26 PM
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#175
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
Was the marketing campaign killed by Porsche prior to any cars being built? if not, then shouldn't the cars that were built have this designation on the COA? The SE/Can Am cars are defined/identified on the COA, and they were simply an existing model with different options installed at the factory. Scott, the 914S marketing campaign was killed in early 1973 - about halfway through the model year, but the inclusion of the Appearance Group & Performance Group options in the base price continued at least through March, & maybe April. The ad campaign's "death" is discussed & documented with MT & R&T articles on the 914S/914-2.0 bracketing the time, in earlier posts in this thread. One would think that PCNA - as the successors to the USA Porsche+Audi marketing arm that created the 914S marketing campaign & "trim level package" would want to note it on the PCNA's current & past COA's - but Nope! I tried with their GM of PCNA's customer service dept. to at least get them to list when normally "extra cost" optional equipment was included in the base price fitment for certain years & models - including the 911 RS & some others - but they declined. You can see my "standard COA" below (also in the above post's link to the 914 window stickers page at Bowlsby's website - see VIN 4732901954). They required me to photo the GA case no. on my 914 before they would even "fess-up" that it was a 2.0 (1st COA only listed 914), & then I had to fight through 2 more COAs with lower & mid-level COA staff, in order to get them to correct their error on the interior color code, which they incorrectly claimed #31 was black & not beige (black is #11 on 70's dealer docs. & many other COAs)! They can be a PITA to work with, but that's how & why I ended up with the GM. So no such luck in any help from PCNA on a COA listing "914S"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) The 3 COAs for my 8/31/72 built 1973 "914 S" / 914-2.0's: #1 - No 2.0L Designation & Wrong Interior Color - #2 - 2.0L Designation Added but still Wrong Interior Color - #3 - 2.0L Designation Added & Corrected Interior Color, but No AG/PG nor 914S - Note that PCNA & the original factory Kardex records apparently lacked the Transaxle Case No. & original MSRP on all of these, so 914 records apparently weren't all that complete & accurate from the start. Also note that they didn't add a production date until I supplied pix of my VIN Sticker & Chassis Plates in the door jambs!!!! Basically you get to do all the work & they add it to your COA for a substantial fee paid to them!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) So there ya go - no help from PCNA on designating "914S" vehicles - nor from the Factory since they didn't condone the "914S" nomenclature, nor did they even record the 473634 & 473644 Model Nos. on the records/Kardexes, & it took lotsa time & effort on my part just to get them to correct THEIR errors! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
Tom_T |
Sep 29 2010, 11:37 PM
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#176
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
.....TOM....great information.......what were the "other cost cutting" measures taken in 1973 in the later production 1973 my.914 2.0 cars.?.......And, I would think that the 914 S , in the USA, at least, would cease to have been "sold as" a 914 S sometime in the early months, jan, feb, march, of 1973...and as a time reference the motor trend articles, and factory, dealer, approved advertising for the 914 S., and other printings, posters......As an example, as you pointed out, the black plastic threshold plates.....could be a "give away" that the chassis number may not be early 1973, or late 1972., and therefore not a 914 S. I have heard of 1973 2.o cars without front and rear sway bars, (as an example)., I have seen 1973 2.0, cars ...with.. the black plastic thresholds......Looking back over the information, and evidence collected so far, could we use the dates on the printed posters, magazine articles, purchaser information,and materials to assist in narrowing down the "time frame" of the usa 914S.?. whata think?. Hey Murray! For the 74 MY they definitely went to all of the Appearance & Performance Groups' options becoming "for added cost" - whether as "groups" or individually, plus for 74 MY they went to "leatherette" wrapped steering wheels (instead of real leather), & heat pressed seams in the basketweave seat backs & bottoms (instead of sewn in 70-73 MY basketweave seats) - & IIRC they also went to a thinner leatherette uholstery material in 75-76 MYs - & maybe during 74 MY too, black plastic headlight surrounds/housings (from white in 70-73 MYs), and other items going plastic &/or more "plain jane" that I can't recall offhand right now. About May-June-July 73 some of these changes apparently started randomly appearing on 914s of both engine types, according to many of the 914 history sources out there, as well as some late 73 2.0's that I've seen as well. Another clue is when they went from the "diamond-back" embossing/stamping on the tops of the air cleaner boxes of the early 2.0 engines' FI's - to the banded style - but that switch may have overlapped the last portion of the "914S" campaign. Also, many of the very early 72 built 914s of both 1.7 & 2.0 flavors had the 70-72 style chromed interior door handle surrounds & window crank bases, then eventually changed to the all black plastic varieties of both parts. Some of these 72 & 74 era parts were incorporated into the 73 MY 2L's as the earlier style parts ran out or new parts got into the bins & were "picked" during assembly. Also, the later 73 MY 914s supposedly started charging separately for Appearance Group & or Sway Bars, in order to hold down the "advertised base price" of the 2.0L model, while recouping costs & profit margins on the "extras" - as the Deutsche Mark escalated against the Dollar back then. The ads, magazine articles & dealer catalogs set a general timeframe, but as others pointed out in prior posts here - they are printed in advance of actual use. Perhaps some dealers also marked their sales invoices/bills of sales with "914 S" which were in early 1973, in order to indicate that they were sold as such by that BoS date. But then again, that could just be an individual person writing it up that way out of earlier habits. I don't think we can do better than to say it was somewhere between January & March 73 that the 914S ad campaign stopped. And therefore, those 914-2.0 models sold in the USA under that 914S campaign & "fully equipped," would've been produced some time before that timeframe & shipped to the USA, then distributed to dealers for sale new prior to sometime in that Jan-Mar 73 period whenever the 914S marketing program ended. I'd guess that was somewhere between a 30-60 day lag, based on oceanic shipping times of today. I'd also bet that some dealers put 914S badges on some 914s with the 2.0 - if a customer requested & paid for it - &/or as a promotion to go with the marketing materials stating such. Plus they apparently added the "2.0" badges as an afterthought on some early 72 built 914-2.0s like mine, where the mounting holes for the "2.0" were drilled/added, while the "914" badge mounting holes were cleanly stamped into the rear body panel during it's manufacture at Karmann. I find it odd - from several sources which I've read, that Porsche didn't even initially think of differentiating the 1.7 from the 2.0 models externally with badging - until after their various marketing arms in the USA, UK & Japan made the point in their respective marketing materials - which is rather shortsighted & amateurish IMHO! My guess is that for us today, it's more a matter of a checklist & "preponderance of the evidence" to show that a particular 73 MY 914-2.0 fits enough of the features of being a 914S, such as: fitment/AG-PG Options at no additional cost, first/new sale date (in the USA) in the probable timeframe for the run of the 914S campaign, etc. For us it's a less formal process, than for the LE's with a specific model/paint code to ID them, or for the 914-6's with a different VIN & coding for the Stuttgart factory of final assembly - either of which makes them easy to ID even without the respective motor in the shell. As I noted in the prior response to Scott above, Porsche & PCNA now either don't know whether a particular 914 is a "GA" 2.0L from the 73 MY on their Kardex records - or they're playing coy about it due to the prevalence of motor swaps in 1.7s & 1.8s. So someone could own a 73 914 which was indeed a 2.0 - & perhaps a "914S" if originally "fully loaded" & from the early 73MY sales in the USA - but not be able to prove it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Frankly, if they are being coy - I do NOT see how PCNA's COA Dept. forcing an owner to provide pix of their engine still in the car, to verify matching nos. & type protects anyone. Rather, it only hinders honest restorers who could otherwise - 1. identify if their 914 was originally a 914-2.0/914S, 2. identify the original engine case no. in the hopes of reuniting it with the chassis for a restoration. Certainly they have assisted some 914-6 restorers with that type of information. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Hope this helps the "Quest for the Holy Grail"!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) ... sorry,couldn't resist - my son & I just watched Monty Python's "Holy Grail" movie again this evening! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
mrgreenjeans |
Feb 5 2011, 07:58 PM
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#177
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mrgreenjeans Group: Members Posts: 213 Joined: 9-February 07 From: N.Dak. Member No.: 7,520 Region Association: Northstar Region |
another new wrinkle to the S myth / mystery......... When I purchased my early 1974 2.0 litre, nearly 20 years ago, I knew the badging on the rear to be O.E. and it says 914 2.0 This car was basically a one owner car, passed from father to son, then me. Sold new from a defunct dealer in Great Falls Mt. originally. The various items in the glove box, the front trunk, and rear trunk also listed the car on dealer documents as a 914 S. Indicated in writing many times. This car had a warranty issue regarding the replacement of the shifter knob after about 4,000 miles. It cracked and broke....It was replaced with an OE Porsche part number and recorded as such on the dealer worksheet........in Arizona ! The description of the car and the paperwork copies sent back to Porsche are in ref. to it as a Sunflower 1974 914 S, serial number 00089. This car was an August of 1973 build ----serial number 00089. It has numerous App.Grp. options. 4 bolt Fuchs ---5--- datecoded as July of 1973 3 Gauge Console Plain plastic steering wheel, NOT wrapped Center seat in tan vinyl Embossed vinyl weld seat seams Clarion AM-FM Radio installed A Euro spec Blaupunkt Frankfurt sideband , in the box in the trunk Antenna drilled on left front cowl Full set of 5 steel mag style wheels on which the car was sitting when bought Fully tinted windows, including the ultra rare rear defogger glass Black Negative side trim---Porsche NO sway bars Black plastic clad window rollups It has numerous carryover -73 items like the washer nozzles, and the center bullets on the tach and speedo. This is a low mile, very original car, never being hacked or modded, so I believe the items all are properly addressed and attended to. History is complete and well documented from day one. Curiously, it sold as a nearly year old / demo to a teacher who then immediately took it on his honeymoon through the mtns. and the S.W. It had only several hundred miles when it sold in July of 74, indicating it was a dealer demo in a small town with little sales. The family had it for nearly 20 years and 60,000 miles. The nomenclature clearly states it, and this is original to the car I believe, as a 2.0. The paperwork from all the Porsche dealerships it was at, Az., Ca., Mt., and ND all indicate it as an S. I believe the service and parts counters used that term interchangeably, as my own local Porsche mech. called it that the first time he saw it, and he has worked there since 1973 as lead Porsche-Audi man. Just adding to the lore....... |
dlkawashima |
Feb 6 2011, 01:30 PM
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#178
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 9,749 Joined: 1-October 10 From: San Jose Member No.: 12,234 Region Association: Northern California |
another new wrinkle to the S myth / mystery......... I think that's the problem ..... there really is no way to specify exactly which cars meet the criteria because there really is no official 914 S. Look at my car below. Clearly, the service record booklet lists it as a "914 S" but if you look at my car (a mostly original car handed down from father to son, then to me), it obviously does not meet the criteria laid out by Tom. It's got black bumpers, black trim around the sail panels, no vinyl on the sail panels, etc. And the build date inside the door jamb is 6/73, so it's definitely not a 914 S according to Tom's rules. |
sixnotfour |
Feb 6 2011, 01:51 PM
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#179
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,638 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I know the owner of this 914 he bought new with the airdam and black bumpers. The steel wheels are race tires it came with fuchs
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Tom_T |
Feb 7 2011, 10:55 PM
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#180
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,320 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
another new wrinkle to the S myth / mystery......... When I purchased my early 1974 2.0 litre, nearly 20 years ago, I knew the badging on the rear to be O.E. and it says 914 2.0 This car was basically a one owner car, passed from father to son, then me. Sold new from a defunct dealer in Great Falls Mt. originally. The various items in the glove box, the front trunk, and rear trunk also listed the car on dealer documents as a 914 S. Indicated in writing many times. This car had a warranty issue regarding the replacement of the shifter knob after about 4,000 miles. It cracked and broke....It was replaced with an OE Porsche part number and recorded as such on the dealer worksheet........in Arizona ! The description of the car and the paperwork copies sent back to Porsche are in ref. to it as a Sunflower 1974 914 S, serial number 00089. This car was an August of 1973 build ----serial number 00089. It has numerous App.Grp. options. 4 bolt Fuchs ---5--- datecoded as July of 1973 3 Gauge Console Plain plastic steering wheel, NOT wrapped Center seat in tan vinyl Embossed vinyl weld seat seams Clarion AM-FM Radio installed A Euro spec Blaupunkt Frankfurt sideband , in the box in the trunk Antenna drilled on left front cowl Full set of 5 steel mag style wheels on which the car was sitting when bought Fully tinted windows, including the ultra rare rear defogger glass Black Negative side trim---Porsche NO sway bars Black plastic clad window rollups It has numerous carryover -73 items like the washer nozzles, and the center bullets on the tach and speedo. This is a low mile, very original car, never being hacked or modded, so I believe the items all are properly addressed and attended to. History is complete and well documented from day one. Curiously, it sold as a nearly year old / demo to a teacher who then immediately took it on his honeymoon through the mtns. and the S.W. It had only several hundred miles when it sold in July of 74, indicating it was a dealer demo in a small town with little sales. The family had it for nearly 20 years and 60,000 miles. The nomenclature clearly states it, and this is original to the car I believe, as a 2.0. The paperwork from all the Porsche dealerships it was at, Az., Ca., Mt., and ND all indicate it as an S. I believe the service and parts counters used that term interchangeably, as my own local Porsche mech. called it that the first time he saw it, and he has worked there since 1973 as lead Porsche-Audi man. Just adding to the lore....... Interesting story. It illustrates the carry-over of prior MY parts into the current MY in the early months of production. My early 73 and some others have some of the 72 MY carry-over items as well. Do you mean a tan hinged center cushion on the storage box for the center seat? ... and is this matching the interior color or off-color from the rest of the interior? It sounds like some of the dealers here in the USA clung to the 914S "tag" much longer than Porsche wanted them to! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It would be interesting to see how your window sticker (Munroney) reads as to which of those options were listed as N/C versus a charge for each and whether Appearance & Sport Groups or individual options. Yours sounds like it had some of the Appearance Group options as individual items - but not all (e.g.: the leather wrapped steering wheel), and not the Sport Group options of sway bars, but it has the Fuchs 2L wheels. If you look at the window stickers for 73 & 74 MYs at jeff Bowlsby's website, and you'll see the difference in the 73 MY "914S" options package, and the 74 change to charging for them all - ether as groups or individually. See here - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm You should also be able to find the official factory Model No. on some of the original dealer sales documents & window sticker (if you have any), which will show what was "packaged" option-wise on yours (same for anyone else lucky enough to have the original sales docs. You can then look that number up at Jeff's site here - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm Thanx for sharing this! Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Tom /////// |
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