The Legend of the "914 S" & "914 SC", Myth or Fact? Options

[tumamilhem]

Well at least in grade school your report cards didn't say "Tammy" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[NFBrown]

Forgive the new 914 owner chiming in. I recall seeing a brand new car that said 914S on the back in Denver right when the 2.0 first came out. I suppose someone could have made up the trim from 914-6 trim but it wasn't obvious. I thought nothing of it at the time.

[dlkawashima]

As an added oddity, I read somewhere recently (but don't recall where now), that the early 73 MY 914s were initially delivered with only a "914" badge from the factory, and then the "2.0" badge was added later (& "1.7" for the other model), but were otherwise initially undifferentiated badge-wise from the 1.7's.

That would explain why the rear wall on my early 73 (8/31/72 chassis no.) has flat holes for the "914" badge, but the holes for the "2.0" badge were obviously drilled later & show the "push-through"/protrusion cupping from a drill (see my post #155 above).

So now I'm wondering: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

1. - If anyone else with a early 914-2.0/914S also has evidence of later added/drilled badge mounting holes for the "2.0" badge? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Here's an interesting post from over 10 years ago ..... on the Bimmer forums:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt...T-Porsche/page2

[Tom_T]

As an added oddity, I read somewhere recently (but don't recall where now), that the early 73 MY 914s were initially delivered with only a "914" badge from the factory, and then the "2.0" badge was added later (& "1.7" for the other model), but were otherwise initially undifferentiated badge-wise from the 1.7's.

That would explain why the rear wall on my early 73 (8/31/72 chassis no.) has flat holes for the "914" badge, but the holes for the "2.0" badge were obviously drilled later & show the "push-through"/protrusion cupping from a drill (see my post #155 above).

So now I'm wondering: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

1. - If anyone else with a early 914-2.0/914S also has evidence of later added/drilled badge mounting holes for the "2.0" badge? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Here's an interesting post from over 10 years ago ..... on the Bimmer forums:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt...T-Porsche/page2

Hi Dave! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

I'm just seeing this Dave & that is a very interesting post.

My 8/72 build 914-2.0 likewise had the 2.0 badge added by the dealer who drilled 2 extra mounting holes - & it's a bit offline with the 914 badge - acording to the OO when I bought it way back in Dec. 75 (I'm the 2nd owner).

My 73 2L is also an early build which did have the sway bars - but front brake calipers are late 2 bleeder style & rears are early single bleeder, & it originally had the chrome window cranks & door handles of the 70-72 fitment.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

I'm adding an update here, due to some continued bickering on another member's post in the Garage Forum asking about the the "914S"....


To clarify .... the "914S" was what's called a "Trim Designation" .... NOT a "marketing ploy" as some No-No-ers are saying here - even if that is the net end effect, just as is ANY model name or sub-designation etc. - & NOT something that "just existed on paper"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Another similar case in point .... We're currently looking for a Cayenne S to pull our vintage trailer, and one of the early & more problematic Series 1 `06 models is on our list due to our really liking an otherwise unavailable bluish silver color (Iceland Silver) only available on the carry-over Titanium Edition version (2006.5 or 1st half 2007 MY - since the `08's started "early" with 1/07 production & sales), & which was marketed as the "Titanium Edition."

It too was "only on paper" with no special badging nor VIN nor other model designation! Those papers likewise bear PAG's & PCNA's official seal, etc., as did Porsche's world region divisions for the "914S" (P+A/VoA in NA), 914SC (UK) + "914S" & "914SL" (JDM).

It's only difference from other Cayenne S's was that it included a set "of the most popular options," had 2-tone upholstery, was only available in 4 paint colors, & filled the gap past the usual end of the `06 MY until the new revised Series 2 (1.5) 2008's were out.

In other words, it's what automakers call a "Trim Designation" - rather than a "Model Designation" - and is the same as "for the 914S" & "914 LE"!

There - I said it - broke the crystal bubble - disrespected the holy grail - demeaned the LE effete - by putting the "914S" & "914 LE" in the same sentence as "Trim Designations" or "Trim Packages"!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

But in the case of the Cay-S TI - Porsche grew up & grew some cajones to name it themselves & stand by the name despite protestations from others out in Porsche-la-la-land - mostly those who don't think anything but a sports car should carry the Stuttgart Crest!

Interestingly enough too - The Cayenne is & was the second VW-Porsche joint venture or joint project (or any other semantic name you wish to apply for the hair splitters) which saved Porsche's bacon financially - the 914 being the first! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Although one could argue that VW started saving bacon with the first Pre-A 356's powered by a warmed-over 1100cc VW engine & a mess of other parts from the VW parts bin to get Porsche started in the first place! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As I stated - another 914 "Trim Package" is the 914 LE or "Limited Edition" or CanAm or Anniversary Edition (?? in Europe/UK, Jeff can correct me if I have that one's name wrong) or 914SL (Japan/JDM) - which only has a differing PAINT CODE & marketing materials to distinguish the 2 limited Orange-on-White or Yellow-on-Black paint schemes with painted sail/roll-bar trim to match the accent color, painted Mahle 4-lug wheels to match, & a few of the other AG & PG options - but not all of those options were included as in the "914S" trim package!

See: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

Just as the "914S" trim package was used to try to offset the feared loss of sales due to the 914-6's discontinuation & replacement of its more powerful Porsche sourced 2.0L flat-6 making 110 HP, with the VW originated & Hans Mezger/Porsche tweaked VW originated Type IV flat-4 2.0L motor only making 95 HP (91 SAE or 100 in RoW) - the "914 LE" was a trim package to try to reinvigorate flagging sales now that the 914-2.0's price had ballooned to over $7500 due to DM vs. $ inflation!

Also of note - all 3 of the Cayenne V6 gas, gas/electric hybrid & diesel motors are VW, VW & Audi powerplants respectively, which were similarly tweaked by Porsche, and all 3 were also used in the Panamera as well! Yet another VW helping hand of today! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

In the "914S"'s case - the US/Canada North American branch - then Porsche+Audi division of VW of America came up with a Trim Designation for the then new & otherwise then also still undistinguished by Porsche Germany themselves as anything BUT a 914 - for the 914 equipped with the 2.0L motor + the Appearance Group (AG) & Performance Group (AG - in RoW it was called Sport Group or SG for short by me) option packages within the base price - and proceeded to market it as such from the pre-release days of early 1972 as "the upcoming model" through March-ish 1973.

So the "914S" trim designation existed in the USA & Canada for about a year or a little more, from the pre-model-release build up campaign in early 1972 to the August `72 release, thru about March 1973 of the actual MY - or about 2/3's of the `73 MY + 6 months of the pre-release build-up. Furthermore, it was consistently promoted as such by the official arm here of Porsche Germany - the Porsche+Audi division of VoA - in all types of media & within Porsche+Audi dealerships, in ALL official model brochures & collateral marketing materials, at auto & trade shows, with the automotive press, etc.

However, apparently the tail-dragging snobs at PCA were the culprits behind lobbying Porsche Germany to put the kabash on the USA/Canada only use of "914S" - which in fact does NOT negate that it existed .... nor that it only existed on paper! It just means that it was shorter lived in the USA & Canada, than in other markets & relative to the Cay-S TI, 914 LE etc. - Any more so than the Cayenne S Titanium Edition of recent times, or the "914 LE," nor of any other "Trim Designation" used by Porsche nor any other car maker!

IMHO - Porsche PAG & PCNA should in fact be recognizing any & all 914-2.0 produced from the start of the 73 MY to at least March 1973 - if not the entire `73 MY - with the model designations of:

473644 - North America (non-CA), Appearance/Performance Pkgs., 2.0L, 914/12 trans.

473664 - California-only, Appearance/Performance Pkgs., 2.0L, 914/12 trans.

- as a "914S" - including on the COA's - in the same way as they currently do with the "914 LE" is recognized in the following 74 MY!

Oh my god ... he did it .... heresy!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Likewise, they should also recognize the other similar RoW AG+PG/SG 2.0L models in the list at Jeff's link below in those markets where they had the similar "914S/914SL" & "914SC" "Trim Designations."

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

Why not do the same for the later 74-76 MY 914-2.0's with AG+PG/SG?

Because ONLY the 1973 MY INCLUDED the AG+PG/SG in the model's base price, & was marketed as a specific "Trim Designation" - whereas those later 74-76 cars' COAs will actually shown the options at extra cost on their COA's.

While the 1973 "914S" will NOT show any of the included options & otherwise has NO other model number nor other identifier to show what came on the car originally! So it's confusing as to what was actually on the car from the factory.

BTW - the 911RS & a bunch of other Porsche "Trim Package" cars have the very same problem, & Porsche needs to correct that shortfall or failing, if the COA is ever to be a truly credible document, as it is with other car makers' COAs that are more complete!

FYI - for those interested, I know of at least a few 73 914-2.0 "914S" owners who have been successful in getting PCNA to include the above model number on their COA, which can at least then trace back to the AG+PG/SG optional equipment set being included on their cars, with the help of something like Jeff's model numbers info. & whatever else "official" from Porsche to document them.

I may make a stab at that myself, since PCNA is supposed to correct their COA's at no additional charge!

(FYI for those not familiar - JDM = Japan Domestic Market - in other words in Japan itself.)

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[mepstein]

Tom - tell us more. The Internet still has a couple gigs of storage left.

[Tom_T]

With all due respect to some guys on here, your comments are off-base - this is NOT some "rebel US Porsche+Audi (P+A) dealers' conspiracy" theory BS!

Why do people keep perpetuating this false info that there was no "914S"!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
The "914S" is NOT some rogue US Porsche+Audi (P+A) dealers' conspiracy nor any other internet conspiracy theory BS! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

It is a well documented FACT that there was a sub-model "trim package" called the "914-S" authorized by Porsche USA, VWoA, PAG & VW-Porsche (note that it was still the JV at the point of late 1972 - early 1973 & Porsche only bought out VW from the JV in 1974) -- collectively "Porsche" below, in order to sell the USA new 2.0L -4 as the "914S" in the USA, Canada & Japan; & as the "914SC" in the UK (+ Australia & New Zealand possibly too).

In the North American market the "914S" moniker was dropped for the "fully loaded" trim package model nos. 473664 (CA), 473644 (rest of N.A.) which included both the Appearance Group (AG) & Performance Group (PS - also called "Sport Group" - SG) groups of options within the base price of $5299 for the "914S".

Initially Porsche only sold the 2.0 -4 as the fully loaded "914S" here - their biggest market worldwide at +/-60% of all sold - in the 1973 MY, in order to attract buyers of the less successful selling & higher priced 70-72 914-6, which it was replacing. So they were offering more optional goodies, included within a lower base price than was the last of the base/stripped 914-6, with 95 vs 110 HP, but better Torque lower down in the rev range (i.e.: more tractable & more responsive throttle at low revs in street use, AX & tight tracks).

While the other sub-models with either AG, PG/SG or base equipment & no options &/or the preceding with customer selected options were available in dealerships in the ROW markets - & by order here in the USA/Canada (North America or N.A.) - they were not imported to the USA to sit on dealer lots here in the USA during the first half or 2/3s of the 73 MY.

Dealers here just didn't want them because they were afraid to have lesser equipped 2.0s sit on their lots unwanted & perceived as stripped down 2.0s, & taking away from the slow 1.7 sales due to their detuning to meet the CA & 49 state emissions standards (in CA the 1.7 dropped to just 69 HP, & 72 HP for the 49 state versions) - since they were still worrying about the hurdles of replacing the prior 70-72 914-6s.

In March 1973, Porsche (all of the above subsidiaries) had to raise the base price of the loaded "914S" trim package to $7299, but they still wanted to have a lower priced 2.0 to advertise - so they switched their advertising to the "914 Sport" which had no AG group options but kept the "Sport Group" PG option group - basically a stripped down 2.0 with sway bars & the Fuchs 2.0 wheels as model no. 973764 (CA) & 973744 (rest of N.A.) in order to advertise a 914 with the 2.0 at $5299.

Dave K's Orange/Black 73 914 Sport is an excellent example of the "914 Sport"

Porsche had to keep a base 2.0 model in that price range in order to compete with Datsun 240Z/260Z, MGB/GT, Fiat 124, Alfa 2000, etc. in roughly the $5-6k base price range - while the economic currency exchanges had the West German Deutche Mark (WGDM) escalating vs. the US Dollar (USD), which caused VWoA/P+A to raise the US price of the fully loaded "914S" up $2k from $5299 at their Aug/Sept `72 introduction - up to $7299 by Mar/June `73.

This was the time that then President Nixon took the USD off of the gold standard, & allowed it to "float" in the currency markets against all other currencies - because being fixed by gold backing was draining our gold reserves, as holders of other currencies were drawing gold on their USD holdings, as their "home currencies" de-escalated against the gold backed USD. His action in 1973 was also due to the economic effects & high inflation caused by the first Oil Crisis in 1973.

At that point, Porsche added the other trim packages for the USA as well - including the "914 Sport" with Sport Group/PG only - because the WGDM was rapidly escalating vs. the now "floating" USD in currency exchange, causing all Porsche models 914 & 911 to rapidly escalate or lose money on the currency exchange rates. It wasn't so much that production costs & parts were going up that much, but rather that the USD was dropping vs. the WGDM, the British Pound, & other stronger of the world currencies - so they got less dollars per WGDM each month. So those old world history & economics classes that you had to take in high school &/or college actually do/did have relevance to your car hobbies!

It was an ECONOMIC pricing decision to stop advertising the "914S" as their halo price & value leader - & switch to the "914 Sport" as their "price/value leader" to get people to come into the showrooms, & to hopefully buy a 914 - hopefully a 914 2L - & hopefully buy up & pay EXTRA fro the options &/or pay the full increased $7299 price for the "914S".

However, the "914S" model lasted the ENTIRE `73 MY - not just part of it, & they used the sales brochures listing the "914S' for the entire 1973 MY - & never reprinted them with the "914 2.0" until 1974 MY!

Note that those "914 Sport" models were the last sub-model numbers add to the `73 model numbers list at Jeff Bowlsby's link below (by model number sequence from the factory - which is how Jeff has them listed as well), which is indicative of the later addition of that "sub-model trim package" set-up being added later in the 1973 MY - in early/mid calendar 1973.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

So according to the Porsche & P-Dealer sources with whom I've been further researching this "914S" situation, where much of the above facts come from - it was changed as part of the VWoA/P+A/Porsche's USA marketing plans reacting to the WGDM inflation against the USD - in order to keep an entry level 2.0 914 at $5299, while raising the price of the fully loaded "914S" so as NOT to lose money on them with the AG/PG/SG options included - AND apparently NOT the oft touted conspiracy theories that the USA PCA members with 911S's forced Porsche to change it, or that Porsche had never approved the "914S" & forced the change - they are NOT true!

In fact - the "914S" was a trim package used in multiple world markets of the USA, Canada, Mexico (collectively North America as served by VWoA & their Porsche+Audi dealerships) & Japan, & "914SC" in UK (& possibly in Ireland, Australia & New Zealand markets as well).

In the automotive business it is no different than the other major 914/4 "sub-model trim package" (or "Trim level", "variant", etc.) - known as the 1974 MY Limited Edition/LE or Can-Am listed on Jeff's models listing as model nos. 974644 (CA) & 974664 (rest of N.A.) - wherein certain of the options, 2 special 2-tone paint schemes with Mahle "Baby Gasburner" wheels painted to match the accent color, black painted trim, anti-sway bars, etc. The primary difference was that the factory limited them to 2000 examples (1000 in each color scheme) & were produced to commemorate Porsches wins in the Can-Am Race Series (there was also a similar 2-tone painted 1974 sub-model trim package" with a dash badge called the "Commemorative Edition" to commemorate the 100,000th 914 built at about the same timing as the USA/Canada 914 Can-Am LE).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_level_(automobile)

However, both the earlier 1973 MY "914S"/"914SC" sub-model trim package, & the following 1974 MY "Can-Am"/"Limited Edition" sub-model trim package, were both approved by Porsche, & both were intended to help boost sales of the 914s with a "Halo" model which would draw prospective buyers into their dealerships. It is very common for automakers then & now to offer special sub-model trim packages on a new or updated model in it's first year - as Porsche did with the "914S"/"914SC" & still does with recent & current models.

Another difference between the two, is that the 1974 MY "Can-Am"/"Limited Edition" sub-model trim package was only offered for a few months in the later 1974 MY in Spring of 1974 - whereas the prior 1973 MY "914S"/"914SC" sub-model trim package ran for the ENTIRE 12 months of the 1973 MY - so I'd say that it's hard to try to say that it was some fleeting marketing ploy by rogue US P+A dealers - as some erroneously claim!

While R&T and some other publications back then had reported that the home office didn't like the "914S" moniker - which was conjecture on their part - the reality was that Porsche needed to offer more other 2L 914 sub-models with lower price points & less options included in the base price, than the fully loaded "914S".

However, Porsche still wanted press coverage on the full line of 2L options/trim levels, so they stopped exclusively presenting the "914S", as they had in the first half or 2/3's of the 1973 MY - & they eventually just referred to it as the "914-2.0" in articles & press releases (R&T had referred to it as "914/2" for their March `73 article, which was by their own admission made up by themselves - not Porsche).

To be clear - there never was a "914S" factory badge for these 1973 914 2Ls, but some dealers did make some up to put on the earliest 73 914s because they only had "914" on both of the 1.7 & 2.0 powered models. By the same token - there NEVER was a "914-LE" badge or other markings for the 1974 "Can-Am/LE" sub-model trim package either - although Porsche did experiment with a "Can-Am side stripe, which was never used on any production LE; & by necessity they had to put special paint codes on the Karmann Plates to signify the two-tone paint scheme used on the LEs - making them easier to ID at this late date, but it's just a paint code, NOT a sub-model badge.

> These 914-S ads ran from around Aug. 1972 through about March 1973, when pricing changes forces VWoA/P+A/Porsche to raise their price from $5299 to $7299 -


.

> Note the extra options included in the "914S" Sub-Model Trim Package from BOTH their print ad & North American/USA P+A Dealer Sales Brochure -



.

> Note that the the above "914S" ad was not replaced with the similar ad with the very same picture, but with the "914 2.0" instead, & without the "included '914S' options listed as included until 1974 MY -



> However, the USA P+A dealer sales brochures continued to list the "914S" in their specs & included AG+PG/SG optional equipment until the end of the 1973 MY in July `73 - i.e.: for the ENTIRE 1973 MY -

.

> And the "914S" was regularly displayed at USA New Car Shows by Porsche/VWoA/P+A throughout the ENTIRE 1973 MY - This is at the Fall 1972 Ft. Worth Car Show -


.

For those interested in more history on the "914S"/"914SC" - I did this topic a while back -

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=107851

.

Hopefully we on this 914world board can stop perpetuating misinformation on the "914S"/"914SC" - & instead correctly characterize them as what they were:
The well priced "loaded with options" introductory 914 2L Sub-model Trim Package, which was priced out of serving as the Porsche+Audi dealers' "price leader 'halo' car" 914 2L, due to world financial, currency economic conditions causing it's price to rise by 38% in just 7 months on the market from $5299 to $7299 (West Coast POE, Ease POE was slightly less).

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[bbrock]

In March 1973, Porsche (all of the above subsidiaries) had to raise the base price of the loaded "914S" trim package to $7299, but they still wanted to have a lower priced 2.0 to advertise - so they switched their advertising to the "914 Sport" which had no AG group options but kept the "Sport Group" PG option group - basically a stripped down 2.0 with sway bars & the Fuchs 2.0 wheels as model no. 973764 (CA) & 973744 (rest of N.A.) in order to advertise a 914 with the 2.0 at $5299.

Tom, this finally clears up a mystery I've had with the way my '73 was optioned. It is obviously a sport group car but I was always confused how that was so if AP & PG were included in the base price for 73 2 liters. The completion date of my car is 4/5/73 which fits perfectly with the timeline you outlined here and finally explains how I came to own a 73 Sport Group car. Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom_T]

In March 1973, Porsche (all of the above subsidiaries) had to raise the base price of the loaded "914S" trim package to $7299, but they still wanted to have a lower priced 2.0 to advertise - so they switched their advertising to the "914 Sport" which had no AG group options but kept the "Sport Group" PG option group - basically a stripped down 2.0 with sway bars & the Fuchs 2.0 wheels as model no. 973764 (CA) & 973744 (rest of N.A.) in order to advertise a 914 with the 2.0 at $5299.

Tom, this finally clears up a mystery I've had with the way my '73 was optioned. It is obviously a sport group car but I was always confused how that was so if AP & PG were included in the base price for 73 2 liters. The completion date of my car is 4/5/73 which fits perfectly with the timeline you outlined here and finally explains how I came to own a 73 Sport Group car. Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Hey Brent,

You should get with member Dave Kawashima from the SF Bay Area CA with the Orange/Black 73 914 Sport that I mentioned, cuz he has some good info on them. IIRC his is a June 73 production one, & IIRC it's almost all original (or restored to such). It's a great example & I think he has all or most of the window sticker & other original paperwork on it.

Jeff Bowlsby also has some 914 Sport example window stickers here too (among others, if you've ever wondered about base & option prices) -

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm

Unfortunately you'll have to look at them all in 73 MY to find out which ones were 914 Sport, but you can quickly check the Model No. at the top of the WS &/or Dealer Invoice to find the actual SG/PG only 2.0s.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

914 Sports are the last 2 model nos. in 73 MY.

Happy Hunting .... errr .... researching!

I started this "914S" research basically to get the original info for the resto of my 73 "914S" to do it back to as it was originally from the factory - before I bought it from the OO in `75.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[bbrock]

In March 1973, Porsche (all of the above subsidiaries) had to raise the base price of the loaded "914S" trim package to $7299, but they still wanted to have a lower priced 2.0 to advertise - so they switched their advertising to the "914 Sport" which had no AG group options but kept the "Sport Group" PG option group - basically a stripped down 2.0 with sway bars & the Fuchs 2.0 wheels as model no. 973764 (CA) & 973744 (rest of N.A.) in order to advertise a 914 with the 2.0 at $5299.

Tom, this finally clears up a mystery I've had with the way my '73 was optioned. It is obviously a sport group car but I was always confused how that was so if AP & PG were included in the base price for 73 2 liters. The completion date of my car is 4/5/73 which fits perfectly with the timeline you outlined here and finally explains how I came to own a 73 Sport Group car. Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Hey Brent,

You should get with member Dave Kawashima from the SF Bay Area CA with the Orange/Black 73 914 Sport that I mentioned, cuz he has some good info on them. IIRC his is a June 73 production one, & IIRC it's almost all original (or restored to such). It's a great example & I think he has all or most of the window sticker & other original paperwork on it.

Jeff Bowlsby also has some 914 Sport example window stickers here too (among others, if you've ever wondered about base & option prices) -

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm

Unfortunately you'll have to look at them all in 73 MY to find out which ones were 914 Sport, but you can quickly check the Model No. at the top of the WS &/or Dealer Invoice to find the actual SG/PG only 2.0s.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

914 Sports are the last 2 model nos. in 73 MY.

Happy Hunting .... errr .... researching!

I started this "914S" research basically to get the original info for the resto of my 73 "914S" to do it back to as it was originally from the factory - before I bought it from the OO in `75.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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Thanks again Tom! I found an SG window sticker and BOS on Jeff's sight. I've looked at those before, but never in cross referencing the model number. I wonder what the chances are of getting the sport group option added to my COA. Seems the smoking gun would be the sway bars since those had to come from the factory. Given that it has ALL of the options in the PG package and NONE of the ones in the AG package, it seems kind of obvious. I have the warranty/service booklet for the car, but unfortunately, they didn't fill out the model number slot.

If I had an original window sticker, bill of sale, or the COA accurately listed the options the car came with, I'd put it back together exactly as it came from the factory/dealer. But since the COA is so vague and I have no other documentation, I've decided to take advantage of the lack of info to add a few option to improve comfort. These are: tinted glass, rear window defrost, leather wrapped wheel, and intermittent wiper. I may even add fog light some day as a mountain driving safety upgrade, but no immediate plans for that. I figure if there is no document that says it's wrong, why not?

[Tom_T]

Thanks again Tom! I found an SG window sticker and BOS on Jeff's sight. I've looked at those before, but never in cross referencing the model number. I wonder what the chances are of getting the sport group option added to my COA. Seems the smoking gun would be the sway bars since those had to come from the factory. Given that it has ALL of the options in the PG package and NONE of the ones in the AG package, it seems kind of obvious. I have the warranty/service booklet for the car, but unfortunately, they didn't fill out the model number slot.

If I had an original window sticker, bill of sale, or the COA accurately listed the options the car came with, I'd put it back together exactly as it came from the factory/dealer. But since the COA is so vague and I have no other documentation, I've decided to take advantage of the lack of info to add a few option to improve comfort. These are: tinted glass, rear window defrost, leather wrapped wheel, and intermittent wiper. I may even add fog light some day as a mountain driving safety upgrade, but no immediate plans for that. I figure if there is no document that says it's wrong, why not?

Brent -

You might have an outside chance of getting added, if you can find some of the old period "914 Sport" ads & dealer docs to send along with photo documentation of the PG/SG equipment - which only consisted of F & R sway bars (must have both), & the 2L Fuchs Wheels.

However, all of those could be added by later owners &/or by the original selling P+A dealer, as well as all of the items you listed as add-ons. It was very common for a customer/buyer to come in, ask for something on the 914 that they'd picked out, & then the dealer swapped &/or stripped those items off of another 914 on the lot.

There was one "914S" owner who got his listed as a "914S" on his COA & was written up in Steve's Ninefourteener magazine (member vendor on here), so maybe ther is hope for your "914 Sport" & other "914S" owners.
However, PCNA typically refuses to list included options for even the 911RS cars! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Maybe you could at least get them to list the appropriate CA or 49-state Model Number on your COA - if not the "914 Sport" moniker itself!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Same idea for the "914S" owners out there .... !? ... now I'm thinking about my COA! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

BTW - Rick Perkins (now PCNA's Nat'l Service Manager or such) who was with local SoCal P+A dealers back then told me that they could set 2 914s side-by-side & do a complete interior swap in 45 mins for a color change back then!

And that was in addition to the dealer scam of stealing the Fuchs & other allow spare wheels from the 914s & 911s/912s, then substituting a cheaper steel wheel spare, then selling off 4 of the stolen spares as a set for 100% profit. It was dealer theft & fraud so I call it that!

How do I know? Well, when I got mine from the OO - the spare had been stolen, they'd substituted 4 Rivieras for the 2L Fuchs, & literally cut-off the fog lights, took the dash switch leaving a hole & put on non-fog bumper grills. The OO had remover=d the center console for more room for his 2 kids taking them to school etc (they had #3 on the way, ergo why selling) - but stupid me never went back to get it from him, along with all of the original WS, BoS & other documents & manuals.

Ahhh the bliss of be in our 20's & stuck on stupid! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I actually liked the 5-spoke look of the Riviera wheels, & didn't miss the fogs or center console - but in recent years I've had to go out-of-pocket at much higher 2010's cost to reacquire those items for my resto back to as it would've been from the factory/dealer without all the other BS.

Those discrepancies were what got me on the path to fully research the correct "914S" fitment, the results of which I've shared on here.

As for your proposed upgrades - just try to do them so that they're reversible - & safely store all of your original parts from the changes - including window glass, just in case you or some future owner would want to put it back to original fitment.

The fog/driving lights have the harness connectors & mounting points on all 914s & the fog/no-fog grills are interchangeable, so just use them - but go with the white "Driving Lights" rather than fogs for you mountain driving upgrades, & consider swapping up to H$ or or sealed beam Halogen headlights with higher power 80/100W bulbs (you may need additional relays for them IIRC) also; the intermittent wiper is just cutting the wiper switch slot for that indent & getting the relay (Jeff Bowlsby sells them); leather wrapped steering wheels are an easy swap, as are the switch/relay & rear defrost window, while all of the other glass to tinted is a bit more work but doable.

GoWesty.com sells a contemporary T2 Bus high powered headlight upgrade for the 7" diam. headlights like our 914s of that era, which should work on our 914s too; & there used to be some member vendors & Porsche parts houses which sold them for our 914s. The fog & driving lights used/refsto'd come up on here, 914club, TheSamba, etc. all the time, & they still sell both the Porsche foglight grills, & 914Rubber makes repros.

A few years ago I changed our 88 VW Westy to their 80/100W + relays high power headlight upgrade, plus the factory fog/driving light option dash switch & brackets - but with smaller/brighter Hella "Micro FF" driving lights - from the OEM 45/55 dime headlight bulbs for similar reasons - & it made a HUGE difference!

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

[bbrock]

I thought I read somewhere that the performance group also included the center console with gauges but now I can't find where I read it. Maybe I made it up. I have yet to find any brochures or literature for 73 MY that lists the equipment in the Performance/Sport group. I have found 74 MY brochures that list PG as including: front/rear sway bars, alloy wheels, and front spoiler. That last is weird and makes me think the marketing dept. got the sport and LE models confused?

At any rate, my car came to me with:

- front/rear sway bars
- 5 fuchs 4-spokes (the reason I shelled out the whopping $500 to buy the car in 1985)
- center console.
- black bumpers
- plastic steering wheel
- single horn
- perlon carpet
- no sail vinyl (and no filled holes along the bottom)
- no fog lights

Good idea about trying to get the model number added to the COA. I just wish I had better documentation. I think the best evidence is that my chassis has front/rear sway bar mounts from the factory. My understanding is that cars ordered without sway bars didn't have those. Then it becomes reasonable that since the car had the other options in the performance group, it must have been a sport.

Yes, if I add fog lights, they will actually be driving lights. That's what I run on our DD and it really helps when the snow is flying in the air. You'll be disappointed, but I'll probably be running these headlights http://carmagic.us/led7.html It's just a matter of safety first for an easily reversible mod. Not only do we have weather to deal with, but every critter imaginable to watch out for. I also committed the sin of deleting the side markers during my resto. The decision was made easy by a DAPO that mounted one marker with sheet metal screws and caused the surrounding area to rust out. I had to patch it anyway and it was easier to weld both sides solid and get rid of those ugly things. I did make a template first so I can put them back if that ever becomes important. After all the work I've done on this rust bucket, punching those holes and painting the edges would be nothing.

Tinted glass was kind of a decision made for me. I pulled the original windshield decades ago to donate to one of my other teeners. It was badly pitted anyway. Getting OEM glass shipped out here would run $800 and not a good investment since Montana murders windshields. Our DD is on its 3rd windshield which is also cracked. The only practical option is Chinese glass which is only available tinted which is fine because I very much prefer it. Another member was passing my way and offered to deliver parts, so he brought me 2 doors and a set of tinted side glass. I do plan to store the original although there are some deep scratches in the side windows so might not be worth the hassle.

I already built my own intermittent wiper harness while I was restoring all my harnesses, so I'm set there.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1534454890_thumb.jpg)

I also have the rear defroster harness and switch and have fished it through the snorkel with the main. The glass is in Petaluma and will come my way eventually. My general feeling is that since Porsche didn't care enough to accurately list how this car was optioned on the COA, then whose to say what was original? Therefore, I have decided to take liberties to option the way I like within the limits of what was available as OE at the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mepstein]

I thought I read somewhere that the performance group also included the center console with gauges but now I can't find where I read it. Maybe I made it up. I have yet to find any brochures or literature for 73 MY that lists the equipment in the Performance/Sport group. I have found 74 MY brochures that list PG as including: front/rear sway bars, alloy wheels, and front spoiler. That last is weird and makes me think the marketing dept. got the sport and LE models confused?

At any rate, my car came to me with:

- front/rear sway bars
- 5 fuchs 4-spokes (the reason I shelled out the whopping $500 to buy the car in 1985)
- center console.
- black bumpers
- plastic steering wheel
- single horn
- perlon carpet
- no sail vinyl (and no filled holes along the bottom)
- no fog lights

Good idea about trying to get the model number added to the COA. I just wish I had better documentation. I think the best evidence is that my chassis has front/rear sway bar mounts from the factory. My understanding is that cars ordered without sway bars didn't have those. Then it becomes reasonable that since the car had the other options in the performance group, it must have been a sport.

Yes, if I add fog lights, they will actually be driving lights. That's what I run on our DD and it really helps when the snow is flying in the air. You'll be disappointed, but I'll probably be running these headlights http://carmagic.us/led7.html It's just a matter of safety first for an easily reversible mod. Not only do we have weather to deal with, but every critter imaginable to watch out for. I also committed the sin of deleting the side markers during my resto. The decision was made easy by a DAPO that mounted one marker with sheet metal screws and caused the surrounding area to rust out. I had to patch it anyway and it was easier to weld both sides solid and get rid of those ugly things. I did make a template first so I can put them back if that ever becomes important. After all the work I've done on this rust bucket, punching those holes and painting the edges would be nothing.

Tinted glass was kind of a decision made for me. I pulled the original windshield decades ago to donate to one of my other teeners. It was badly pitted anyway. Getting OEM glass shipped out here would run $800 and not a good investment since Montana murders windshields. Our DD is on its 3rd windshield which is also cracked. The only practical option is Chinese glass which is only available tinted which is fine because I very much prefer it. Another member was passing my way and offered to deliver parts, so he brought me 2 doors and a set of tinted side glass. I do plan to store the original although there are some deep scratches in the side windows so might not be worth the hassle.

I already built my own intermittent wiper harness while I was restoring all my harnesses, so I'm set there.



I also have the rear defroster harness and switch and have fished it through the snorkel with the main. The glass is in Petaluma and will come my way eventually. My general feeling is that since Porsche didn't care enough to accurately list how this car was optioned on the COA, then whose to say what was original? Therefore, I have decided to take liberties to option the way I like within the limits of what was available as OE at the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Steve deleted the side warts on his original six and recently sold the car for $130K so I wouldn't sweat it.

@bbrock

[bbrock]

Steve deleted the side warts on his original six and recently sold the car for $130K so I wouldn't sweat it.

@bbrock

I noticed that too. I've also noticed some of these cars selling for top dollar have hood badges (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif) . I guess tastes change though and I have a backup plan in case ugly warts become all the rage in a future market. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom_T]

I thought I read somewhere that the performance group also included the center console with gauges but now I can't find where I read it. Maybe I made it up. I have yet to find any brochures or literature for 73 MY that lists the equipment in the Performance/Sport group. I have found 74 MY brochures that list PG as including: front/rear sway bars, alloy wheels, and front spoiler. That last is weird and makes me think the marketing dept. got the sport and LE models confused?

At any rate, my car came to me with:

- front/rear sway bars
- 5 fuchs 4-spokes (the reason I shelled out the whopping $500 to buy the car in 1985)
- center console.
- black bumpers
- plastic steering wheel
- single horn
- perlon carpet
- no sail vinyl (and no filled holes along the bottom)
- no fog lights

Good idea about trying to get the model number added to the COA. I just wish I had better documentation. I think the best evidence is that my chassis has front/rear sway bar mounts from the factory. My understanding is that cars ordered without sway bars didn't have those. Then it becomes reasonable that since the car had the other options in the performance group, it must have been a sport.

Yes, if I add fog lights, they will actually be driving lights. That's what I run on our DD and it really helps when the snow is flying in the air. You'll be disappointed, but I'll probably be running these headlights http://carmagic.us/led7.html It's just a matter of safety first for an easily reversible mod. Not only do we have weather to deal with, but every critter imaginable to watch out for. I also committed the sin of deleting the side markers during my resto. The decision was made easy by a DAPO that mounted one marker with sheet metal screws and caused the surrounding area to rust out. I had to patch it anyway and it was easier to weld both sides solid and get rid of those ugly things. I did make a template first so I can put them back if that ever becomes important. After all the work I've done on this rust bucket, punching those holes and painting the edges would be nothing.

Tinted glass was kind of a decision made for me. I pulled the original windshield decades ago to donate to one of my other teeners. It was badly pitted anyway. Getting OEM glass shipped out here would run $800 and not a good investment since Montana murders windshields. Our DD is on its 3rd windshield which is also cracked. The only practical option is Chinese glass which is only available tinted which is fine because I very much prefer it. Another member was passing my way and offered to deliver parts, so he brought me 2 doors and a set of tinted side glass. I do plan to store the original although there are some deep scratches in the side windows so might not be worth the hassle.

I already built my own intermittent wiper harness while I was restoring all my harnesses, so I'm set there.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1534454890_thumb.jpg)

I also have the rear defroster harness and switch and have fished it through the snorkel with the main. The glass is in Petaluma and will come my way eventually. My general feeling is that since Porsche didn't care enough to accurately list how this car was optioned on the COA, then whose to say what was original? Therefore, I have decided to take liberties to option the way I like within the limits of what was available as OE at the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Brent,

I've listed the options in the AG & PG/SG in posts above & some of the pix from dealer docs, if you want the full listing. Also note that 74 MY was different from 73, & they charged extra for all options & groups.

They also may have added a spoiler to the PG after the LEs came out, because there was an options set which one could get in 74> which allowed one to set-up with many of the Can-Am/LE options on other 914s for the "look" - including both Fuchs 2L & Mahle Baby-gasburners with the Orange or Yellow painted centers). Jeff B's 914LE website has some info on that option package too (IIRC it included painted wheels, bumper, side-script, black painted trim & LE front spoiler).

I don't know for sure if the "914 Sport" came with the center console + PG/SG sways & Fuchs. It also could've been a factory add-on option, something that the original selling dealer added for a customer, or a later PO added console - as it was a very common thing to add.

Check with Dave K on whether the center console was included or an extra option.

Don't worry about your changes & mods - it's your car. I'm just providing the O&H info as best I can, &/or referring you to those who do like Jeff & Dave.

The LED headlight option is a good one - if it's the good quality one with good "throw" of the lighting (some cheaper ones are bright but don't throw out far enough), & you also have to be careful about the heat generated by the LED power converters (??) at the base, because they run hot & often more so than either of the old school halogen or incandescent types.

I converted our Westy's other exterior & some interior lights to LED for better brightness, but there weren't/aren't units yet AFAIK that work with the reflectors of the rectangular headlights in our T3B Vanagon Westy.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Tom_T]

Additional Info on the Demise of the 914, from another topic reply:

I have heard several stories about Porsche not wanting to do anything to mess with the 911 program. Like the one about the 914S.
It's my understanding that in 1973 when they came out with the 2 ltr motor, they launched in the US and a 914 S. It had its own brochure, all of the options and was shut down by Porsche because they did not want to compete with the 911S.
I am not trying to open this can of worms with anyone about is the 914 S real or not. What I want to know is, as protective as Porsche was about the 911 program, How did this affect the 914. Were the 914 De-tuned from what the original design specs were?

Matty - as others have pointed out, it was a more complex demise, than just not competing with the 911s.

As with the 2003> VW-Porsche JV vehicle collaboration Cayennes saving Porsche's financial butz - nearly in bankruptcy from 1996-2004 -

Likewise, our 914s' 118,000+/- in sales over 6 model years 70-76 (69 counting full 70 MY) saved Porsche's financial butz, because they could no longer sell large numbers of 911s, 912s were too expensive to build & sell at an entry level - read high sales volume - price due to their production costs & prices increases from their inception in `64. In fact the ongoing sales of 64-65 356's masked this economic reality with their parallel sales during those 2 MYs.

So why get rid of the butz-saving 914s? There was a combination of reasons:

1. Overpriced Body Shells from VW/Karmann Plant:

The VW reneging on the original "handshake deal" on the price to sell the 914 bodies to Porsche to produce the detuned 110 HP 914-6's put their sales pricing too close to the the nicer fitted out & higher 125 HP 911-T in 70-71 MYs - so most buyers never looked beyond that & shifting foibles, & would pay the extra +/- $500 for a 911-T - so it never really got rolling.

Also note that the 916 was never implemented because it's price was almost that of the comparably equipped 911E/911S of the time, & it would've certainly cut into some 911 sales with a comparable HP motor, while the 911 sales were also declining due to the currency escalation problem discussed below. The 916 project was discontinued after the first 11 prototypes, which were actually very well received in the market & automotive press, but the pricing of $14,000+/- was a question mark - given the oil crisis driven global recession of the mid-1970's - also made worse in the USA by the end of space race & Vietnam War driven production after 72-74>.


2. Continued High Body/Vehicle Pricing for 73-76 914s:

This higher than expected pricing continued for all 914-4s from 74> MYs - after Porsche took over the VW-Porsche JV - so it thereafter also increased the production cost basis of all 914s thereafter - as seen in the ever increasing prices - making the 914-2.0s also too close for comfort relative to better fitted-out & more powerful 911-Ts (& other base 911 models) - despite the by then recognized better handling 914s.

(Note that - IIRC - Porsche didn't begin factory racing with the 911s, until the 914-6 was waning.)


3. Currency Escalation Driving up Import Prices:

Added to the above, the W. German Deutche Mark (DM) was rapidly escalating against the US Dollar after then President Nixon took the dollar off the Gold standard, & it was allowed to float in the world monetary markets, in order to help keep USA products more competitive - but that likewise made other imports including cars more expensive after the dollar was no longer set by the US (Fed & Treasury Depts.).

This can clearly be seen in the rapid price escalation of the 73 Porsches of all types 914 & 911, & carrying on into 76 MY & beyond - further complicating Porsche's competitiveness in the USA, where 60% of their cars were then sold - which also affected their cars from 77> MYs, leading to their later financial viability crisis which the Cayenne solved.

I recently described in a reply to another similar post (maybe one of yours) as to how this price escalation to DM vs. dollar currency escalation was the actual demise of the "914S" nomenclature in the USA only (Note that both Japan kept "914S" & the UK kept 914 SC" thru to 76 MY), which I recently also added to my "914S".

It was NOT the much alleged concerns of PCA 911 owners, nor of Porsche concerns over competing with their top of the line 911S - think about those - who would EVER think a 80-95 HP 4-banger 914S was competition for a 911S with upwards of 180-210 HP - really, REALLY!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) - but ignore logic & facts to continue believing in those urban myths if you must.

Quite simply - Porsche could no longer keep selling a fully loaded 73 "914S" at it's original Aug 72 - March 73 price of $5299 (WCPOE), so they increased it to $7299 Mrch - June 73, & introduced a more basic "914 Sport" with only Performance Group options as their new "price leader 2.0" at $5299" for March - June 73.

Thereafter for 74> MYs Porsche further reduced their pricing risk by decoupling ALL options & option groups from ALL 914s, & made everything for extra cost - & they increased the cost of the options/groups - while the 2.0's base price stayed the same as what the prior 73 MY fully loaded "914S" had been increased to of $7299 - but now without ANY options!

Both the 75 & 76 MYs saw increases to base prices & options - & were all now higher than what the pre-73 DM escalation 911 prices had been!

There were 2 exceptions to offering options for a somewhat of a deal price - but both were low production number - thereby limited their losses - the 74 MY 914 LE/CanAms (1000 each color scheme) which actually only "included" a few options, & the close-out 76 MY 914-2.0s - which was done to get rid of them ASAP before what was to come next - & even then they were adding to the base price for the supposedly included options.

In reality at he end of the 914's run - you had no choice in 76 MY 2.0 options it was however they were built & shipped, & you paid the price - most of the ones that I looked at before buying my used 3 year old 73 "914S" were all priced at $8500+/- & over, with the anemic CA-Smog choked 78-80 HP!!

If you were of car buying or dreaming age then - you know what I mean about how ALL of the cool imported sports cars went way out of reach for most of us!

If you look at the production/sales numbers for the 914s at the info section here, you can see how this currency driven price escalation bled off 914 sales to just a few - after peaking in 73 MY - as it also did with 911 & 912E & 930 sales. Monthly sales rates on all Porsche models would show that drop off starting in March 73, as it did with ALL import car makers' vehicles.


4. Another Failed VW/Audi-Porsche JV Enters the Fray:

As they say on the TV commercials - "Butt Wait!" -

VW, Audi & Porsche were all concerned over being able to meet with aircooled engines, the soon to be & ever increasing smog control limits of California (60-70% of the USA Sales, which still ran 60-75% of worldwide Porsche sales = 36 - 52.5% of worldwide sales to California) - plus the other 49 states under EPA were soon to adopt the California emissions standards too nationwide.

Ergo, Porsche began designing their watercooled V8 for the 928, & VW/Audi started designing 4 & 5 cyl. inline watercooled engines for their Golf, Fox, 3000, etc. models - & they commissioned Porsche to design a VW/Audi sports coupe using their new I-4 watercooled motor.

VW/Audi went so far as to schedule complete retooling of the Karmann plant to build theri new sports car/coupe - but then backed out & cancelled the product. You will recall that ALL 76 MY 914-2.0s were built prior to Dec. 75, so that the Karmann plant could be retooled for that new car, & Porsche back-filled by installing the 2.0 Air-boxer in 911 shells - creating the short lived 912E produced at their Stuttgart plant's 911 line for +/- Jan - July 76 for 76 MY only.

Porsche had also taken over the cancelled VW/Audi sports car/coupe, & began producing it as their own 924 in 77 MY on.

So the 914 had no production line after Dec. 75, & there was no possible way to continue it's production, because all of the tooling had been worn out & never replaced - even if they wanted to move it to another plant from Karmann.


There are other factors which came into play for the 914's demise, but some urban myth about Porsche not liking the 914 to save the 911 wasn't one of them.

In fact, Porsche itself thought that the 911 line would be replaced by an all watercooled line of 924, 928 & other spin-off models by the early 1990's, & the last aircooled 911s were produced in 1993 MY due to the problems with aircooled engines not meeting the by then 50 State smog regulations.

However, Porsche did react to customer lash-back at their original watercooled planned replacements, & then went on in the mid to late 1980s to start design of the waterboxer six later used in the 996 & 986 lines of 911s & Boxsters/Caymans - with the 996 & 986 lines initially sharing full body/mechanical front end designs from the windscreen forward in order to save on costs - which were introduced as their diminishing sales 928s were phased out in 95-96 MYs.

As with most business issues - & car manufacturing is & always was a business - it was never some "911 jealousy" - but a complex set of world economic & automotive regulatory issues.

Happy Holidays! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif)
Tom
///////

[davep]

Great write-up Tom.

[Fritz356]

As the value of these cars rise and people love them more and more, the S will be talked about more and more and recognized as unique in its own right even if there wasn't anything unique about it besides the time frame it was produced and sold. Check out my attachment. My car was sold as an S roadster on the paperwork and that is what Mr Tobin thought he was buying.
To me its an S....

BTW in 67 they made fewer 911 non S cars. My 67 will some day be coveted as more rare than an S with "S oil tank and guages" iisted as options on the cardex as well as everything else the original owner could think to possibly order... Way more rare... Does that make it worth more than an S or any less fun to drive? I suppose that depends on how you drive and who the buyer is and what year we are living in...

So back to the 914... It just adds to the reasons to love a particular car...
I love both of mine because first and foremost they are fun to drive, which I do as often as possible.

Second I do all my own work and wrenching on them as a hobby as well as driving them.

914S perhaps.. 911S defiantly! Regardless all Pcars have a soul and can be loved for water reasons the current caretakers want.

I love my early 2.0 S Roadster.

Brian

[Tom_T]

As the value of these cars rise and people love them more and more, the S will be talked about more and more and recognized as unique in its own right even if there wasn't anything unique about it besides the time frame it was produced and sold. Check out my attachment. My car was sold as an S roadster on the paperwork and that is what Mr Tobin thought he was buying.
To me its an S....

BTW in 67 they made fewer 911 non S cars. My 67 will some day be coveted as more rare than an S with "S oil tank and guages" iisted as options on the cardex as well as everything else the original owner could think to possibly order... Way more rare... Does that make it worth more than an S or any less fun to drive? I suppose that depends on how you drive and who the buyer is and what year we are living in...

So back to the 914... It just adds to the reasons to love a particular car...
I love both of mine because first and foremost they are fun to drive, which I do as often as possible.

Second I do all my own work and wrenching on them as a hobby as well as driving them.

914S perhaps.. 911S defiantly! Regardless all Pcars have a soul and can be loved for water reasons the current caretakers want.

I love my early 2.0 S Roadster.

Brian

Cool Brian, Thanx for sharing!

I see that Mr. Tobin traded in an Olds Tornado - what a change! My Aunt had a string of Tornadoes every year they were out.

He also bought his about 3 weeks after my OO bought mine here in SoCal, in early Nov. `72.

I remember the dealers talked about the 914 2Ls as 914S in that time period, & all of their dealer brochures referred to them as 914S - so the invoice doesn't surprise me.

In the recent article about the history of the 914 which appeared in Panorama & has been posted on here, they referred to the two prototype 914-8 built for Messers. Porsche & Piech as the 914-S, so that may also explain why Porsche in Germany didn't like the VWoA Porsche+Audi Division here referring to the new 914 with the 2.0L 4 as the 914S. However, they never objected to either Japan using 914S, nor the UK using 914SC in their advertising etc.

I think there is still more details about the 914S story in the USA & Canada to be found, if there were anybody still around & familiar with it from both the USA P+A & Germany sides, to get the full details of what transpired, & why they had no problem with Japan & UK using 914S & SC.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////