The Legend of the "914 S" & "914 SC", Myth or Fact? Options

[Tom_T]

Frankly, I'm confussed by all this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) Is there a conclusion in less than 25 words?

1. Porsche+Audi marketed the 914/4 2.0 "fully loaded" as the "914 S" in ads & sales brochures from Summer 1972 to about Jan/Feb 1973, then Porsche made them stop.

2. The British Distributor similarly marketed the 914/4 2.0 from the outset through 1976 as the 914SC, but was never told to stop.

3. Neither was ever badged as either a 914S or 914SC.

4. If one is interested, read the stuff posted here from that 1970's period.

More than 25 words, but I'm sure you can wade through the 4 points if you're reading this.

WOW, all this bandwith summed up in 4 points. Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Sorry URY - in my enthusiasm to share stuff - I forget that some folks don't want to see/read all the other documents & stuff - & just want the "headline news" short-n-sweet, so I added a Cliff Notes summary as above at the front for others in your boat.

However, others of us enjoy reading & writing more details and appreciate the info., as well as the story behind them - as well as can be ferreted out at this point, and given "boardroom/corporate secrecy," long lost documents, etc.

[Tom_T]

... I'd wager it was written summer/fall of '72 - Porsche (or as R&T states the 'Home Office'), had already killed the 914 S attempt by NA

No Mike/All it was still in use in Nov/Dec `72 & the article was written or at least finalized around then - since my buddy & I got a tip from the LA Porsche+Audi sales manager when I went with him to look at the 914's during Nov. & Dec. `72 - & he & the sales people then still referred to the 2L as the "914S" & still were handing out brochures with 914S (which is where & when I got my original 12 pg. one). He told us in Nov. to go out to one of the canyon side roads off Mulholland Dr. (IIRC) where R&T was doing their pix for test drive from the Feb. 73 issue, where we saw them shooting that very same black 914 2.0 under that oak tree in the one pic, before they ran us off! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

1. Porsche+Audi marketed the 914/4 2.0 "fully loaded" as the "914 S" in ads & sales brochures from Summer 1972 to about Jan/Feb 1973, then Porsche made them stop.

Is this based on the MotorTrend and R&T articles? If so, with all due respect, this is an opinion based on an assumption. MT's January article calls it a 914S and a couple of months later R&T explains if differently?

I don't buy that at all. Those articles could have been - and probably were - written months before. The MT bit could have been written, edited and mocked to print by the time word came down on the name change. If they are anything like the publications I deal with, those mags are printed 2-2 1/2 months in advance of pub date which means final art for layout is a month plus ahead of that.

Yes it is in part based on those 2 articles from Jan. & Feb. 1973 - as well as from other articles in the 914 Portfolio book & other magazines, as well as in the Brian Long book and others. The story is around in many sources.

I believe that I backed my dating up by 2 months from Feb. 73 as the possible timing for the decree from PAG for P+A to stop, but even if it were 3-4 months as you suggest may have been the case - that is still Sept/Oct. of 72 - but their change wasn't fully implemented until sometime after Nov./Dec. `72 by my own personal & first hand experience at the time. However, up until this point my intent was only to provide period documentation on the subject at hand, rather than my college days "field trips" to the dealership a few blocks away & elsewhere.

I personally know because I was there with my own eyes & ears in Nov. & Dec. 1972 to see & hear the 914S term in use at Porsche+Audi dealerships, who continued using the 914 sales brochures & print ads with "914S" well into Dec. `72 & early 1973. If PAG had wanted to effect the change completely in the Summer or Fall of 1972 - as you are suggesting, then certainly they would not have been still handing out brochures with 914S in them during Dec. `72 & Jan. 73. Thereafter, from about Mar. 73 or so until the end of the 73 MY in June/July 73, they simply used the 914 designation alone with reference to the 2.0 motor - as I posted in the 2 post-change ads from Spring 73, as far as I can recall or have seen since.

IIRC - even Pat Garvey has said in the past that he recalled the dealer's sales people calling it a 914S &/or having the brochures with that terminology when he was in the in mid-1972 (Summer or Fall - I don't know which).

BTW - a group of us also went to the inaugural Long Beach Grand Prix the following model year, and asked the reps there "whatever happened to the "914S" designation?" upon seeing the new 74 MY brochures with "914 2.0," & they told us that Porsche told them to stop using it midway through the `73 model year.

Whether or not PAG wanted to end it before Dec. 72 - Jan. 73 - the "hard copy" fact remains that both print ads (I personally have a B&W 914S ad from a Dec. 72 publication) & magazine articles - in addition to the sales materials noted above - with "914S" references, were all still in circulation during Dec. 72 - Jan. 73. Ergo - it had NOT been fully withdrawn & wound-down until halfway through the 1973 MY - regardless of when PAG's intent, first notice, notifying R&T for their article, etc. occurred.

While it's interesting information on the timing of the R&T magazine article's possible publication process & timing - in terms of the function & presentation to consumers, it is a moot point because the public was still seeing "914S" all through the first 6+ months of the 73 MY - which is an undeniable fact per the publications posted here & elsewhere - whether you &/or others "buy it" or not.

Anyway, enough of this nonsense. The 914S has been a pet theme of Tom's since some of his earliest posts. More power to him for putting his thoughts down.

There is nothing further of value here for me so I'm done with this time waster.

cheers, mike.

Mike - perhaps you came into this thinking that this was my "pet theme" & therefore presumed that I was trying to prove something more than what happened in the "914S" saga? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

In previous posts I had reacted to some folks claiming that there never was anything at all about a "914S" - since I knew that there was from my personal first hand experience. Here I was just trying to provide some actual documentation to & references of the "914S marketing campaign", how it was presented in officially sanctioned documents & ads, & approximately the timing & duration of the campaign - nothing more.

There is more that you could add, if you have any further documents &/or information on the matters at hand......then by all means please do so! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

However, if your intent is to prove me wrong & question my & others personal first hand knowledge from that time - & try instead to make a case that is was a fluke ended by September of 1972 - then, yes you are wasting your time here because there were clearly documents & publications in circulation to the public with reference to "914S" up to & including at least January 1973 - irrespective of when they were prepared. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

If that is the case, then I really do not understand why you would want to take such a hard line position to shoot down myself & other members who were actually there "back in the day" buddy, cuz you're not usually that way on here!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Cheers Back at Ya! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[carr914]

So - let's put the debating of the issue of it aside, & focus on filling in any missing details

Tom, you kind of opened up that can-o-worms when you originally named this Thread "Myth or Fact" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The other thing is when you talk about what Dealership Salesman called the car. I guarantee you when I walk into a Dealership, I know more about the car I'm looking at than any Salesman in the place. Car Salesman are usually the laziest dumbass's on the planet. Heck a friend of mine bought a Dodge van a couple of years ago that the Saleman & accompaning paperwork said was a V-8 when it was a V-6. Boy did they eat that.

OK back to the subject, has anybody seen a 914SC? Also what do you think SC stands for?, because even the 911 guys can't come to an agreement on that.

T.C.

[MDG]

Tom, I'll go back on what I said about being done with this thread only to reply to your last post and only so you don't continue to misunderstand any of my posts.

I wasn't being hardnosed to anyone. My point about your 'pet theme 914S', frankly, is because you have brought this up more than anyone else ever has. It IS a recurring topic with you, Tom. I never said there was anything wrong with that.

I then said more power to you for putting it all down. Seems like a pat on the back to me, no?

My post you quoted - and edited - as you are well aware, was not even directed at you. I think my full response clearly shows what I was saying, to whom and why. And yes, with all due respect, for me this topic is a time waster. Just my opinion - don't expect you to share it . . .

and one question to go along with T.C.'s about the SC as I really don't remember; was the 911 even called an SC then? I thought that model name came a year or so after the demise of the 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I know there was a 911S when the ill-fated 914S arose but did Porsche even use the SC name during the 914 run?

Anyway, as a nice parting gift, here's a shot of my '73 2.0's ass (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[carr914]

The 911SC started in 78, but there was a 356 Carrera SC and now there is a New 911 Model SC ( but only available in Europe)

So during the era of the 914, the 911 models consisted of 911, T, E, some leftover L, R, S, Carrera 2.7, Carrera 3.0, Carrera RS, Carrera RSR, Turbo Carrera, & Carrera RS Turbo.

[MDG]

The 911SC started in 78, but there was a 356 Carrera SC and now there is a New 911 Model SC ( but only available in Europe)

So during the era of the 914, the 911 models consisted of 911, T, E, some leftover L, R, S, Carrera 2.7, Carrera 3.0, Carrera RS, Carrera RSR, Turbo Carrera, & Carrera RS Turbo.

Thank you, sir.

I thought the SC badging came about after the fact. So technically, and no Tom I am not slagging you here - just attempting to round out all the facts for the record, the UK 914SC was not a confilct of interest as far as piggy-backing onto the cachet of a concurrent 911 in the way the factory thought the 914S moniker was doing?

[URY914]

When in referance to a 914, the "SC" stood for "Slow Car".

[carr914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[sixerdon]

OK. Now I'll throw my .02 cents in.
I have here a copy of Christophorus No. 103, Feb '73 issue. For those that don't know, Christoforus has been the factory magazine issued every other month since the mid-50's. In this issue, it mentions that in early October, 1972, that "The traditional annual meeting of American Porsche-Audi Dealers was held in Germany for the first time." It goes on to say "Invited were all dealers........of the 14 P-A general distributorships in the US...and the P-A division of VoA, Inc."
"10 October: Conference in Ingolstadt. Highlight: the introduction of all 1973 models, particularly the 914/2.0 (two liter roadster) and Audi 80. Enthusiastic reception for these new cars."
So, what do you want to read into this? That the dealers are seeing these models up close for the first time at this time of year? Porsche has for many years introduced new models at the Frankfurt Auto Show just a few weeks before. It was the 911 RS that was the highlight, not the 914/2.0. And, you will notice that the factory refered to it then as 914/2.0.

Next is a PCA Panorama issue from 11/72 that describes ..."the introduction of the more powerful 914S, with a 2 liter engine..." and it goes on to list all the "standard equipment" (not optional as has been mentioned above) including the appearance group.

The 12/72 issue of Pano has an article by Chuck Stoddard, then PCA National Tech Chair and later PCA President. In his article he mentions the 914 2.0. No 'S' is mentioned at all. If you know Chuck, you will know that he had his own dealership in Willoughby, OH for many years before Porsche bought him out. (in the late 70's I believe) Chuck was the leading cheerleader for the 914 back in the day when many PCA members wanted to ban the 914 from PCA. When Chuck spoke on Porsche issues, people listened.

Given the time span between the 3 separate articles, it would seem IMHO that P-A and VoA were given the word by the factory to drop the 'S' from their ads at the annual meeting. Too late for the showroom brochures already printed for distribution, but remained available at the dealerships throughout the remainder of MY '73. (As far as I know, there was never a replacement.) The 11/72 Pano article was too late to rescind the 'S' since it would have gone to print by the time of the annual meeting. Chuck Stoddard, just back from that trip, very quietly cleared up the 'S' issue by just not mentioning it. It went away except for a few diehard supporters.

One more point I noticed in all of this. I have a rather substantial collection of showroom literature during that period. All 914 showroom brochures for the US market were printed in the US through 1973. After the 'S' fiasco, the '74, '75 & '76 brochures were printed in Germany. What does this tell you?

BTW, Tom, back in '72 it was Porsche K.G. not A.G.

Cheers,
Don

[Tom_T]

Tom, I'll go back on what I said about being done with this thread only to reply to your last post and only so you don't continue to misunderstand any of my posts.

I wasn't being hardnosed to anyone. My point about your 'pet theme 914S', frankly, is because you have brought this up more than anyone else ever has. It IS a recurring topic with you, Tom. I never said there was anything wrong with that.

I then said more power to you for putting it all down. Seems like a pat on the back to me, no?

My post you quoted - and edited - as you are well aware, was not even directed at you. I think my full response clearly shows what I was saying, to whom and why. And yes, with all due respect, for me this topic is a time waster. Just my opinion - don't expect you to share it . . .

and one question to go along with T.C.'s about the SC as I really don't remember; was the 911 even called an SC then? I thought that model name came a year or so after the demise of the 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I know there was a 911S when the ill-fated 914S arose but did Porsche even use the SC name during the 914 run?

Anyway, as a nice parting gift, here's a shot of my '73 2.0's ass (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Okay, okay Mike - I give, uncle, uncle! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) ! .. now you'll have folks contacting you for where you got that badge Mike! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The 911SC started in 78, but there was a 356 Carrera SC and now there is a New 911 Model SC ( but only available in Europe)

So during the era of the 914, the 911 models consisted of 911, T, E, some leftover L, R, S, Carrera 2.7, Carrera 3.0, Carrera RS, Carrera RSR, Turbo Carrera, & Carrera RS Turbo.

Yeah - I thought the 911 SC was after the 914 era, but that the SC was a carry over from the 356 era - as I'd recently read a Hemmings "Sports & Exotics" article about a guy restoring a 911SC & it referred to the 356 Carrera SC as its predecessor.

I think the issue is really - if the SC had no conflict & had a Porsche historical context from the 50's, then why not steer everyone worldwide to that if it had more marketing cachet, or just bite the bullet on the 914S similarity to the 911S & embrace it as tying the two lines together for better sales? Not fact, just more of my pondering what if's & why not's! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Tom, you kind of opened up that can-o-worms when you originally named this Thread "Myth or Fact" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The other thing is when you talk about what Dealership Salesman called the car. I guarantee you when I walk into a Dealership, I know more about the car I'm looking at than any Salesman in the place. Car Salesman are usually the laziest dumbass's on the planet. Heck a friend of mine bought a Dodge van a couple of years ago that the Saleman & accompaning paperwork said was a V-8 when it was a V-6. Boy did they eat that.

OK back to the subject, has anybody seen a 914SC? Also what do you think SC stands for?, because even the 911 guys can't come to an agreement on that.

T.C.

Well - many people think it was just some made up myth, but it was in fact a marketing campaign, but not an actual model per se. Screwy but true! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Agree on sales staff & even managers, my point was just that was how they were trained to "up sell" from the 1.7, and that the brochures were around along with print ads for the 6+ months of the campaign's run.

914SC was like the 914S - a marketing term only, no badges .......

... my thought on this 914S & 914SC Badge debate is:
"Badges! .... We don't need no stinking Badges! Ha, ha, ha, ha....!!!!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

TC, when I get a chance - I'll try to photo or scan the 914SC articles or parts thereof from that 914 Portfolio book I have with them in it. It was the same deal - talked up as 914SC but cars with typical Euro VW-Porsche-914 + 2.0 badges as at my first post.

OK. Now I'll throw my .02 cents in....

BTW, Tom, back in '72 it was Porsche K.G. not A.G.

Cheers,
Don

Thanx for all the info Don - just deleted repeating it here for brevity. I know it was KG then, but everyone here tends to use AG, so I was just going along with that, but probably be technically correct in these.

Clearly between what you just posted, the ads, articles, brochures & personal recollections of everybody - clearly P+A & the Brits & PKG were all over the place with the 2L 914/4 during it's first year in 73 MY!

IMHO, they should've picked something more consistent with their line-up & used either 914S or 914SC - over 914 2.0 (1.7 & 2.0 badges were only first used in 73 MY btw), so as to parallel the 911 line-up better, as well as to have the "sex appeal" of "S" or "SC" denoting the top of a particular model line - just as they did with the later 911 vs. 924, 944, 928 with similar S or SC tags, which seemed to work well for those models with no deleterious effects on the top o the 911 line S or SC. But again, just my postulating for the halibut! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Brits - where are you? We came to your aid in 1940-41, how abut returning the favor on the 914SC story!!??
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Bleyseng]

Porsche didn't "kill" the 914, VW did as they owed the Karmann plant and forced Porsche out as VW wanted the line for the new water cooled Scirroco. Porsche tried and failed to find a suitable affordable place to setup the line to keep production going but failed. The 76 MY cars bodies were made in 1975 and at the Christmas break the line was switched over to Scirroco producion. This is why Porsche came out with the 912E, to fill the gap in their line with a inexpensive car after the 914's were sold out. So you could add the 2100 912E cars to see about how many 76 914's should have sold. The question is how long would Porsche continue selling the 914 at 6-7000 cars a year? What would they have done to upgrade the model line "IF" VW hadn't pulled the assembly plant from under them...
Remember, Porsche fully owned the 914 from mid 74 as they had bought out VW at that time. They had plans for the 914 but when VW announced their plans in 1975 for the Karmann plant Porsches plans went up in smoke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The 924 is another story as VW pulled out of the production of this car at the final moment and the Audi plant were the cars were going to be made came to Porsche with a sweetheart deal to distribute the cars as Porsches.

I

Okay - I got your point after the 4th one posted! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ... twitchy finger I guess!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

I was aware the Porsche switched to the 924 after VW backed out & that before that they explored various options with the 914, but was not aware that they were booting the 914 from the Karmann plant to make room for Scirocco production.

I think that Porsche probably would've moved to the 924 though, even if they still had the Karmann plant's line available, because they wanted to try out water cooled.

What theneeded was to continue the 73 & 74 sales volume in the 20,000+ range, but the prices had just climbed too high by 75 to sell that many, plus we had a pretty bad recession here then too, depressing sales (as today).

One huge problem for all imported car makers were threatened tariffs, bad monetary exchange rates (for them importing), & the runaway inflation of the 70's, which had 76 914's selling for about what the 911s did when the 914s came out in 69/70! By 76 a 914-2L with the option cost for the AG & PG options was north of $8000 out here in CA, but smog detuned to 86 hp.

While in Fall 75 I could've gotten a new 76 2L on 100% loan vs. 75% used for my 73 2L & have about the same payments, I didn't like the big bumpers nor the lower power engine ~ & today I'd still be required to smog it every other year! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

About the 924, it was a VW sports car that Porsche had helped design for Audi to build. Everything was set to release the car as a VW when they changed their mind so the Audi plant went to Porsche and set up the deal for them to Market it or they would close the plant, layoff workers etc. Was a watercooled car in their plans? I don't think so especially one with that weak Audi 4 cylinder engine. That the 924 fit into the hole so nicely after VW also helped to kill the 914 helped Porsche to decide to go ahead with the car. Then it sold fairly well and Porsche designed the 944 which really is a Porsche water cooled sports car.
In 74-77 Porsche was just trying to stay alive in those troubled economic times with the value of the dollar dropping like todays Euro killing German cars sales in the States. 911 sales weren't that great either then due to the cost...
Dr. Ernst Fuhrmann planned to cease the 911 during the 1970s, and replace it with the V8-front engined grand sportswagon 928 so what his plans were for the 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[sixerdon]

The "SC" badging for the 356 SC and the 911 SC were not the same meaning.
Throughout the 50's until 1965 the 356's were given model names beginning with 356, 356A, 356B, and finally 356C. The 356C came in three engine versions. The the 1600 "C", "SC" and the 2 liter 4-cam Carrera. (There was no Carrera SC) The "S" stood for Super and was added as the more powerful of the two push rod engines available. Porsche has been using the "S" branding since 1952 when they introduced the 1500 Super.
The 911 SC (1978 MY) stood for Super Carrera. The "S" still stood for Super and followed the '77 911S. But, the rest of world had a 3.0 Carrera model (not the turbo) in '76 & '77. So Porsche labeled the new 911 standard model "SC", Super Carrera.
That's it in a nut shell. 914SC?? Haven't a clue. (It did have a more powerful engine than the US version)
Don

[ME733]

..............So DOES ANYONE, ...have any idea if ALL the 1973 MY ...914, 2.0 cars were produced with all -included options-.(about 16-17 of them)......

[ME733]

The "SC" badging for the 356 SC and the 911 SC were not the same meaning.
Throughout the 50's until 1965 the 356's were given model names beginning with 356, 356A, 356B, and finally 356C. The 356C came in three engine versions. The the 1600 "C", "SC" and the 2 liter 4-cam Carrera. (There was no Carrera SC) The "S" stood for Super and was added as the more powerful of the two push rod engines available. Porsche has been using the "S" branding since 1952 when they introduced the 1500 Super.
The 911 SC (1978 MY) stood for Super Carrera. The "S" still stood for Super and followed the '77 911S. But, the rest of world had a 3.0 Carrera model (not the turbo) in '76 & '77. So Porsche labeled the new 911 standard model "SC", Super Carrera.
That's it in a nut shell. 914SC?? Haven't a clue. (It did have a more powerful engine than the US version)
Don

............during the ...356.."A..&."B" model production there was a S-90, pushrod engine., which was the highest output pushrod engine....there were a few 356-S-90 GT cars also produced...and badged that way.--just to add a little detail to your post.

[Tom_T]

... and it goes on to list all the "standard equipment" (not optional as has been mentioned above) including the appearance group.

Just to clarify for others on Don's earlier comment above, per the Porsche+Audi brochure page below (originally posted at post #7), refers to: "Some of the other things that are optional on the 914, but come as standard equipment on the 914 S are ....", which also comes through in some other documents and ads.



The Appearance & Performance Groups (AG & PG) had been long standing "extra cost options" for the 914 line-up since the 70 MY as extra cost options or upgrades. The were included on only the 73 MY as a no extra cost items (options, upgrades, etc. - you pick), then reverted back to extra cost items in the 74-76 MY 2L models (as well as for the 1.8L).

~ That is, except that the 1000 74 MY LE's included some of the AG & PG options in their "Optional Equipment Package M-778 (Can Am Equipment)" - but provided accent color painted (yellow or orange) Mahle 4-lug cast alloy wheels instead of the Fuchs forged alloy "2 Liter" wheels of the PG; and also deleted the black rollbar/sail vinyl & anodized/polished aluminum trim and deleted the chrome bumpers (in favor of the yellow or orange painted ones) from the AG option list. However - the M-778 was still an extra cost option - not included in a base price.
(see: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/ & click at the "914 LE - Limited Edition" in the left sidebar)

Ergo, even these did not break the "extra cost option" policy from 74-76 MY, not from the earlier 70-72 MY's & with regard to the 73 MY 1.7L models.

So for clarity relative to all 70-76 MYs & models, I have been referring to them here when included on the the "914 S" 914-2.0 73 MY cars as "included options/upgrades" & specifying that this is included in the base price for the 73 MY ones only - just to acknowledge that they were both N/C items within the base price, but which were otherwise normally optional extra cost equipment upgrades on all 914s for the other models & years.

[Tom_T]

..............So DOES ANYONE, ...have any idea if ALL the 1973 MY ...914, 2.0 cars were produced with all -included options-.(about 16-17 of them)......

Murray, that's a hard one to pin down unfortunately, but I'll take a guess at it below.

Also to clarify - there were still other additional options which one could add to the "914S" fully loaded set-up - so they were not all inclusive on options beyond the AG & PG sets of options included in the base price as "standard equipment" on the "914-2.0" or "914/2.0" per the factory info. quoted previously by Don, or per the ads & brochures from Porsche+Audi "914S" as I've posted some examples here previously, which appeared to continue even in the "post-914S era" ads - which leads one to believe that perhaps they only offered lesser equipped 73 MY 2L models as a request item; or as a few later 73 MY "lower price point cars" as the prices got jacked up by Porsche over the late 73 MY, in order to have a sort of "loss leader" to pull buyers in.

Beyond the AG & PG options included under the 73 MY 914 2L / "914 S" program here in the US/Can, there were additional options which could be added at extra cost, such as adding Bilstein shocks, rear window defrost, tinted windshield or tinted glass all around (except rear window - my early-73 "914 S"/914-2.0 had this extra option), factory body undercoating, factory radio install kit, etc., as listed at Jeff Bowlsby's site (see link below). However, these would vary by car & I have no idea how many were ordered with the extra goodies.

Steve Gaglione &/or Jeff Bowlsby may be able to weigh in on whether & when the 73 MY 2L cars were ever offered in the USA/Can without all of those AG+PG options later in the Spring of 73 as perhaps what we'd call today an "option delete" to drop the price a bit as they raised the 914 2L price (1.7 too) at least twice in the Spring of 73, primarily due to the runaway exchange rates between the Deutche Mark (West Ger.) & US Dollar, causing Porsche lose their profit margin over costs as compared to the initial $5099/$5299 price for the "914 S" / 914 2.0.

The Model Numbers & Window Stickers at the two links below seem to suggest that they were available with lesser trim packages, but I read in one or more of the books, articles, etc. out there, that the early model year 73 2Ls were requested by Porsche+Audi to be "loaded" with the extra equipment to overcome a feared negative reaction to a 2.0 4 cyl. 914 at about the same price as the last 71 MY 914-6 generally available in the USA/Can.

Others like Steve & Jeff have said that the 73 MY 2L were available with less equipment fitted, so if anyone has any documentation to support that, then it would be great if you could post pix of the window sticker &/or dealer bill of sale/invoice with the equipment fitment & price info. here for all to see.

It's a real spit-in-the-wind guess at when to look for VINs on window stickers/BOSes to switch to non-loaded 914 2L/"914 S" set-ups, since 12,874 914 2L cars were built in 1972 calendar year (see chart in post #25), but some wouldn't be shipped to the USA/Can until 1973 calendar year & some were sent elsewhere - but the VINs do not track with production sequences exactly - we can only guess that somewhere around VIN ...08000 to ....10000 +/- were actual sold while the "914 S" marketing campaign & ostensibly "loaded" AG+PG 2L's were being imported.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm

VIN 4732901085 shows the $5299 for West Coast POE "914 S" as quoted in the 2 MT & R&T articles & lists all of the AG+PG - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732901085.jpg

VIN 4732913069 shows it at $5149 for the 473764 Model supposedly for PG only, but it lists the AG's center console, leather steering wheel & shifter boot, center storage & only $150 less than the Calif. AG+PG $5299 ~ so this could represent a customer request to delete the chrome bumpers/fog lights, rollbar vinyl/brightwork ~ or maybe even an error on the sticker?? - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732913069.jpg

The earlier VIN 4732911557 does similarly on the equipment, but is much less base price at $4825 & wasn't sold until 3/19/73 according to the BOS - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732911557.jpg

At VIN 4732917992 it had gone to $5649 base price - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732917785.jpg

By VIN 4732926371 (Steve's Sahara Beige) - the model # 473664 Calif. 2L with both AG+PG base price had grown to $5800, but this is a late 73 MY months after the "914 S" marketing campaign had been completely withdrawn - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732926371.jpg

But then again, VIN 4732927086 at a later VIN & similar 473644 non-CA with both AG+PG 2L model was only $5700 (maybe less as a non-Calif. 914-2L??) & it was apparently not sold until Nov. 197(4)?? - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732927086.jpg & BOS http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zBOS4732927086.jpg

{Note - VIN 4732901954 on this list is mine, but the COA is listed under the WS column by mistake, and Jeff is still using the old erroneous COA - but I've sent him the corrected one from PCNA, which properly shows it as a "914 2.0" (not "914 S" by the way), with a GA in front of the engine case no., & the #31 interior code correctly listed as "Beige." Unfortunately I never got the owners manual - let alone the window sticker or BOS - when I bought it used back in 1975. Frankly, most of us were shortsighted & didn't worry about such details back then, & were just happy to get one to drive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) ~ Live & learn! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) }

Given the above, we've introduced yet another version of "model numbers" which related to designating which engine, which trim levels & where to be sold for the benefit of the factory, distributors & dealerships in identifying the various models & pricing. As with the "914S" & "914SC", these were never badged on the cars themselves, but rather appeared in the window stickers (Munroney Stickers), dealer invoices & Bills of Sales, dealer/distributor pricing & order documents & catalogs, etc., - more as a form of "Inventory Control" if you will.


EXTRA INFO LINKS

For those not familiar with the 74 LE/CanAm version of the 914 2.0, look here:
http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

For those wanting more info. on all 914 options offered, read these two:
http://www.p914.com/
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

... and then go on to read the rest of the excellent 914 info linked from the main webpage of the latter above, here:
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[sixerdon]

The "SC" badging for the 356 SC and the 911 SC were not the same meaning.
Throughout the 50's until 1965 the 356's were given model names beginning with 356, 356A, 356B, and finally 356C. The 356C came in three engine versions. The the 1600 "C", "SC" and the 2 liter 4-cam Carrera. (There was no Carrera SC) The "S" stood for Super and was added as the more powerful of the two push rod engines available. Porsche has been using the "S" branding since 1952 when they introduced the 1500 Super.
The 911 SC (1978 MY) stood for Super Carrera. The "S" still stood for Super and followed the '77 911S. But, the rest of world had a 3.0 Carrera model (not the turbo) in '76 & '77. So Porsche labeled the new 911 standard model "SC", Super Carrera.
That's it in a nut shell. 914SC?? Haven't a clue. (It did have a more powerful engine than the US version)
Don

............during the ...356.."A..&."B" model production there was a S-90, pushrod engine., which was the highest output pushrod engine....there were a few 356-S-90 GT cars also produced...and badged that way.--just to add a little detail to your post.

Sir, you are incorrect on several points. The S-90 was introduced as a 356B model from 1960-63 MY. It was not the "highest output pushrod engine". The 356 SC was from '64-'65 MY. The 356B S-90 GT's were custom ordered (extremely rare) and featured a very light weight body. I don't want to go into details on 356's here. This is not a 356 forum. I suggest you visit the 356 Registry web site and learn all you want about 356's.
Cheers,
Don

[Tom_T]

The "SC" badging for the 356 SC and the 911 SC were not the same meaning.
Throughout the 50's until 1965 the 356's were given model names beginning with 356, 356A, 356B, and finally 356C. The 356C came in three engine versions. The the 1600 "C", "SC" and the 2 liter 4-cam Carrera. (There was no Carrera SC) The "S" stood for Super and was added as the more powerful of the two push rod engines available. Porsche has been using the "S" branding since 1952 when they introduced the 1500 Super.
The 911 SC (1978 MY) stood for Super Carrera. The "S" still stood for Super and followed the '77 911S. But, the rest of world had a 3.0 Carrera model (not the turbo) in '76 & '77. So Porsche labeled the new 911 standard model "SC", Super Carrera.
That's it in a nut shell. 914SC?? Haven't a clue. (It did have a more powerful engine than the US version)
Don

Don, in the prior posts I'd mentioned that the "S" for "Super" - as used in the "The Super Porsche" ad for the "914 S" (red car & in B&W version for readable detail in my initial set of posts here), was indeed based upon & more consistent with historical Porsche naming - including the 356 S & 911S.

This book is still in print & readily available, so I'm not going to tempt fate & post pix of pages from it here, but I've given page references & titles below FYI of all, as well as the ISBN - so you can Google for the best price & get one yourself, which BTW includes the Jan 73 MT & Feb 73 R&T articles discussed & excerpts from same posted previously here, long with others.


Neither the Jan. 20 1973 "VW-Porsche 914SC Road Test" article from "MOTOR" (pg. 150), nor the later April 1975 "914 SC the Very Practical Sports Car Road Test" article from "Modern Motor" (pg. 185) in my "PORSCHE 914 - Ultimate Portfolio" book (compiled by R.M. Clark, publ. by Brooklands Books ISBN 1-85520-4320) gives any enlightenment on what the "914SC" stood for.

However, the former article says that - due to the increased cost, UK import tariffs & less perceived value for the 1.7L model at this point (late 72/early 73), that from the 73 MY on when the 2L (100 hp Euro spec ~ 5 more hp than the 95 hp US spec using the same DIN method, 91 hp was the SAE method on the USA 2L)) was available, the Brit's importer AFN Ltd. only brought in the 2.0 914SC (presumably through the end of the run in the 76 MY), except that a customer could special order a 1.7L model (presumably 1.8L 74-76). The second article was an Aussie publication testing perhaps the sole Crayford RHD conversion in Australia (aside from later "relocations" by buyers there).

.

How about "SC" for "Small Car" - like this one?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


.

.

.

Also of interest in that book compiling 914 articles was - as late as March 1973 "Sports Car World" ran an article here in the USA on "Truly a Fun Car - 914 S Road Test" (pg. 158) - at the same time as "Car & Driver" ran their March 1973 "Porsche 914 2.0 Road Test" (pg. 167)! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

So the former article apparently slipped by the "Porsche KG Name Police" as late as around Dec. 72 or so - or they chose to flat out ignore them, while C&D did not!!??
Sich Heil der Porsche!!!!

... sorry, I couldn't resist adding some more humor, with that mustache this guy chose!


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[Tom_T]

About the 924, it was a VW sports car that Porsche had helped design for Audi to build. Everything was set to release the car as a VW when they changed their mind so the Audi plant went to Porsche and set up the deal for them to Market it or they would close the plant, layoff workers etc. Was a watercooled car in their plans? I don't think so especially one with that weak Audi 4 cylinder engine. That the 924 fit into the hole so nicely after VW also helped to kill the 914 helped Porsche to decide to go ahead with the car. Then it sold fairly well and Porsche designed the 944 which really is a Porsche water cooled sports car.
In 74-77 Porsche was just trying to stay alive in those troubled economic times with the value of the dollar dropping like todays Euro killing German cars sales in the States. 911 sales weren't that great either then due to the cost...
Dr. Ernst Fuhrmann planned to cease the 911 during the 1970s, and replace it with the V8-front engined grand sportswagon 928 so what his plans were for the 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) ..... except ......
IIRC - Porsce's Engineering branch was already exploring other water cooled engines at the time they designed the 924 for VW, so they had at least started lookng at them by then. I recall one of my bosses in early 1975 complaining about the design studies of a postulated water cooled 911 version to come, because he felt it ruined the look & lines of the 911 - he being a 60's 911 owner & short body lover.

IMHO, the 944 & 968 are not much more than an updated 924 or more refined/developed version of it, & the 928 was a German 'Vette with a back seat & the current WC Porsches are the real "NARP's"!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) .... but then I'm an aircooled kinda guy, like you are! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

BTW all others out there, the 74 MY 914 sales were their second best overall at over 20,000 (behind 27,000+ in 73 MY the subject here), but were flagging to the problematic monetary exchange rate whih Don, I & others have indicated here, & Don's comparison to the 2008-09 run up of the Euro vs. US Dollar affecting Porsche sales is a great current events parallel to what was going on in the 1970's, and the Boxster/Cayman sales now are about what the 914s' were back then - despite worldwide population growth!
Makes one think! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Interesting stuff, but mostly a sideline to the "914S" & "914SC" story.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[SirAndy]

Also what do you think SC stands for?, because even the 911 guys can't come to an agreement on that.

SC = Sport Coupe


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy