External Oil Cooler, let me see some pictures Options

[bugsy0]

realred914 - so what I hear you saying is I can get effective cooling using a horizontally mounted unit - eliminates much of the risk of damage from debris. sounds good - thanks.

now can I get away w/ a horizontal mount and no fan to make it even simpler?

[VaccaRabite]

now can I get away w/ a horizontal mount and no fan to make it even simpler?

In short, no.

The long answer is a little more complicated.
With a oil cooler you are adding more oil. Natural convection will provide SOME cooling without a fan, since you are putting a big heat sink in the line. But what you are doing is giving yourself more time before your oil heat soaks and you eventually build up to nearly the same temps that you were seeing pre-cooler. If you don't do a lot of long drives, this may be perfectly fine. If your OTs were only marginally high to begin with, the extra surface area may be enough to get you back into the safe zone- especially if you keep your drives to about 40 miles or shorter on hot days.

But, IMHO, unless you are willing to put your cooler in the nose of the car, you need a fan, or you need cool air ducted directly to the cooler, like what Elliot did.

Zach

[realred914]

realred914 - so what I hear you saying is I can get effective cooling using a horizontally mounted unit - eliminates much of the risk of damage from debris. sounds good - thanks.

now can I get away w/ a horizontal mount and no fan to make it even simpler?

we found the fan is needed on extended drvies to get to the target temp of 180F. without the fan, we'd hit near 200F -210F an improvement over no cooler, but not good enough. just follow tradisrads project on this post, he has photos of the set up above the transmission, 72 plate cooler with a six inch fan.


stay cool!

[bandjoey]

Ok. It looks hip to have lots of chrome and stuff hanging off of the motor and for a big motor understandable that more cooling is needed than factory.

For a stock non air conditioned 1.8 daily driver, why an oil cooler??? Didn't the factory put enough oil cooler on the car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Mark Henry]

Ok. It looks hip to have lots of chrome and stuff hanging off of the motor and for a big motor understandable that more cooling is needed than factory.

For a stock non air conditioned 1.8 daily driver, why an oil cooler??? Didn't the factory put enough oil cooler on the car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

You don't need one, unless you do AX/track.

[brant]

finally doing my install today of the atomic derale.
anyone have pictures of how they routed the oil lines from the cooler to the sandwhich adapter...

I have heat exchangers and also J tubes....
not a lot of room up there left to put stuff into
- I hate running against the exhaust (heat the oil worse)
- on the other hand, I could squeeze by the valve covers, but future valve adjustments will be impossible or at least harder.
- I'm considering cutting through the tin and into the engine bay, but don't know where to come back down at to clear everything and hit the sandwhich.
- Since the swing arm needs space, I was avoiding it all together, but maybe I can go over it? and then come back from the front?

any pictures of routing from folks (especially with stock heat exhchangers, and the stock -4 engine bar) would be great!

brant

[tradisrad]

Brant, I hope this will help. Let me know if I can take any other pictures. It a bit of a tight fit, but I thought it was better than running the line next to the exhaust and valve cover. Also there is a "high" point in the lines so the cooler wont drain all of its oil.
-Rob

[brant]

awesome
thanks Rob!

nice job
brant

[qa1142]

Very smart hose routing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Any pictures near sandwich adapter?

[qa1142]

Very smart hose routing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Any pictures near sandwich adapter?

[tradisrad]

Very smart hose routing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Any pictures near sandwich adapter?

Back on page two there is a picture of the sandwich adapter and the hoses going up into the engine compartment.

[qa1142]

I purchased blue hose to do my install with, I like your cloth covered hose better

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)


Matches rest of injection hose better, where did you get that?

[tradisrad]

The hose is Nylon Braided AN Hose. This hose size is AN10 and was about $10 a foot and I used 8 or 9 feet. I got it local to me at Gotelli Speed Shop. I bet it is available just about any where.

I know that High Performance House has the real Porsche oil hoses; I am using that for my breather hose.. wonder if I could have used it for my oil cooler? it can be seen in one of my pictures it is lighter in color.

[qa1142]

$3.20 a foot

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/102231/10002/-1

[tomeric914]

Brant, I PM'd you some pictures.

Routing the lines through the sheet metal, while clean, is risky even with grommets on all of the sheet metal passages.

Running next to the valve cover is less of a risk (in my opinion) and easier to inspect and/or replace the hoses. They are also plenty far away from the exhaust. The hoses easily pull out of the way to pull the valve covers and adjust the valves.

The hoses are tie wrapped together making them stiff yet not to require any additional support yet flexible enough to allow for movement and expansion.

The picture below is from 2 years ago when I first installed the cooler. The car has since been driven about 10,000 miles and multiple track events with no oil issues.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm5.static.flickr.com-9101-1284865633.1.jpg)

[tradisrad]

Brant, I PM'd you some pictures.

Routing the lines through the sheet metal, while clean, is risky even with grommets on all of the sheet metal passages.

Running next to the valve cover is less of a risk (in my opinion) and easier to inspect and/or replace the hoses. They are also plenty far away from the exhaust. The hoses easily pull out of the way to pull the valve covers and adjust the valves.

The hoses are tie wrapped together making them stiff yet not to require any additional support yet flexible enough to allow for movement and expansion.

The picture below is from 2 years ago when I first installed the cooler. The car has since been driven about 10,000 miles and multiple track events with no oil issues.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm5.static.flickr.com-9101-1284865633.1.jpg)

That is simple and you wont have any rubbing issues with the hose going through the sheet metal, but you don't have heat exchangers and you have more room to work. I am not sure there is a right or wrong way and with preventative maintenance any routing will work.

[tomeric914]

That is simple and you wont have any rubbing issues with the hose going through the sheet metal, but you don't have heat exchangers and you have more room to work. I am not sure there is a right or wrong way and with preventative maintenance any routing will work.

I agree, heat exchangers will add to the complexity. Your installation is slick!

I also installed a remote cooler on a car with heat exchangers the same way mine is installed but don't have any pics.

[914werke]

I recently started down this same path and the first place I went to research was the "Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum"

Specifically I was hoping to find a description/diagrams and pro/cos for the various solutions: Sandwich to nose, to trunk floor, Full flow (?), other setup ..ect.
But there is no OIL LINE/COOLER INSTALLATION thread there presently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Sooo.... I nominate this one!

It would be nice to merge other Oil related upgrade threads into this one , example:
I recall another thread that detail tapping the case below the OE cooler and required clearancing of motor mount brkt ? What about filter relocation ?
Deep sump, tuna can & dry sump perhaps can go into a separate thread?

What do you think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[McMark]

Great idea! Done! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[realred914]

I recently started down this same path and the first place I went to research was the "Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum"

Specifically I was hoping to find a description/diagrams and pro/cos for the various solutions: Sandwich to nose, to trunk floor, Full flow (?), other setup ..ect.
But there is no OIL LINE/COOLER INSTALLATION thread there presently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Sooo.... I nominate this one!

It would be nice to merge other Oil related upgrade threads into this one , example:
I recall another thread that detail tapping the case below the OE cooler and required clearancing of motor mount brkt ? What about filter relocation ?
Deep sump, tuna can & dry sump perhaps can go into a separate thread?

What do you think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

filter location can be an issue with the sandwhich adaptor used in tradisrads installation. thermostat equiped sandwhich adaptors are kind of tall, and that lowers the oil filter. the stock sized OEM filter is now out of production, but there is a shorter version that is now sold , that will give more clearance with the sandwhich adaptor in place.

for me I will be likely going full flow off the oil filter mounting bracket point on the case. will have two hoses there in and out, then run a remote High Pressure filter and follow that with a plate type cooler simular if not the same as tradisrads. along with an electric fan.


to answer the other question, Yes even stock cars can benifit from an oil cooler, these cars even when new could run hot.

hot climate steep hills can cause oil to get beyond my confmort range (180F is nice, 200 F is hot, and above 220 F it is a probelm as oil pressure wil start to drop (viscosity lowers) beyond this point.

you can see these temps on a hot day.

new oxygenated fuels cause our cars to run hotter (lean burn) since are ecu can not adjust for it (cars with an O2 sensor can adjust and with carbs, you can re-jet)

add that many engiens may have been rebuilt with less than optimal compression, and other engines have dirty cooling fins, and you can get even more high temps.

so yes a stock motor can usually benifit from an external oil cooler. if you see high temps above 220F, then you shoudl consider it (make sure rest of cooling system is in good shape first!)