Replaced my ignition switch (again). Will it solve my start problem?, PLUS I awoke the seat buzzer! Options

[orthobiz]

When I got my 74 1.8 three years ago, it had a new aftermarket ignition switch that went bad immediately. I replaced it with another aftermarket switch but last summer it occasionally would not start, hot or cold. Most recently, I jiggled the key in order to get it to start so I assumed it was the switch again.

So today I replaced the switch with an OEM (Switch Pics in the Parts Vault). But the old switch looked fine. Couldn't detect any cracks, maybe there's internal damage? I had once read about some subtle differences in the switches but could not detect any. Anyone know if the switch can fail and look good externally? This is the fourth switch in the car, including the original, so I'm getting suspicious something else might be wrong.

So I put it together and it starts, but the seat buzzer began to go wild whenever I turned the switch. I went back into the garage later and it stopped! Brad Mayeur had worked on it before I got it and disabled it for me.

Any thoughts appreciated. I want the car more reliable; I've only been able to take short jaunts where I don't have to stop!

Paul

[Mark Henry]

Is it just the starter or is the whole ar dead?

Have you tried a Ford solenoid?

[orthobiz]

I keep thinking switch but maybe I should replace the starter, maybe they become unreliable over time.

Don't know about the ford solenoid, though. Can you tell me more?

Paul

[Mark Henry]

With wire, conectors and a fender mount ford solinoid under $20

The center wire is where I connect the factory wire.

[Mark Henry]

If you carefully bend the bracket and make the hole bigger you can mount it on the bottom starter bolt (stud).

[Kirmizi]

Paul, I had same thing happen to me with a cheapie ignition switch, looked fine but didn't work so well. I eventually replaced it with an OEM version that fit much better into the steering column and haven't had a problem since. As for the seat belt buzzer going off, how many connectors were on the back of your new switch?
6 or 4? IIRC the later model (75-76) switches have two more prongs for the seat belt warning buzzer and dash light.
Mike

[orthobiz]

Paul, I had same thing happen to me with a cheapie ignition switch, looked fine but didn't work so well. I eventually replaced it with an OEM version that fit much better into the steering column and haven't had a problem since. As for the seat belt buzzer going off, how many connectors were on the back of your new switch?
6 or 4? IIRC the later model (75-76) switches have two more prongs for the seat belt warning buzzer and dash light.
Mike

Both switches have 7 connectors and look externally alike. Once I had the switch screwed in, it seemed to fit the same, OEM and cheapie.

Here's a pic of both (OEM on the right):
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-7438-1279480875.jpg)

Paul

[orthobiz]

With wire, conectors and a fender mount ford solinoid under $20

The center wire is where I connect the factory wire.

Thanks for the pics. I keep thinking "solenoid=doorbell" so I thought the solenoid was integral with the starter motor, the little cylindrical area next to the big cylinder on the solenoid. Like, you can't take the solenoid off the housing.

Is the solenoid the box that your wires are attached to?

And which Ford part number is that? Or are they all nearly the same?

Paul

[Gint]

You don't have the hot start problem Paul.

Mike is right, You have the "non-OEM" ignition switch problem. I do too.

[Tom]

I haven't had to do this yet, hence the question. Is the connector that fits to the switch a one piece connector? You may have a questionable contact in the connector itself. Wiggling gives you contact sometimes. Maybe check that the next time you have it off.
Tom

[Mark Henry]

The Ford solenoid isn't attached to the starter, it's just a switch that puts 12v direct from the battery to the VW solenoid. The Bosch starter solenoid needs a full 9V to kick in where as the ford unit only needs about 3v.

Not everyone agrees with me on this, some use the wimpy bosch horn relay, some will try to convince you to hack in a new wire. My way I have never cut a single factory wire and it always works. If it doesn't work you have bigger problems.

Surprised no one has commented on my crappy connectors....that solenoid and wires I built in the 80's and has been in service ever since.

[Kirmizi]

6 connectors... 7 connectors... it was getting late (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
The two small male connectors are for the buzzer and light (6 and 7 o'clock in your photo) In my case, the OEM had a distinctly tighter fit in the column.
Yes, the harness connector to the switch is a one piece plug and I inspected mine thoroughly, thinking that may have been the problem. It wasn't. Do a search here and on the Bird Board, you'll see suggestions to "shim" the new switches in order to get them to work.
Talk to Jonathan at GPR, that's who finally hooked me up with the OEM (Kostal) switch that solved the problem.
Mike

[brandomc]

6 connectors... 7 connectors... it was getting late (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
The two small male connectors are for the buzzer and light (6 and 7 o'clock in your photo) In my case, the OEM had a distinctly tighter fit in the column.
Yes, the harness connector to the switch is a one piece plug and I inspected mine thoroughly, thinking that may have been the problem. It wasn't. Do a search here and on the Bird Board, you'll see suggestions to "shim" the new switches in order to get them to work.
Talk to Jonathan at GPR, that's who finally hooked me up with the OEM (Kostal) switch that solved the problem.
Mike

Thanks for the lead on GPR!! I just fried my ignition switch a couple of days ago and have been looking for a new one. I called GPR, and ill have the switch in 2 days. It is amazing how cheap that switch is. I figured it to be 30 or 40 bucks, nope. 4.25
Heres a pic of the inside of my fried swithch incase you have never seen what the switch guts look like. [

[markb]

You might want to figure out why that terminal fried before you plug in the new switch.

[orthobiz]

The Ford solenoid isn't attached to the starter, it's just a switch that puts 12v direct from the battery to the VW solenoid. The Bosch starter solenoid needs a full 9V to kick in where as the ford unit only needs about 3v.

Thanks for the clarification.

Paul

[orthobiz]

Talk to Jonathan at GPR, that's who finally hooked me up with the OEM (Kostal) switch that solved the problem.
Mike

Hmm. Wonder if the "K" on the part number stands for Kostal...

Paul

[orthobiz]

Well, here's the inside of the switch I'm discarding. Now that I took it apart and little springs and connectors jumped out, I'll definitely be discarding!

It looks awfully pristine in there...

Paul

[orthobiz]

Do a search here and on the Bird Board, you'll see suggestions to "shim" the new switches in order to get them to work.
Mike

Here's a link:

Pelican Shim Discussion

Info in the comments at the bottom.

Didn't see any specific shim advice in searching 914world.com

Paul

[orthobiz]

I haven't had to do this yet, hence the question. Is the connector that fits to the switch a one piece connector? You may have a questionable contact in the connector itself. Wiggling gives you contact sometimes. Maybe check that the next time you have it off.
Tom

The connector is one piece and fits snugly. The wiggling I did was the key itself.

Paul

[Bartlett 914]

A lot of people trash talk the hot start relay. I think there are better looking ones than the ford one but in any case I think they are a good idea. It is nice to know the switch is fairly cheap. I suspect one day they won't be and one day maybe NLA. The hot start relay removes all the load off the ignition switch. Maybe the hot start relay will die but these will always be available in some shape or form. Look how big the wires are going to the switch. This circuit must go from the battery to the steering column and back to the starter. This is a lot of wire and a lot of connections.