Subaru Engine w/Boxster transaxle, Perfect fix for 914??? Options

[precisionchassis]

I just pulled the stock M96 engine out of the donor Boxster and put it on the scales. The fully dressed engine without flywheel/clutch/pressure plate weighed in at just over 450lbs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) STUPID PORSCHE!!!

From the research I've done, the twin cam, turbo 2.5 Subie motor should weight around 320lbs which includes the exhaust manifolds, turbo, intercooler core, PS pump, flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch disc. I haven't weighed the exact engine that will be going into the car because there are still a lot of pieces that need to be fabbed yet, but I predict a 100lb savings with the Subaru motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[charliew]

I think because of the weight of the 914 the highest axle ratio offered will be the best for the 914 application. Also if the first gear in the six speed is as low as the sti 6 spd it will be pretty much usless except for towing in the 914.

[precisionchassis]

The gear ratios between the STI and Boxster 6 speeds are very similar, but the Boxster final drive is 3.44:1 and the STi's is 3:90. I think it will be just fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[charliew]

I agree, it sounds like the boxter gearing is better for the 914 than the sti tranny for a 300hp or better motor, I'm not sure how heavy the boxter body you are using is though for the first application. Will the boxter clutch and ppl handle 350-400 ft lbs?

[atsealevel914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[DBCooper]

Is part of the plan to put Subaru engines in all those early Boxsters that had their motors go crispy? If so you got a PLAN dude! And I'm in line for one myself.

[Jake Raby]

about how much does a boxter trans cost? 5spd or 6spd?

A good 5 speed is about $1500, and a 6 speed is about $2500. I've seen them for less on Ebay, but those are good "retail" prices from reputable salvage yards.

I have a 49K mile 6 Speed Boxster S tranny for sale.. 2250.00 takes it. Came from a car that was parted out due to IMS failure.

[precisionchassis]

Is part of the plan to put Subaru engines in all those early Boxsters that had their motors go crispy? If so you got a PLAN dude! And I'm in line for one myself.

This is EXACTLY the plan! I think VERY soon there will be a TON of these early Boxsters in the $3000-$4000 range with bad engines. I want to be ready when it happens...

Test fit the engine today to see how it fits. It's almost like it was meant to be. It almost looks like the turbo might be able to fit in the stock location on the engine, although that's not what I will be doing on this car. There is almost 6 inches between the crank pulley and the engine bulkhead which is WAY more than the stock M96 engine.

Next is motor mount fabrication.

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A stock Boxster S weighs in at about 2940lbs. The test car will weigh about 2300lbs with a full cage and track prepped. The classes I'm planning on running it in at first is NASA's TTS and ST1 so I will be limited to a power-to-weight ration of no less than 8.7:1.... so about 280ish to the wheels.

[DBCooper]

Is part of the plan to put Subaru engines in all those early Boxsters that had their motors go crispy? If so you got a PLAN dude! And I'm in line for one myself.

This is EXACTLY the plan! I think VERY soon there will be a TON of these early Boxsters in the $3000-$4000 range with bad engines. I want to be ready when it happens...

Actually you can find them already, so I believe you've got this one by the tail.

There's irony here. Poor Jake. Lately I've noticed that in forums where he used to spend a lot of time talking up T4 conversions, Shoptalkforums, Spyderclub, etc. the Subaru conversions have taken over. Not so many T4's any more, they're just too expensive. So Jake shifted to Boxster motors, which are a problem. Now you come along developing a way to put Subaru motors in Boxsters, too, again because the Porsche motors are so much more expensive. Subaru's are going in to everything, and seem to be following Jake around. No wonder he's so annoyed.

[charliew]

A stock 2.5 04 sti is about 240-260hp at the 4 wheels so a 2wd version probably is about 280. The boxter looks like a better fit for the suby waterpumper and all the suspension is much newer and later technology. I have a boxter cable shifter though and the mr2 shifter seems like a much cleaner mechanism to me. Course the stock shifter already works and plastic doesn't rust.

Actually Jake would probably make a great suby motor builder. Everyone knows it takes close attention to detail to build a good motor and the suby does have some challenges if it is entended to be a performance motor at 7k. The stock turbo motors pretty much run out of steam at 6500.

[precisionchassis]

Is part of the plan to put Subaru engines in all those early Boxsters that had their motors go crispy? If so you got a PLAN dude! And I'm in line for one myself.

This is EXACTLY the plan! I think VERY soon there will be a TON of these early Boxsters in the $3000-$4000 range with bad engines. I want to be ready when it happens...

Actually you can find them already, so I believe you've got this one by the tail.

There's irony here. Poor Jake. Lately I've noticed that in forums where he used to spend a lot of time talking up T4 conversions, Shoptalkforums, Spyderclub, etc. the Subaru conversions have taken over. Not so many T4's any more, they're just too expensive. So Jake shifted to Boxster motors, which are a problem. Now you come along developing a way to put Subaru motors in Boxsters, too, again because the Porsche motors are so much more expensive. Subaru's are going in to everything, and seem to be following Jake around. No wonder he's so annoyed.

The donor car I'm using was bought for $3500 (for a 2000 "S")because it had a bad engine that was mixing coolant and oil. I've seen 2.5 cars go as cheap as $2500 with bad engines

[DBCooper]

Actually Jake would probably make a great suby motor builder. Everyone knows it takes close attention to detail to build a good motor and the suby does have some challenges if it is entended to be a performance motor at 7k. The stock turbo motors pretty much run out of steam at 6500.

He's said he'd rather be shot in the head.

[Jake Raby]

Is part of the plan to put Subaru engines in all those early Boxsters that had their motors go crispy? If so you got a PLAN dude! And I'm in line for one myself.

This is EXACTLY the plan! I think VERY soon there will be a TON of these early Boxsters in the $3000-$4000 range with bad engines. I want to be ready when it happens...

Actually you can find them already, so I believe you've got this one by the tail.

There's irony here. Poor Jake. Lately I've noticed that in forums where he used to spend a lot of time talking up T4 conversions, Shoptalkforums, Spyderclub, etc. the Subaru conversions have taken over. Not so many T4's any more, they're just too expensive. So Jake shifted to Boxster motors, which are a problem. Now you come along developing a way to put Subaru motors in Boxsters, too, again because the Porsche motors are so much more expensive. Subaru's are going in to everything, and seem to be following Jake around. No wonder he's so annoyed.

It doesn't bother me a bit. The Boxster is just another car and the Suby conversion just makes sense.. Our aircooled backlogs are just as strong as they were in 2000, I might lose two sales a year to the Suby conversion for a 914, and that's fine because those people aren't looking for what we create anyway.

In the M96 world our work is to support shops, sell information and create engine solutions. We are not building high numbers of the engines and don't want to.

The Suby might be growing but we have grown 400% here in 7 years and it shows zero signs of slowing down.. During this horrible economy I have added employees and added TWO more buildings, both of which are paid for. If even 1/2 of all Boxsters were converted to suby power there would be more M96 busines than we could ever want.

BTW- We haven't shifted any focus, we have just expanded. The same people are working in the airccoled division that have been there for years. I added space, added capability and much more defined spaces to carry out work with the Boxster and 996 engines.

FWIW I did a suby conversion into a sandrail in 1994, it took about 6 months to finish and I took it to Glamis in April of 1995 for the first time. Been there and dome that with a 2.5 even before ole DB Cooper.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Aug 12 2010, 09:19 PM

[DBCooper]

Don't know about that, Jake, I started with a VW Manx at Pismo in 1968. And if I'm not mistaken that was before you were born. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

So you're all annoyed for some other reason?

[RJMII]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stfu.gif) about jake already. You're reading annoyance where others might not. To me it looks like he is happy with where his busoness is going; and wishes the original poster similar success. If anything I would guess he is annoyed that you are hijacking a thread to try and provoke him.


Let's have some more pics on topic; this is one bad ass project and I want to see more!

[Jake Raby]

Nothing is currently annoying me, not even DB.. That's because I expect this behavior from him and was absolutely awaiting the post he made since I saw the first posting of this thread. It's just what he does and that's fine by me.

I am perfectly happy! I can work on the property where I grew up, shoot my rifle or shotgun out my office window or go fishing at my pond that's 200 yards from my shop. I can work on whatever I want to whenever I want to do it all while working with a great group of employees.

BTW My reference to doing it before DB wasn't talking about playing on the sand, but rather utilizing the Subaru engine to take the place of the VW engine. Nothing wrong with the Suby at all, some people might be surprised with what I have been working with as an addition over the past few years too:-)

Those who come our way even for an enquiry are looking to us for a reason and that's not primarily the cost of admission.

I do wish this project luck and might even do a few of the swaps myself, Blake and I had this idea two years ago but my goal was to support the M96 engine because I like Porsches and I like working with engines that were originally plagued with issues.

There will always be a big enough following to purchase what we create at the low volumes that we want to service.

Now, Lets stay on topic and don't hijack this thread.
To the original poster: email me, I'd like to help you:-)

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Aug 14 2010, 03:14 AM

[DBCooper]

Wow, could I be mistaken? Jake, I'm used to hearing you call my car a piece of junkyard shit and worse (in your forums for example, a pretty vigorous condemnation of Subaru conversions: 914 Watercooled Bastardization). You seemed pretty annoyed then, but if that's all past and my car is acceptable now then apologies are in order. But I admit it's gone on for so long already that I'm skeptical.

This isn't a hijack, not at all. Jake's acknowledgment that this could be another reasonable solution for the poor Boxster owners left stranded by Porsche is a major endorsement. Write that down and quote it. I know this is one of the smartest and most creative solutions I've seen, and I'm rooting for it to turn out well because I want one for myself. Oh, I said that already.


Edit: Good idea Jim! There's now a Sandbox thread for Raby Related comments. Please don't pollute this thread, precisionchassis has too cool a thing going on. I keep going through those photos, which are incredible, and can't wait for more. Tempted to get a Boxster and just follow along.

.

[jimkelly]

the sandbox exists for a reason.

that said - i am digging the idea of a boxster with a suby engine : ))

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

more pics and details pls.

jim

[76-914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) sans the bickering. this is good stuff; let's keep moving forward!

[JRust]

Love to see the work you are doing with the adapter plate. I am sure it will be getting plenty of use once finished. Both for the Boxter & our 914's. Do you have any interest in doing a plate for the 1.9 TDI motor?