Mallory ignition questions, Partial success! Options

[jeffdon]

You know, I am running a carbed 2056 with 494 webcam, Jets are 65 idles, 125 mains, 200 air, F11 e-tubes. I went to a malllory with the grey springs, hoping for a big improvement over the 009. While the car does pull stronger, its still sluggish in the low end, and when i mash on it. WTF? Should I go up on my idles and mains? Thinking maybe i need to get a wide band O2 gauge to diagnose it, but having just popped 300 for the Mallory, I am not quite ready to shell out another bunch of cash.

my guess is that you are over rich.
my engine is VERY similar to yours. My cam is like a 494 with a little added exhaust duration. My when I went from 60 idles to 65 idles I started getting a LOT of plug fouling and low speed misses unless I kept the engine turning above 3K (ie, get off the idle circuit.)

Zach

So do you think i should go down on idles and mains, or both?

[VaccaRabite]

go down to 60 idles and try that. I tried 130 mains, and wet back to 125s. Also, are you using a stock spark heat range? Try going one range hotter then stock if you are.

Oh, and start yer own damn thread! I want my ignition fixed! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Zach

[VaccaRabite]

Is the blue coil the preferred coil for the mallory? Or should I need to buy the mallory coil? Would moving to the mallory coil give me a larger spark?
Zach

Just briging this back to the for front. If I ca get a bigger spark, that might be very helpful.

Zach

[nathansnathan]

Here's some good reading on the blue coil
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BlueCoil.html

And also here, I think he gets into the advantages of a jacobs or mallory coil.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=124069

[ChrisFoley]

Is the blue coil the preferred coil for the mallory? Or should I need to buy the mallory coil? Would moving to the mallory coil give me a larger spark?

I am thinking I am going to pull the dizzy ad just make sure it was set right, since I was not the person who set it up i the first place.

Zach

We like to use blue coils. There's nothing special about most Mallory coils.
There's no reason to pull the distributor to adjust the advance plate. As long as you can get the two nuts loose that hold the optical unit in position, you can do it all in place.
Measure the coil resistance and remove the ballast if you don't need it.

I doubt there's anything wrong with the wires, but a bad coil could cause the symptoms you describe.

[ChrisFoley]

I went to a malllory with the grey springs, hoping for a big improvement over the 009. While the car does pull stronger, its still sluggish in the low end, and when i mash on it. WTF?

You need to verify that the Mallory is set up properly, as I told Zach above.
Just putting in two grey springs isn't enough by any measure.
The other adjustments (and possible corrections) are even more important.
In fact, we don't even use Mallory's springs anymore when we set up a distributor.

[VaccaRabite]

I went to a malllory with the grey springs, hoping for a big improvement over the 009. While the car does pull stronger, its still sluggish in the low end, and when i mash on it. WTF?

You need to verify that the Mallory is set up properly, as I told Zach above.
Just putting in two grey springs isn't enough by any measure.
The other adjustments (and possible corrections) are even more important.
In fact, we don't even use Mallory's springs anymore when we set up a distributor.

What springs do you like to use? Is this something we can buy from you?

Zach

[jeffdon]

go down to 60 idles and try that. I tried 130 mains, and wet back to 125s. Also, are you using a stock spark heat range? Try going one range hotter then stock if you are.

Oh, and start yer own damn thread! I want my ignition fixed! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Zach

I have a couple of jets smaller i can try. Not real sure on the heat range. Whatever the bird sells is what I am running. I dont think I am fouling, the plugs allways look to be ashy grey/yellow when i pull them. Oh, and on my old style webers, i have the accel pump fulcrum on the one that gives the bigger pump stroke.

[ChrisFoley]

What springs do you like to use? Is this something we can buy from you?

We found a supplier with a spring that has the same tension properties as the Mallory grey springs, but the ends aren't quite the same. Therefore we have to customize the ends in order to use them. If we had to buy a spring kit every time we sell a distributor, the price would be even higher.
I'm not planning to offer them for resale any time soon.

[VaccaRabite]

okay, so the springs you are using are a direct replacement for the mallory gray ones.

I'll start checkig my coil to see whats what.

I thought one of the benefits of the mallory ignition was a hotter spark then stock. Is this not the case?

Zach

[ChrisFoley]

I thought one of the benefits of the mallory ignition was a hotter spark then stock. Is this not the case?

Zach

It might be hotter, since the dwell is set electronically, unlike with points.
We've noticed that if the engine is allowed to idle for a long time, the Mallory dizzy has a tendency to overheat a coil. Mallory coils seem especially sensitive to this phenomenon.

[ejm]

Here's some good reading on the blue coil
*snip*
And also here, I think he gets into the advantages of a jacobs or mallory coil.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=124069

From the above post:

It was made in Germany. Probably in the 1970's or early 1980's

This guy does comparative testing using a 30 year old coil? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/jerkit.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

Hey, someone check me here.
Using a meter for testing ohm resistance, I had it set to 200.
Other options were 2K, 20K, 200K, and 2M.

If I had the right choice for measuring ohm resistance, I may have found part of my issue.

My coil is showing 3.4ohms resistance across the positive and negative contacts.

The PO of this engine had the coil wired through the resistor block, and assuming that I needed to do the same, I did. This weekend I will rewire my ignition and see what happens.

However, the resistor was only giving 1.1 ohms resistance also, so I may be using my tester improperly or the PO was using the wrong resistor in the first place.

Also, that thread on STF seems to make a pretty good case for the Jacobs coils. Is there a reason why the blue coils are preferred here? It would seem that a higher power coil would be what you want for a hot rodded motor (even it it is mildly hot rodded compared to some folks here) so long as you don't overpower your plugs, wires and cap.

Asking lots of questions, yeah... But learning a lot.

Zach

[orange914]

Hey, someone check me here.
Using a meter for testing ohm resistance, I had it set to 200.
Other options were 2K, 20K, 200K, and 2M.

If I had the right choice for measuring ohm resistance, I may have found part of my issue.

My coil is showing 3.4ohms resistance across the positive and negative contacts.

The PO of this engine had the coil wired through the resistor block, and assuming that I needed to do the same, I did. This weekend I will rewire my ignition and see what happens.

However, the resistor was only giving 1.1 ohms resistance also, so I may be using my tester improperly or the PO was using the wrong resistor in the first place.

Also, that thread on STF seems to make a pretty good case for the Jacobs coils. Is there a reason why the blue coils are preferred here? It would seem that a higher power coil would be what you want for a hot rodded motor (even it it is mildly hot rodded compared to some folks here) so long as you don't overpower your plugs, wires and cap.

Asking lots of questions, yeah... But learning a lot.

Zach

200 scale... check... 3.4 ohms at coil... check... +1.1 ohm resister... =4.5 ohms...NO check
too much resistance. again i'm not sure mallory's ohm requirements, i'm going off pertronix' and they want 2.5 to 3.0 resistance. i could see how there is a drivability if it has that much extra resistance.

[Gint]

Dude... ditch the resistor. You don't need it. You measured right. Your coil is already ballasted.

[VaccaRabite]

I agree about ditching the resister. That is going to happen this weekend.

But what about addig a more powerful coil? The Jacobs coils seem to be very sturdy and produce much more power the the blue coil. The Jacobs Ultra has specific mention for the Mallory Unilite in its instruction maual, and is rated at 55K volts over the Bosch Blue 18K volts.

Zach

[jaxdream]

Check to see if your plug wires will be ok with that kind of voltage increase , also you can open up the plug gap some if you install a higher voltage coil , maybe to .040-.045 to use the increased spark. check your rotor and cap for spark burn on them . Good luck , it seems that you're on the road to recovery!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

Jack / Jaxdream

[7275914911]

Just off the wall ? and something that I came across in installling my 6AL a few weeks ago. They talked about NEVER running consecutive firing cylinders wires right next to each other? Scavaging spark from the cylinder that is firing.

I had mine right next to each other when I first installed but have in the last week seperated them. Have not really drove the car enough either way to know if there was an improvement. It had become so much smoother with the addition of the box I was surprised. Had bought the 6AL mostly for over rev protection(think shift light) on my 2056 in AX situations.

Maybe Chris has some input on this ??

Good Luck, Zach

[Gint]

But what about addig a more powerful coil?

You certainly can, and if you're trying to chase an ignition issue it may in fact "go away" with a higher voltage coil. I've never felt the need on my carbd 2056. The blue coil works fine for me.

[VaccaRabite]

Okay, partial success!!!

We got out of a training class way early today, so I cam home, rewired my ignition, and collected some more data.

First off, OMFG! That rewire changed the cars starting habits like you would not believe! The "pump the gas twice, crank for 20 seconds until it fires while playing with the throttle" was gone. I started my usual routine and the engine caught so fast I turned off the car in surprise! If the engine stalled I could restart it by just reaching in the window and turning the key. I could almost never do that before. I suspect this will be a major change for the best.

But, it still idled crapily and would sputter and die unless I gave it more gas. You can hear the misfires. So I got out my timing light to check spark on the different leads. I held the timing light on each lead for ~ a minute and just watched the flashes while the engine idled.

My idle for tonight's experiment was set ~1000 rpm.

Plug wire 1 was a metronome. It never skipped a beat that I saw.

Plug 2, 3, and 4 all had seemingly random misfire events. When the engine would sputter you could see that it was not getting spark on that cycle. Most of the time they would fire, but sometimes they simply would not.

However, when I added even just a little more gas, the misfires seemed to go away. Its like the timing got noticeably better around 1400-1600 RPM.

The plugs are new - under 1 hour run time on them. The MSD spiral wound wires are ~1.5 years old - but the fact that the spark gets better as the engine starts to advance leas me to believe that the issue may be with the Mallory's initial timing set before it starts its mechanical advance. I did not check where it was timing in at idle. If I can get time again tonight I will run out and check that.

Any ideas?

Zach