Shall I say...SIX?, costs, plus' and minus' of conversion Options

[tat2dphreak]

1500 is a steal... check the compression and see what happens, post lotsa pics of the conversion for us to live vicariously through you!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Rusty]

engine# 911 670

he says it's a 225hp 3.0...Brad? others?

what displacment case is this?

Uhhh... sorry to burst your bubble.

That serial number is for a 1967 911 2.0 (1991 disp) motor. In stock form the 901/06 produced 130 horsepower @ 6600 rpm. It had 9.0:1 compression and Weber 40 IDA carbs. Those could very well be the original carbs.

I can't possibly imagine a 3.0 built on that case. If it was built to 911R specs of the same year, it *might* hit 220 hp. But the 67 911R motor turned at 8000rpm, had 10.3:1 compression and 46 IDA carbs.

Even so, a clean, nice running small /6 with Webers is STILL worth 1500, easily.

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[Trekkor]

Thanks for all the feedback thus far. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

I'm going to further inspect the motor now.

Too bad it's the small six.
I don't know how they came up with there size and HP figures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I'll take more pics of the process.

Will the rocker arms show us something if there has been mods?

Supposedly comes with an extra 4 puck clutch.

It might be fun to modify the 6 into 1 Supertrapp header for the mid engine.

What can be done to squeeze more power outa the small six w/Webers?

I'll report later.

[Eric_Shea]

Well... I haven't dug into my notes but it should be a sand cast aluminum block. If so then you can build on it. They should be strong enough to handle 2.2S goodies. The thought would be to make it a 2.2S motor with the proper P&C's, cams and heads. Good luck finding early 911S P&C's, Cams and Heads though.

It would be a fun 170-180hp if you could put it together. Short-strokers are one of my favorites.

Here's another option. 90mm Carrera RS P&C's, S-cams and some 2.2 heads cut to S-specs. They made a lot of them (90mm's) so they're cheap (in 911 terms). You would have a problem with low compression. Some recommend cutting the heads but that leaves a lot of slack in the chains. There are some machine shops out there that re-bush the rod ends (my choice) to bring the compression back up. This gives you a 2.5 liter short-stroking 220-250hp powerhouse! Yeee-fuching-haaa. That's basically what's going in my GT (built on a 2.2 platform, your sandcast case should be stronger)

[brant]

dangerous territory here ... asking what can be done to squeeze more HP out of a small six....

Its a slippery slope your on my friend...

hopefully that motor is already a larger displacement.

A 2.0 can be built to 220hp.. a bit more with a twin plug.. but your talking about wheel barrels full of cash here.. Its cheaper to go to bigger displacement than add cubic cash into a small bore...
or you can buy used 911S pistons/cylinders, crank, heads, cams and you can get to S specs for around 150hp....

brant

[Trekkor]

Bought the motor...I think congratulations are in order! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

First, we checked the cylinders for leakdown with a air testing device. 4 were great, 1 good, 1 a little blow-by. This was done dry and cold so we are pretty sure after valve adjust, running the motor and running oil through it, letting it loosen up a bit, it should be O.K.

The plan: get it running next week on the bench.
I'd like to put the six in my car basically as is. Just get it running well.

If I can get 130-140hp that should keep me happy.

Labor will be a fair work trade for a bathroom remodel. I can do a lot of the mechanical work myself.

I'm going to clean the six tomorrow ala McMark style to get a quick fix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If all goes well, I'd like to see the car in full dressed six by winter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Mueller]

congrats (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

while a mid sized to big block /6 motor is a blast, the smaller /6 motors are still fun....the sound alone is almost worth the conversion (my wife went for spin with me when I first got my first 914/4 and was looking for the large and loud lawn mower always following us (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

[Rusty]

Congrats! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

If the motor is basically sound, you got a good deal. I have an small /6 (2.0), and am very happy with it. If you get 130-140 hp out of that motor, you got an EXCELLENT deal.

Open up the carbs and clean out the float bowls. Cheap insurance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

way to go!

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[seanery]

Good job Trekkor.
The other stuff adds up $, but I believe you got a good deal.

[theol00]

Congratulations!
I am in the process of doing the same thing with a 2.2 ltr - so far the cost for parts (w/o motor) including motor mount, oil tank, clutch, accellerator cable, engine tin (fibre glass), headers w/o heat, oil cooler adapter, 5 lug conversion including SC brakes and spring upgrades are under $4K - careful shopping will help you to control your cost - for example - cost differences between oiltanks is from $450 - as high as $700 - - good luck!

[J P Stein]

There is a number serise stamped om the top of the case.....right side, facing the fan, just above & behind the chain housing.....should be 901/XX.....the type number.

That will tell you what the stock motor was...minus any "improvements".

Also, if the cylinders are aluminum.....that's gud.

[Trekkor]

This project is exciting...but.

Is it worth going to all the trouble and expense for only a 2.0?

Those of you with experience convince me otherwise ( I'll be an easy sell ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

What are the performance plus and minus'?
4 vs. 6 - 2.0 vs.2.0 ( 1971cc vs. 1991cc ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I want better acceleration.
I like to a/x, but class and placing isn't really that important to me. Just for fun.

What I really want is a well rounded, fast, excellant handing. Don't we all? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

BTW- I like carbs. F.I is cool, too.

J.P.- I had the part # you asked me about but I can't remember it. It not home with me now. Maybe 901/xx/8372? No help I know. Next week.

[Duffster]

Congrats on a smooth deal Trekkor!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Cases for sixes are that much, still attached to all the stuff that has gone bad. I had a 2.2 in my car (before I let it slip to Mssrs Kravig and Sager that I was dreaming of a 2.7), The 2.2 180 hp engine was an absolute blast... the 2nd most fun it is possible to have in a sitting position! I think it may be in Zois' 356C now.

Good advice about not adding up the receipts in the presence of spouses and spousal equivilents. Mine got real pale when the magic number was revealed. She let me know in that wordless way that they have that I owe her something BIG down the road.

Someone on this board said that 130 hp in one of these cars will make you scream and you'll mess your pants at 250. Absolutemente!!!

[McMark]

IMHO, the ONLY real reason to do a six conversion is resale value. It's harder to sell a big 4 than a six.

Oh course, my opinion of that is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)

If anyone is building a car to make money they chose the wrong car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) We build them to have fun.

In short, sell the six and put that money towards a big 4.

[Trekkor]

Mark, thanks for the advice. I'm kinda torn here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

No one has said "Hey, bro, I've got a small six and it rocks. It is so much better than that fuel injected 4 I had. I really love the way it winds up and gets me going"

Is that because the small six is garbage? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Who has this motor, and is diggin' it big?

I like the idea Anthony had of putting it in there until a... huh, huh... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)
really cheap, 3.2 comes my way.

I'm going to run it ASAP on the bench and think a little more. Also listen to the board. Also thought you all might like to know, Brad says "NO. Stay 4 "

BTW, Mark, did you see those carbs...whooo hooo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) ( sorry )

Maybe I save it for the baja. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[SirAndy]

IMHO, the ONLY real reason to do a six conversion is resale value.

no, the ONLY reason to do a /6 conversion is to have FUN with the car!

that's also why you do BIG /4s and V8's and V6 conversions ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) Andy

[SirAndy]

Is that because the small six is garbage? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

if it's a more or less stock 2.0L /6 engine, it's NOT any better than the /4 2.0L ...

i think, if you go through all the trouble and $$$ to do a /6 conversion, go and get a low-milage 3.2 or 3.6 and be done with it.
LOTS of HP in stock trim (read: reliable HP).

if you go with a 2.0L /6 you will still throw $10k into the conversion easy and end up with:

A FRIGGIN TWO-LITER ...

which is exactly what you have right now, less 2 cylinders and less $10k out the window ...

just my 0.02 euros,
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Andy

[seanery]

Personally, I think it's worth it. I drove an extremely worn original factory 6, it smoked, looked like hell and was generally trashed, but oh, what fun it was to drive. Any 6 is going to be fun to drive. AND sixes have That Sound oh, that wonderful sound. Once you do the hard stuff it's done. So, do it, drive it, enjoy it. If it's not enough power in a couple years you can sell the motor and find a big one. At that point it's plug and play.

do it do it do it

[IronHillRestorations]

I don't know anyone who's properly done a six conversion and said "gee, I should've just gone with a big four".

PK (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[theol00]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

it seems the majority of 914 owners is striving to have a six - $1500 is a very good entry level price - the 2.0 ltr is a very solid and strong motor that also sounds great.
You can always sell that motor for what it cost you.
You don't need additional cooling and plumming -other than the oiltank - which makes the installation/conversion less costly and time consuming.
Looks like the whole deal shouldn't go for more than $6000 incl your motor and 5 lug conversion.
Once you have done the basic installation - you can always go for a bigger motor later.
My advice - if you can afford it - go for it and enjoy the ride!