Palindrome 914 Build Thread, now on the chassis jig Options

[nathansnathan]

The way restoration design does the hell hole repair isn't the same as factory from what I can figure - they omit the outer piece so just the corrugated piece is used, which I didn't want to do.

I'm pretty sure RD has both pieces. There was a thread about that a while ago.

They are pretty active here, PM peteyd if you have questions.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Thanks, I've pm'd him. I can't remember if I'd called them about this, or maybe talking to Dr 914 at AA, or what but I had somehow concluded otherwise. Hopefully I was wrong as maybe they would also have, though doubtful, the piece forward of the firewall, the inner. It's got even deeper corrugations at the bottom to fit over the outer piece's corrugations. I've got nothing that is salvageable that is like that and will have to make it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[nathansnathan]

There is no cure and no 12 step program to help you. Your hooked!!!!

Thanks for this thread and for saveing 2 914,s. Did you sent the vins to

Andy ? Great job ! Dave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

I'm actually subscribed subscribed to the whole Garage forum here, meaning I see every thread starting post at minimum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

I look forward to commencing work on my car for 4-12 hours per day once I heal, maybe 2 weeks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

I've finally got the chance (can't work on my car) to enter the 2nd car to the registry. I explained there how, despite her being cut up, I hope to one day fabricate an all steel narrow bodied 914 using its shell, with all of the outer panels being detachable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[sixnotfour]

insert a new wick, and dress it..

I had staff infection in an incision where they had inserted a chest tube, nasty stuff.
The the gizmo I had for 2 weeks was a vacuum pump sealed to my body pulling a vacuum on the infected area sucking both fluid and promoting healing. I had to visit every other day to have the wick changed and reattach.. I had to do antibiotics through a central venous catheter.

Before this all got figured out ,I knew I was in trouble when Hard coughing to excite my lungs to regain breathing , I blew a big blob of goo out the wound , that was fine 12 hours earlier. Honey I think I need to go to Emergency Again, 10 days later was the above pump and stuff.


Take Care Man , I finally realized how fragile the human body can be.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[nathansnathan]

The way restoration design does the hell hole repair isn't the same as factory from what I can figure - they omit the outer piece so just the corrugated piece is used, which I didn't want to do.

I'm pretty sure RD has both pieces. There was a thread about that a while ago.

They are pretty active here, PM peteyd if you have questions.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Thanks, I've pm'd him. I can't remember if I'd called them about this, or maybe talking to Dr 914 at AA, or what but I had somehow concluded otherwise. Hopefully I was wrong as maybe they would also have, though doubtful, the piece forward of the firewall, the inner. It's got even deeper corrugations at the bottom to fit over the outer piece's corrugations. I've got nothing that is salvageable that is like that and will have to make it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

it took me 5 messages back and forth to clarify what I was talking about, but I'm finally sure about this now. Nobody makes the smooth piece that goes just behind the passenger suspension console, the passenger outside inner long, rear of the fire wall, nor do they make the passenger inside inner long forward of the firewall. - The way they do it, the inside inner long behind the firewall connects directly to the outside inner long that is in front of the firewall. Hope that's clear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif)
You can see it in this pic
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.darrylsgarage.com-11782-1323819474.1.jpg)

[SirAndy]

the inside inner long behind the firewall connects directly to the outside inner long that is in front of the firewall.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Now you got me all confuzzled ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Krieger]

Very impressive fab skills. Keep on keepen on!

[nathansnathan]

the inside inner long behind the firewall connects directly to the outside inner long that is in front of the firewall.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Now you got me all confuzzled ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The longs are supposed to be 2 layers of sheet metal from just forward of the seatbelt hole/ jack post all the way back to the top of the inner suspension console.

Here is quoted the message that I think made it clear. I've been told I'm wrong about this a few times so I just want to set it straight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(adding product pic/part numbers for clarity)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.restoration-design.com-11782-1323828439.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.restoration-design.com-11782-1323828440.2.jpg)

I am still unsure of what piece it is that you are referring to. Perhaps if you had a porsche part number or even take
a picture of your car and send me that picture. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing that lays over P351,
but I could be wrong.
Send me a photo to
[restoration design]

Hi, Peter,
Sending this in continuation of our conversion on 914world pm.
This is my photo, the entirety of the inner passenger long taken out. It is somewhat obscured by the heater tube,
but you can see the P351, the inside inner long, extends forward of the firewall. The part that has surface rust and
goes forward to the heater bracket is a separate piece than P352 - it goes inside it.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.914club.com-11782-1294592745.4.jpg)

Similarly, P352 does not get butt welded to P351. it should be attached, rear of the firewall, to a smooth piece. You
can see in this image that the smooth piece has been partially cut away. It goes rearward to the front of the rear
trunk, and is the piece that the inner suspension console is attached to. The part that is cut away from this piece
also has an indent for the engine mount, to lay over the indent that is part of P351.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.eggscollective.org-11782-1291433482.2.jpg)

You can see the driver version of P352 attached to a smooth section - From the factory, P352 is part of the piece I
am talking about - I am looking for the part of it that is rear of the firewall.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-8858-1280502713.jpg)

Hopefully this will make it clear, the 2 pieces that I'm talking about.
Nathan Scruggs

Nathan,

I finally see what you are talking about. I didn’t even realize that there was a piece that covers the P352. Unfortunately I do not have that piece. I have that NOS piece but will not be making that die for the foreseeable future. Looks like you will have to fab something up yourself or hack something out of a parts car. I have no used 914s here with that piece in good condition.

[SirAndy]

The longs are supposed to be 2 layers of sheet metal from just forward of the seatbelt hole/ jack post all the way back to the top of the inner suspension console.

Ok, now i get it. That inner part (with the ribs) was added on later cars, early cars don't have that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[nathansnathan]

The longs are supposed to be 2 layers of sheet metal from just forward of the seatbelt hole/ jack post all the way back to the top of the inner suspension console.

Ok, now i get it. That inner part (with the ribs) was added on later cars, early cars don't have that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Actually, no. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I've been thinking about his for awhile, and got distracted some matters with my bus over new years. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Sorry to get back so late (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Jeff Hail talks about his in his "Bringing out the dead" thread
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...76791&st=61

Where the inner long come's together with the rear frame rail it was double walled by the factory highlited in red.

If I were to just weld the inner long to the rear frame rail without the double wall it would be a very flexible joint and eventually fail. This would be compounded by suspension movement and engine weight and torque. This area is where the rear center section of the tub (torque box) ties into the rear structure of the vehicle. This area needs to be as strong or stronger than the factory designed it to be.
Everytime the suspension compresses this area is subjected to load. Everytime the vehicle is launched it is subject to load.

All of the cars had the same construction in that area. My 71, 72, and the 75 or 76 in the link. Here is his shot of the inner layer of the inner long forward of the firewall. The lower seatbelt bolt threads are welded to that piece.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-7712-1193013431.jpg)

[nathansnathan]

I'd hoped that I'd be posting the attachment of the whole inner piece with my next (this) post, but, well don't get me talking about my bus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Instead, I've just gotten to prepping it for install, almost there.

I almost finished the inner layer. I've got to cut that front part where it's marked. I ended up using the shallower corrugations from the outer layer of the parts car in construction of the bottom of the inner forward piece there (accidentally attached to the post above) and the attachment, below.


Also, I got the recess for the engine mount handled.


Had to cut into the virgin long.


After a lot of comparing, etc to the parts car,


I fit up the inner and outer inner long after cutting a small hole in the outer ( no pic sorry), and ground away using a grinder to get it out to where the template said it should be.


The piece made out of part of my wrinkled door skin, funny how it's creased from the halfway point of 1 side, and then angles, lining up with the arch of the engine mount - hard to explain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




I'm currently out of of grinding/ cutting disks for my mini die grinder to smooth this all out. Yard store has a great price on an Acat pnuematic mini angle grinder. I've just ordered that to step up my grinding smoothing process, along with 2" roloc holders, sanding disks and surface conditioning wheels. It's hard to finish the welds with a straight mini die grinder and then a flap wheel on an electric 4 1/2"angle grinder as I've been doing.

... which is not so precise either to make the flange lips (? not sure about the terminology here) larger. The flanges are larger at the back, and I've been putting off enlarging the ones I've repurposed from the front of the parts car. The difference is small but significant. I had to go bigger to facilitate welding and will trim. I'm still at it actually.


It will require more hammering also; welding brought the top and bottom of the inner in, and the outer is springing out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) I've outlined the inner layer in an adriatic glow.


I am thinking that I will put the inner and outer layers of the long together and then put them up to the car, a bit different than how Jeff did it. I feel more comfortable being able to clamp the layers, and to back the welds. Attach the heater tube, the rear heater channel, and put it on. (!) It's a bit more complicated than that...weld thru primer...., actually, but... . The engine mount and inner suspension console will go on after.


A bit of a fit up. I need to make the bottom of the engine mount, as that is from the drivers side of the donor. A bit of a difference in the upper part on the side, the flange height, but besides that (and the bottom which is symmetrically inverse) they are the same. I need to get some thicker gauge metal to make that. I'd like to have my suspension jig and inner console fitted, engine support bar going to the fitted-up mount, as well as firewall front and rear all in position before welding the inner assembly in. I don't want the bottom of the car to sit too far out and may need to use a tie down strap to pull it together. We'll see soon.

[FourBlades]

Great work as usual. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Your car will be better than new when done.

At least the smooth part of the long is the easier one to make of the two, I think a lot of people end up bending something up for that area.

John

[nathansnathan]

I got my outer suspension console back on, finally. Page 3 I'd left with it here
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.914club.com-11782-1301459739.12.jpg)

When I took it off, it looked like this
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.914club.com-11782-1301459733.3.jpg)

Finally got it like this. I couldn't get out all the little black spots back there, but I'm hoping it will be neutralized/ encapsulated by the etching chemicals.


I'd welded up all the carnage from removing it




I did the ppg dx579 and dx520. Seems a lot like por's marine clean and metal ready, which I've used before, but maybe stronger even.






I got a bit rough with the clamp. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) It bothered me for a bit, but I hope it will be ok. It is a learning experience for me here.






The jig I'd made before removing it. I constructed this to locate the inner suspension console actually. I didn't plan to take the outer off.


I also measured many times, comparing to the other side. I saw in a recent post,
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...=2&t=172145
Rick Ollah, was saying that, (these being hand-built cars), the tolerance for suspension stuff on the bodies is 3mm. I think I got it to 1/16 inch which is 1.5875mm, using a tape measure off the outside of the tops of the bolt receivers (the part that has the clear plastic plugs) It's hard to measure from the bottom where the bolts actually are going. I measured to the nook of the jackpost and receiver plate. I went back to the fender support strap which seems consistent on both sides. I also measured up to the corner of the nook of part of the muffler heat shield. Also, the flange where the top and bottom of the console is 16.5 inches exactly from the bottom of the lip up at the base of the sail, inside. I kind of forget now, but I repositioned it a few times and went from side to side measuring A LOT before I was satisfied.

I got it mostly welded in


and this is when I got distracted by some blemishes I'd circled earlier on my jack post receiver plate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Not pleased with the results of a screw driver test there.


It took me several days to come to grips with this nasty turn of events. My work sent me to Austin for about a week for SXSW film music interactive festival which was awesome.

I almost managed to forget about this, but I'm back and after cleaning my shop yesterday, I've gone in again, deeper. Hopefully, I will post soon the resolution of all this. Not only is it not pretty behind the receiver plate, it's not-too-nice I see now between the 2 layers at the bottom, from the front of the plate to where it slants up a foot or so back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I've got the metal to fix it, thought I might have had to before, so maybe I can make short work of this. I won't post more pics of it until the sight of what I have done does not induce vomiting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)

[Socalandy]

Amazing work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[nathansnathan]

Wow, it's been 3 months since I've updated. I keep thinking this next post , I will have the long back together (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) . I'll get to some of the work I did on that in a post later. For now I'll catch up with the jack point repair.

I didn't get great pics of the first bit, where I'd cut the bottom off, and exposed all the pitting and rust.

The piece behind the jack plate was pitted pretty good as well, on the outside. I was torn on leaving it, but worried about what might still lie beneath, took it off.


I got it under control with spot blasting and an 80 grit 1 1/2 inch roloc disk on a pnuematic mini right angle grinder.


The restoration design piece was, not as ready-to-go-in as I would have liked. The original has a recess stamped in it; the rd piece, just a square hole. The replacement jack post that I ordered (wasn't sure if I'd need it) was like a gauge thinner than the original. I decided to weld the original post into the replacement hole which I made bigger.

The front, also, was about a half inch short.

[nathansnathan]

oops , I didn't mean to add so soon. got some error message? Anyway...

Had to wire wheel the whole thing to get the galvanization off, drilling the holes for where it'll need to be welded. Wasn't happy with how short the flange to weld it on ws, maybe .030" inch shorter than stock in such a critical area.

I etched everything and weld-primered the parts that would become inaccessible.
The car part and the piece inside, too

rocker nut welded in

put it together, not quite done

It all lines up though

At that point I moved on to a bit of my own rd oversight where I;d made the bottom of the inner long about a 1'2 inch too short kind of. I'll post pics soon of that and the fix... and the fitting, not attached quite yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[nathansnathan]

When I'd put the bottom of the long together, I had not taken the engine mount off the donor car and kind of put it, where it wanted to be.

All seems well



But try as I might with the bottom, it wasn't lining up right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)


measured the donor car then to find I was off
As it went Up the long it became almost 1/4 inch off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) so..



got it welded together, and smoothed even, there, I got copper flashing backing it.
no pic currently of the fit from below, I will have to update later.

moving on to the engine mount... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

[nathansnathan]

I'd been worried about the engine mount.
The good bottom bit on the left id from the driver's side of the donor car.The original driver side engine mount on the right, and below that the new piece I formed of 16 gauge cold rolled sheet in progress.


The bottom formed bit is the same side-to-side, but the top is symmetrically inverse


just got to ad the flange on the bottom of the one side, took it off the other


and fit up in the nook and jacked snug at the bottom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)


Working on putting the firewall back together this weekend,


I need to bolt the firewall, tube, and long together and see if I can get it in so I can assemble it (weld) and then put it in, easier than building it on the car as you can't reach inside that way. soon fairly soon...

[saigon71]

Very impressive work man...keep it rolling! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[obscurity]

This is some pretty amazing work. I have been struggling with what to do with my engine mount. This is inspirational!

John

I'd been worried about the engine mount.
The good bottom bit on the left id from the driver's side of the donor car.The original driver side engine mount on the right, and below that the new piece I formed of 16 gauge cold rolled sheet in progress.


The bottom formed bit is the same side-to-side, but the top is symmetrically inverse


just got to ad the flange on the bottom of the one side, took it off the other


and fit up in the nook and jacked snug at the bottom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)


Working on putting the firewall back together this weekend,


I need to bolt the firewall, tube, and long together and see if I can get it in so I can assemble it (weld) and then put it in, easier than building it on the car as you can't reach inside that way. soon fairly soon...

[nathansnathan]

Thanks, man. It's really good to hear the encouragement. I've been recapping all that is left to do and I'm thinking, I need to get better at this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Was checking out your thread. Very ambitious, what you have done, and looking good. ... makes me think I've got it easy. You're making me look bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)