For My Next Trick, Minimum Cost /6 Converion, An experiment to show low cost done well. Options

[Series9]

Does that $5k Raby engine include Carbs/FI or is it just a long-block?


Anyway, I'm shooting for 140hp to start. The $5k build budget will include digital FI and distributorless ignition.


A little down the road, I'm going to open up the engine and swap in some S pistons, Nikasil cylinders and S cams. It'll end up around 190hp.

[jimkelly]

good point - though the average 6 conversion using all STORE BOUGHT bits would probably cost $5k (tin/exhaust/oiltank/throttlelinkage/etc/etc) excluding engine and labor?

the 2056 - does not come with ignition or exhaust or engine core or a bunch of other bits. 125 HP without tangerine exhaust.

so i guess $5000 + type4 core + mallory dist + exhaust + carbs = $7000 +-

so i guess the question is - does one want to spend 50% more to do a six conversion - not on the cheap.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=42456

last question - can carbed 6 get thru emissions relatively easily? in my state all 914 must go thru emissions - thus i will stick with low cost V8 or possibly suby conversions. that said, who would not want a high reving six ; ))

[JmuRiz]

Cool to know that engine mout can handle you 3.6...makes me think it'd work on my 2.7 (hmmmm)
Also I'm interested in what you have planned for the EFI and distributor-less ignition. I didn't even think those were possible on a budget.

Wish there was a builder like you closer to me...

[mepstein]

good point - though the average 6 conversion using all STORE BOUGHT bits would probably cost $5k (tin/exhaust/oiltank/throttlelinkage/etc/etc) excluding engine and labor?

the 2056 - does not come with ignition or exhaust or engine core or a bunch of other bits. 125 HP without tangerine exhaust.

so i guess $5000 + type4 core + mallory dist + exhaust + carbs = $7000 +-

so i guess the question is - does one want to spend 50% more to do a six conversion - not on the cheap.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=42456

last question - can carbed 6 get thru emissions relatively easily? in my state all 914 must go thru emissions - thus i will stick with low cost V8 or possibly suby conversions. that said, who would not want a high reving six ; ))

I don't think the 5K engine is still 5K. I'm just guessing...I could be wrong.

I think all these projects need a flexible budget. At least that's my excuse for getting in over my head on mine.

[John]

The only way to make a 5k budget on a 6 conversion requires one to do all their own labor (for free) AND fabricate most of the bits themselves.

Patience will bring deals, but this patience may take years in order to gather all the required bits for rock bottom prices.

I didn't end up re-doing anything on my conversion, but I do need to pull the engine and re-seal the chain housings, and it could stand to have the heads rebuilt, but I did my 3.2 conversion 5+ years ago.

The only way I was able to keep my budget in the 5k range was that I sold off most all my -4 parts and I also fabricated conversion parts and sold them. I did engine sheet metal, shift rods, block off plates, engine mounts, etc.

[mepstein]

I'm doing mine for $5K. I bartered the rest from Eric Shea for an NOS ash tray.

[Series9]

It's been a while, but the 2.2 is finally here. $520 delivered:

[a914dude]

good point - though the average 6 conversion using all STORE BOUGHT bits would probably cost $5k (tin/exhaust/oiltank/throttlelinkage/etc/etc) excluding engine and labor?

the 2056 - does not come with ignition or exhaust or engine core or a bunch of other bits. 125 HP without tangerine exhaust.

so i guess $5000 + type4 core + mallory dist + exhaust + carbs = $7000 +-

so i guess the question is - does one want to spend 50% more to do a six conversion - not on the cheap.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=42456

last question - can carbed 6 get thru emissions relatively easily? in my state all 914 must go thru emissions - thus i will stick with low cost V8 or possibly suby conversions. that said, who would not want a high reving six ; ))

Jim, the original 914/6 had carbs. What else could they compare it to? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[bcheney]

It's been a while, but the 2.2 is finally here. $520 delivered:

I bought my original -6 engine for this same dollar amount 4 years ago. I had it rebuilt to 2.2 E-Spec. Still working to get it installed...so many things get in the way...I hope to complete the install by this Christmas! Glad to see you're making progress!!

[sixnotfour]

Wow -6 oil cooler and flywheel. does it have a bosch dizzy too ?

[John]

It's been a while, but the 2.2 is finally here. $520 delivered:

Is that already a 914-6 engine? Looks like the cooler is already set up for a 914 (well it is pointed in the right direction at least).

[Steve]

Sorry for the hijack, but I have not seen any longevity numbers for a big type four. I could not get more than 15k miles out of my 2.4 liter four (103x71). I had it overhauled twice before giving up and going to a six back in 1986. For the cost of rebuilding the four twice I could of had a six in the first place. My stock 3.2 motor has over 150k miles on it. It runs great and does not leak any oil.

[John]

Sorry for the hijack, but I have not seen any longevity numbers for a big type four. I could not get more than 15k miles out of my 2.4 liter four (103x71). I had it overhauled twice before giving up and going to a six back in 1986. For the cost of rebuilding the four twice I could of had a six in the first place. My stock 3.2 motor has over 150k miles on it. It runs great and does not leak any oil.

Amen.

[monkeyboy]

Sorry for the hijack, but I have not seen any longevity numbers for a big type four. I could not get more than 15k miles out of my 2.4 liter four (103x71). I had it overhauled twice before giving up and going to a six back in 1986. For the cost of rebuilding the four twice I could of had a six in the first place. My stock 3.2 motor has over 150k miles on it. It runs great and does not leak any oil.

Amen.

Not sure what the specs on your motor was, but Jake is claiming 100,000 miles. You aren't getting that for $5,000 though.

[JmuRiz]

A 6-cyl for $520, wow....with the 914 cooler mod already on it? Amazing, I'll post my $ numbers tomorrow when I can see my spreadsheet.

[Steve]

Sorry for the hijack, but I have not seen any longevity numbers for a big type four. I could not get more than 15k miles out of my 2.4 liter four (103x71). I had it overhauled twice before giving up and going to a six back in 1986. For the cost of rebuilding the four twice I could of had a six in the first place. My stock 3.2 motor has over 150k miles on it. It runs great and does not leak any oil.

Amen.

Not sure what the specs on your motor was, but Jake is claiming 100,000 miles. You aren't getting that for $5,000 though.

It was a stock 2.0 liter with 103mm cylinders and the stock 71mm 2.0 crankshaft. I was also running 44ida webers on it. I know there are not too many people recommending 103mm cylinders these days. The technology has improved allot since the early 80's. The first 2364? four sucked a valve and the second overhaul broke a ring. Both within 15k miles. Maybe my mechanic at the time didn't know what he was doing. He used to build type 4 sand rail motors. I paid $5200.00 for my 3.2 liter six, 11 years ago. Its actually my second six. The first six was a 2.7 with a top end overhaul. I installed it back in 1986. It had a top end overhaul when I installed it and it lasted about 100k miles before it started pulling head studs. It never left me stranded.
What size motor is Jake claiming 100k on?

[Steve]

Sorry for the hijack, but I have not seen any longevity numbers for a big type four. I could not get more than 15k miles out of my 2.4 liter four (103x71). I had it overhauled twice before giving up and going to a six back in 1986. For the cost of rebuilding the four twice I could of had a six in the first place. My stock 3.2 motor has over 150k miles on it. It runs great and does not leak any oil.

Amen.

Too funny. I thought I was a fan of the 3.2 motor, you have two of them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[0396]

joe
let me know if you do make a run of these
I'll take one!

brant

Please add me to this list too.
Thanks

[Series9]

Wow -6 oil cooler and flywheel. does it have a bosch dizzy too ?

It does have a Bosch distributor that will be for sale because I'm doing Megasquirt and distributorless ignition.

[Series9]

I started a leak-down test on the engine the other day. Yeah right. Wishful thinking.


#1. 50/100
#6. 0
#2. 0............


Returned the test tools to the box and got a flashlight to have a look in the intakes at the valves. MMMMMmmm rusty.

At minimum, the heads will need guides and facing, at least a few valves (maybe all of them), hone cylinders, rering, etc.



I'm VERY bad at doing the minimum to get it going. I've already looked at JE pistons and other $$$$$$ parts.

If there's good news, it's that this is a T engine. That means that is has a non-counterweighted crankshaft. That means there's no point in going crazy on the top end when the bottom end won't support the revs.

If I can get away with leaving the bottom end together, I will probably be able to hold myself back. If not, the budget is going to get scrapped as I turn it into a 2.4S.


Let me think about it.