 Serious: Is there too much engine ?, What's the best upgrades |
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| freestone |
 Jul 6 2004, 10:15 AM
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#1
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Newbie  Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 1-September 03 From: ny Member No.: 1,102  |
As I contemplate the upgrade possibility from a 2.7rs, is it possible to put too much engine in a 914-6?
I don't want to drag race, or even do DE's in it, but I do want the best back country road driving car and one gets used to HP. What type of engine would be the optimal if I put on 8" tires? Is it possible to overdo it and end up with a less usable car? Where is the sweet spot? Is that a lot different than a 2.7rs which I have gotten used to already - hence wanting more! I would have this professionally done. |
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| VegasRacer |
Jul 6 2004, 10:36 AM
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#2
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ELVIRA Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,709 Joined: 27-March 03 From: Between Scylla and Charybdis Member No.: 481 Region Association: None 
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My answer is the quote at the bottom of this post.
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| J P Stein |
Jul 6 2004, 10:45 AM
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#3
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
OK, I'm geting old........
I've tried out my 2.7L hot rod on twisty public roads. Using it anywhere it's potential on public roads is socialy irresponsible. While pushing it around a marked 45 mph corner you glance at the speedo and your going 80...and the tires are still solidly hooked. Everything is under control, but you're a deadly danger to everything around....cause you can't see far enough ahead. |
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| freestone |
Jul 6 2004, 10:49 AM
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#4
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 1-September 03 From: ny Member No.: 1,102 |
Ouch.
But there are plenty of corners you can see around. And if that criteria was applied to every car in the current horsepower war (500hp E55's, V10 M5's, 600hp Carrera GTs, etc .... The real point is when you are coming out and the road is clear, the torque is nice. |
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| Andyrew |
Jul 6 2004, 11:38 AM
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#5
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,377 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California 
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200-250 is a real screamer. You just have to learn to feather the throttle alot. ON the autox course, I know for a fact that me and my dad on the past what 3 autox's have not pushed the throttle down all the way in the 944 turbo track car or street car.
150 will keep you with most new sportyer cars today. 200 will keep you with most larger hp cars today, and 250 is a whole bunch. the 914 trani can only handle 300hp/tq. but 250 im guessing would be a good number for the trani, and the less you go the better. jus something to chew on. |
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| J P Stein |
Jul 6 2004, 11:49 AM
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#6
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Dude, I'm done preaching.
A 3.6 L will allow you to exit that 80 mph corner and arrive at the next corner at 130 rather than 120. |
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| URY914 |
Jul 6 2004, 11:57 AM
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#7
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 124,247 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
If I could plant a jet engine from a 767 in my car I would.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) HP in a race car. In a street car there is a point where enough is enough. Paul |
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| Howard |
Jul 6 2004, 12:00 PM
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#8
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Incontin(g)ent Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,785 Joined: 24-July 03 From: Westlake Village, CA Member No.: 943 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 6 2004, 08:45 AM) OK, I'm geting old........ I've tried out my 2.7L hot rod on twisty public roads. Using it anywhere it's potential on public roads is socialy irresponsible. While pushing it around a marked 45 mph corner you glance at the speedo and your going 80...and the tires are still solidly hooked. Everything is under control, but you're a deadly danger to everything around....cause you can't see far enough ahead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Suzi can scare me, Moby Dick does it sooner and more often. Call me older: IMHO it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. As the Beach Boys said, "When I catch rubber in all 4 gears" is a good way to attract unwanted attention. Sky's the limit for track, but good torque over a wide range is the killer combo for 'Canyon Dancing'. And how fast can you go when you can come around a blind corner and meet the bicycle brigade? |
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| freestone |
Jul 6 2004, 12:06 PM
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#9
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 1-September 03 From: ny Member No.: 1,102 |
I am here to learn. (And I do race regularly, btw, but just in a different car completely).
So, the consensus here is that the torque curve on the 2.7 is fine for all street (twisties) applications? And having 914-6 rear brakes and SC fronts are fine, even though they do feel spongy to me. Now if that shifter could only feel better - but it is a 901. Last thoughts? Sorry to be a pain, but you have tried all of these and I haven't. Thanks, |
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| Andyrew |
Jul 6 2004, 12:15 PM
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#10
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,377 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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If they feel spongy, have a pro bleed them. Ie take it to a shop to bleed the brakes. If that doesnt do it, rebuild your calipers, take out the proportioning valve (if you still have it in there) and either put an adjustable T or a regular T (both would work, but you have a little more playing around with the adjustable one's.. especially if you put bigger brakes up front.)
A 2.7 will have the grunt. I have to say, I enjoy driving my slow car fast sometimes compared to the turbo's my dad has.. Andrew |
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| siverson |
Jul 6 2004, 12:15 PM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,451 Joined: 5-May 03 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 654 Region Association: Southern California
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In general, the replies on these types of posts are "do what I did because I'm happy with the results" - which is a good thing. So I'll add my two cents: I'm really happy with the 3.6. The additional cost of a 3.6 compared to any well done six conversion is marginal, so I say go with the better/newer engine. Besides the obvious more torque and horsepower, the 3.6 is light years ahead of the earlier engines in regards to reliability and drivability. Modern fuel injection and cooling is very nice - nice idle, always starts, smooth power, low/constant temperatures, lasts forever. And it's fast. IMHO, if a nice 2.7-3.2 conversion is $10k, a 3.6 is easily worth the extra $3k ($13k total?).
-Steve |
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| iamchappy |
Jul 6 2004, 12:18 PM
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#12
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It all happens so fast! Group: Members Posts: 4,893 Joined: 5-November 03 From: minnetonka, mn Member No.: 1,315 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
It sounds like you are looking for nice drivable power but not enough to end up sideways on a throttle blip. I turbocharged my CIS 3.0 in order to get that little extra I felt the stock engined car was missing. Now I have a nice drivable car that turns on only when I want it too, yet performs like stock when I am taking it easy. The performance gains are remarkable for the minimal cost to install.
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| SirAndy |
Jul 6 2004, 12:25 PM
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#13
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,943 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(siverson @ Jul 6 2004, 11:15 AM) So I'll add my two cents: I'm really happy with the 3.6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (although i don't have a 3.6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) ... if you go big, go with the latest technology you can get your hands on. a 3.6 gives you the same output as your 2.7, but in stock trim with a nice FI that'll start every moring and idle perfect. it'll last longer (much, much longer than a 2.7RS) and it has a decent torque curve. and if you get tired of it, you can bore it out to a 4.0L and hot-rod it ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy |
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| cha914 |
Jul 6 2004, 12:28 PM
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#14
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MUSR 8 - 5lug conversion done wed - drive 500miles thrus Group: Members Posts: 739 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 63 |
Geeze...a guy asks a civilized question about what is usable horsepower on the street and gets jumped for being a street racer...
I think torque is much more important for a street car than pure HP, and alot more fun. Also, factor in how easy it is to drive. My 914 has a fairly peaky motor it in with a lightened flywheel, so it doesn't have the best street manners, but thats what I get for having a dual purpose car. I can't really help with a motor choice because I have really only drooled on big motor 914's much less driven them. From what I hear a stockish 3.2 is hard to beat... Tony (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) |
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| Mueller |
Jul 6 2004, 12:39 PM
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#15
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,150 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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I think I would be afraid to drive a 914 with a 3.6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ...I think Steve is running some huge tires on his car, I've got 255's on 9" rims on my 3.6 911 and I have no problem getting them to break traction with a stomp of the gas pedal and my car easily weighs 500 to 700 pounds more than a 914.........I would think a stock 2.7 would be a blast in a 914.......
as for your brake issue, I've had good luck with pressure bleeding the brakes, not too sure if you still have the prop. valve or not, it might be worth getting a more modern replacement unit for your shifting, make sure all of the bushings are in good condition, if your shifter itself is real loose/sloopy, the Rennshift is a great upgrade |
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| J P Stein |
Jul 6 2004, 12:42 PM
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#16
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(cha914 @ Jul 6 2004, 10:28 AM) Geeze...a guy asks a civilized question about what is usable horsepower on the street and gets jumped for being a street racer... In the future, I'll check with you before I venture forth with my opinions. Fair enuff? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| SLITS |
Jul 6 2004, 12:50 PM
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#17
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 6 2004, 10:42 AM) QUOTE(cha914 @ Jul 6 2004, 10:28 AM) Geeze...a guy asks a civilized question about what is usable horsepower on the street and gets jumped for being a street racer... In the future, I'll check with you before I venture forth with my opinions. Fair enuff? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif) Well JP, you're almost Canadian (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif) |
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| RON S. |
Jul 6 2004, 01:01 PM
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#18
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9140430841, FINALLY RUNNING Group: Members Posts: 1,212 Joined: 22-May 03 From: WALTERBORO,S.C. Member No.: 724 Region Association: South East States |
I too'll chime in.
I like others started my project,with something simple in mind. I thought I'd go w/a 2.4l,webers,and a 901 box.Keep it simple.I bought one,and even had it in the car.That way I could just be out having fun,but like others,a project ends up taking more turns than 12 hours at Nurburgring. I came across the 3.6 and decided,WTH. Horsepower is already there,modern FI.and as big as you can get from the start. It's taken more time,money,effort,and I haven't even yet had the chance to get it on the road.I still believe it was the right choice for me. But,you gotta go where heart will lead,and your wallet can follow. Me,I've done mine with some D.E. in mind somewhere down the road.The wife and I both wanna learn to drive this car correctly,and have some fun while we're doing it. Ron Attached image(s) 
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| scotty |
Jul 6 2004, 01:03 PM
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#19
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The Fun Never Stops Group: Members Posts: 773 Joined: 20-May 03 From: Portland. Oregon (SW) Member No.: 718 Region Association: None |
QUOTE I think torque is much more important for a street car than pure HP, and alot more fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I love the down-low grunt of my 2.7: driving in traffic is more enjoyable when you don't have to shift so much. Every once in a while though, I wonder what it'd be like with e/s cams and higher compression... much more enjoyable? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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| propricer |
Jul 6 2004, 01:25 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 365 Joined: 16-April 04 From: Morgan Hill, CA Member No.: 1,938 |
Since you already have a 2.7 and said you like low end grunt, how about a twin-plug 2.8L with G80 cams and the stock, but rejetted 40IDA carbs. Had one in my 914-6 and the only thing that ever beat me was a 900CC Ninja !!!
If you want top-end, go with the 3.6L Good luck ... and go to BIG breaks with a 21 or 23 mm MBZ master !!! |
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