Tdc with no viewing ports? Options

[Radmacdaddy]

I'm viewing the great valve adjustment article over at pelican & have my one wheel off the ground to get it just right but I have no viewing ports into my flywheel.

How then can I get the tdc worked out?

I did the straw in the #1 cylinder trick too, put it in & note when it is most pushed out and before it goes back into the chamber... But it still feels like its not just right.

Thought?

[PancakePorsche]

I marked my fan with 180 degree mark painted a different color. Any chance you can drill a small viewing hole in the bottom of the Vanagon transaxle ?

[vwsamba]

TDC is not THAT critical for setting the valves, just take off the distributor cap and note which cylinder is coming up, turn until points open on that cylinder and then set that cylinder and move on. from your other posts your compression is good so valves are not your problem for lack of power or smoking, all you need is compression spark and fuel for power, the smoking may be residual oil in exhaust or leaking rings/wornvalve guides.

[mikea100]

I'm viewing the great valve adjustment article over at pelican & have my one wheel off the ground to get it just right but I have no viewing ports into my flywheel.

How then can I get the tdc worked out?

I did the straw in the #1 cylinder trick too, put it in & note when it is most pushed out and before it goes back into the chamber... But it still feels like its not just right.

Thought?

I followed these steps:

1) remove spark plugs and driver's side valve cover
2) insert straw into 1st cylinder and rotate wheel till straw is all the way up and both 1st cylinder rockers were out. Rockers have to be out to make sure that it's compression stroke.
3) make sure that distributor rotor points to the notch at 11 o'clock.

Hope it helps.
Mike

[r_towle]

TDC is not something to worry about when adjusting the valves.
Get the rocker arm in question closed to adjust it.
To do this, look at the other side of the motor and turn the motor until the rocker on the other side (same valve type...) is fully open, which you can see.
Once the valve is completely open, the valve on the opposite side is completely close and ready to be adjusted.

forget what you have read and just think about it for a minute.
You have 8 valves in this motor, and you have four cam lobes on the camshaft.
The camshaft lobes are shared with the same valve type on the opposite side of the motor.
When one valve is open and on the top of the lobe, the other side valve must be closed and on the bottom of the lobe.
Then you can adjust it.
Read the above paragraph as many times as you need to till it makes sense.
You wont need to ask anymore questions about how to adjust valves once it makes sense...it will seem so stupid simple it will make you smile.

For your smoke issue and low power.
Rings have a top and bottom.
Top = facing the head
Bottom= facing the crankshaft.
They are marked with two dots typically so you install them in the correct orientation.
Rings have an angled edge that runs against the cylinder...so it matters ALOT that you installed them properly to ensure you ahve decent compression.

Also, on the rings.
They need to be very free in the piston ring groove.
They need to be able to expand as the piston moves up into the compression stroke.
the ring gap is critical...it needs to be set with enough clearance so you dont bind up that cylinder and break a ring.

If that is all done right, you should see enough power to drive it.
The rings will need to be seated but I doubt you will get a decent seat on those glazed cylinders....so just hope for the best.

I would still suggest that you tune it up, time it properly, and clean up the fuel system, filter change and all to get all the fuel you need.

Also remember the little things.
timing is 1432 looking down on to the distributor, clockwise.
The motor will run with the wires hooked up wrong...but it will run like crap.

Also, what type of fuel system do you have?
Carbs or fuel injection?
Lots of smoke and low power could also be a flooded motor.
It may be a fuel system issue now.


Rich

[Radmacdaddy]

TDC is not something to worry about when adjusting the valves.
Get the rocker arm in question closed to adjust it.
To do this, look at the other side of the motor and turn the motor until the rocker on the other side (same valve type...) is fully open, which you can see.
Once the valve is completely open, the valve on the opposite side is completely close and ready to be adjusted.

forget what you have read and just think about it for a minute.
You have 8 valves in this motor, and you have four cam lobes on the camshaft.
The camshaft lobes are shared with the same valve type on the opposite side of the motor.
When one valve is open and on the top of the lobe, the other side valve must be closed and on the bottom of the lobe.
Then you can adjust it.
Read the above paragraph as many times as you need to till it makes sense.
You wont need to ask anymore questions about how to adjust valves once it makes sense...it will seem so stupid simple it will make you smile.

For your smoke issue and low power.
Rings have a top and bottom.
Top = facing the head
Bottom= facing the crankshaft.
They are marked with two dots typically so you install them in the correct orientation.
Rings have an angled edge that runs against the cylinder...so it matters ALOT that you installed them properly to ensure you ahve decent compression.

Also, on the rings.
They need to be very free in the piston ring groove.
They need to be able to expand as the piston moves up into the compression stroke.
the ring gap is critical...it needs to be set with enough clearance so you dont bind up that cylinder and break a ring.

If that is all done right, you should see enough power to drive it.
The rings will need to be seated but I doubt you will get a decent seat on those glazed cylinders....so just hope for the best.

I would still suggest that you tune it up, time it properly, and clean up the fuel system, filter change and all to get all the fuel you need.

Also remember the little things.
timing is 1432 looking down on to the distributor, clockwise.
The motor will run with the wires hooked up wrong...but it will run like crap.

Also, what type of fuel system do you have?
Carbs or fuel injection?
Lots of smoke and low power could also be a flooded motor.
It may be a fuel system issue now.


Rich

Really great reply Rich, THANK YOU!

I'll work with what you passed on, and see where I stand.

Any thoughts on why I may not be firing on 3&4? This is where the tdc issue came up.

Also, is 132psi too high for #1? #2 has 128, #3 has 120... #4 not sure as can't get there easily at the mo.

I just don't know about my rings on #1. I didn't understand the "top" which is written on these rings... foolishly thought that it meant top of piston as I was looking at it, which made no sense as they would all have the gap in the same direction. I'll pass that uncertainty on to the midnight parking lot jobs I've been stuck with.

Starting with adjustment based on your guide Rich, thanks.

I have some pics here, one is a shot of my distro. Note that the notch is 180 from #1, but all guides say that should align with tdc... just wondering if that is an issue. Want to know if I should worry about it or not.

Another is of the engine compartment...

[r_towle]

It not possible to install the distributor 180 degrees off.
It is possible to install the distributor drive gear 180 degrees off.

The piston comes up top twice....
Turn the motor so the rotor points to that notch.
See what the valves look like on number one cylinder.

No firing on 3/4 might be fuel related....clean that carb's jets.

Rich

[Radmacdaddy]

I only have carb feeding both sides.

Ok, so notch to which valve open. Got it.

[r_towle]

you are at TDC when the Intake valve is just about to open.
Rock the motor back and forth to see it just about to open...then take a look at the rotor position.
From there, I would setup the wiring on the distributor to match 1432 from that point on the distributor.

Rich

[Radmacdaddy]

Looks like I've been real close to tdc all along.

I want to adjust as you describe above. So I'll do that now.

[r_towle]

loose is good, loud but safe, tight will make you lose power.

Rich

[Radmacdaddy]

So, I have hydraulic valves. Tom Wilson says 2 turns in. I'll go with 1 1/2, as I've seen this as a happy middle ground.

[wingnut86]

Great detail in there guys.

Randy - After you get her going again, swap your fuel filter down the road as it was sitting how long? Try and burn all your gas in the tank before you fill up again, if she is running real crappy close to the end of the tank, you will possibly have"floaties" or other fuel/tank solids as well as syrupy fuel to the filter.

NO, don't worry about this now as you at least HAVE fuel - just make the note for later...

Wingnut86

[Radmacdaddy]

loose is good, loud but safe, tight will make you lose power.

Rich

Am I ok to just crank the shaft until the valve is about to engage, open, and the adjust right from there? As I did for #1 intake as you suggested?

That's what I'm doing. #1&2 done after stopping for a tooth brush & face clean break (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[r_towle]

for a rough setup, yes that is right

[Radmacdaddy]

Ok, I'm adjusted. Now the firing.

I see in my earlier post that I mistyped. I only have one carb. So no cleaning one side.

What can I explore to uncover my no firing issue on 3&4?

[SirAndy]

So, I have hydraulic valves. Tom Wilson says 2 turns in. I'll go with 1 1/2, as I've seen this as a happy middle ground.

I thought the setting for hydraulic lifters is 0 lash? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Radmacdaddy]

So, I have hydraulic valves. Tom Wilson says 2 turns in. I'll go with 1 1/2, as I've seen this as a happy middle ground.

I thought the setting for hydraulic lifters is 0 lash? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Tom Wilson says 2 full turns. But this article is the best of seen on hydraulic valve adjustments. http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html

[Radmacdaddy]

r_towle... you've given some REALLY useful info, so, far... do you have any thoughts on the misfiring beyond cleaning the single carb... which feeds 1&2 fine, so I'll miss that for the moment I'm thinking.

How can I test for too much fuel, would that continue after running down the road after a bit, albeit roughly?

Spark looks good.

I think I'll pick up a timing light at the Walmart in this parking lot, and check that for a good tuneup, eh?

[messix]

Check the spark plug wires, do you have a volt ohm meter? Check the ohm resistance of the wires. A high resistance on a wire or two can cause misfire underpower and if realy bad at idle'