Wonky prices for 914 parts/cars, driven by greed, What can we do about it? Options

[JeffBowlsby]

I know its all about supply and demand and what some are willing to pay, but sometimes we see pricing on 914s and 914 parts that are completely beyond reason. Some are taken by these scams. Most will recognize these ploys, but a greedy seller needs only one sucker and the whole hobby for our cars suffers.

Would it be useful if we as a club developed pricing guideline for parts/cars, based on recent sales of similar, condition, rarity, and listing other options, like available repro sources for those that are not aware?

Post your horror stories! Lets out these low-lifes.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[rick 918-S]

I know its all about supply and demand and what some are willing to pay, but sometimes we see pricing on 914s and 914 parts that are completely beyond reason. Some are taken by these scams. Most will recognize these ploys, but a greedy seller needs only one sucker and the whole hobby for our cars suffers.

Would it be useful if we as a club developed pricing guideline for parts/cars, based on recent sales of similar, condition, rarity, and listing other options, like available repro sources for those that are not aware?

Post your horror stories! Lets out these low-lifes.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

New factory OEM dashpad, this fits the later 914 cars with the side air vents. Some would call it NOS, but its not old, I have had this about 5-6 years, stored in climate controlled indoors. I special ordered it at the time and it took 6 months to get from Germany, they have not been available since that time. It originally came to me unopened in the Porsche logo box, but I used that box for other purposes, sorry I don't have the original box anymore.

You won't find a better dashpad than this anywhere, or at any time in the future. I am looking for top dollar! The last NOS dashpad I know of, sold for $1750. in May 2008, and I have not seen another one since.

The lowest amount I will consider is $1000. and I realize it may not sell. Email your highest and best offer not later than Sunday Dec 12, 2010, at 12 Noon PST, which is the deadline to receive your email offers. A decision will be made by 6pm Dec 12, 2010 PST when I will notify you if your offer is accepted. Payment will be cash if you are local to me, or certified cashiers check, or paypal (you pay paypal fees). If shipping is necessary, you pay shipping and insurance costs. No other fees will be added.

Act quick and you can receive it for Christmas.

Email me at jeff-dot-bowlsby-at-sbcglobal-dot-net

Merry Christmas!

New 2.0L SSI Heat Exchangers for Porsche 914, with the solid stainless steel rear flanges. These are date coded 1997, and I was told at the time I bought these that SSI only had 4 sets left, so this is truly the last of the last and no more have been made since. I have had these about 6-7 years, and they come in their original boxes and packaging. I only opened these for the first time recently, to take these photos.

I am looking for top dollar! The last NOS set of these that I know of, sold for $1460. in June 2009, and I have not seen another set since.

The lowest amount I will consider is $1000. and I realize they may not sell. Email your highest and best offer not later than Sunday Dec 12, 2010, at 12 Noon PST, which is the deadline to receive your email offers. A decision will be made by 6pm Dec 12, 2010 PST when I will notify you if your offer is accepted. Payment will be cash if you are local to me, or certified cashiers check, or paypal (you pay paypal fees). If shipping is necessary, you pay shipping and insurance costs. No other fees will be added.

Act fast and you can receive them for Christmas.

Email me at jeff-dot-bowlsby-at-sbcglobal-dot-net

Merry Christmas!

I think it is a little unfair to call out Jeff. He is a concours guy and was selling NOS stuff. Jeff loves this hobby and is extreemly fair with pricing. He is not one of the price gougers...

Anyone who had a new dash or "in the box" set of SS HE's could have easily put theirs up for sale at a lower price. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) You have either of these? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

The problem arises when there is activity in the back ground designed to fix a price at an inflated amount or attempt to pursuade a seller to offer his part to a buyer for a higher price than they intended.

That is alot different than someone offering a one time chance out in the open market to own the perfect dash pad or set of new in the box SS HE's for your concours car.

If I had the Raspberry car when Jeff offered these parts or ever thought I would own a car worthy of the parts I would have been a bidder.

[Brett W]

I will happily chair the Committee for Fairness in Pricing. Then everyone can benefit from my benevolent decision making. All sales will be conducted based on approval from the CFP. Anyone that is caught making an illegal sale will be banned and their profits will be confiscated by the CFP for re-distribution to the community. Thanks for your concern.












Caveat Emptor.

[Prospectfarms]

Ah,the land of capitalism, we all love the concept until it hits our wallet... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

If you are criticizing J. Bowlsby's OP as being somehow anti-capitalistic you don't understand the term.

A club can't control prices so don't worry about that. Even within an absolutely unregulated economy, the buyer is still permitted to seek and receive information prior to a transaction. A club is a group of potential buyers and are free to disseminate info about a potential transaction without violating any free market principles.

Organizations do this all the time. Even businesses, e.g., "Don't buy stock in ATT at the current price 'cause they didn't sell many telephones this month." Anyone heard of "consumer reports?"

Knee-jerking against consumer protection as being somehow in opposition to capitalism is a really bad idea.

The only problem I have with Jeff's proposal is that it sound's like too much work.

[ptravnic]

I feel dumber after reading read this thread.

[shuie]

Greed? Really? Is anyone making any real money selling parts for these cars? I seriously doubt it. Anyone who got into this stuff just to make money is probably broke.

I am extremely grateful for the folks who sell parts on the forums, ebay, swap meets, etc.. I have been buying parts that I NEED for my cars for 10yrs on the forums. Most of the folks that I have been lucky enough to deal with were nuttier about these cars than me. These guys have spent 10-20+ yrs acquiring their inventories. There is a real cost associated with this behavior (rented trailers, rented storage units, angry wives, etc.). I seriously doubt that they do, but good for them if they make a buck or three after dealing with all of this.

[VaccaRabite]

The thing about pricing guidelines in fluid markets is that they are obsolete the instant they are published unless someone is spending significant time updating them. As an admin, I can tell you that I would not support it - I like the little bit of a life that I have.

For instance - how many 914s have you seen sell lately at the last Excellence valuation?

I've gotten excited and made bad buys. I've done my homework and made good buys. Its how life goes. We can educate here - and we do. We all advocate looking around, READING and LEARNING before buying. Some people do and some people don't.

Zach

[Prospectfarms]

The thing about pricing guidelines in fluid markets is that they are obsolete the instant they are published unless someone is spending significant time updating them. As an admin, I can tell you that I would not support it - I like the little bit of a life that I have.

That was perfectly well said.

[J P Stein]

I know a fella down in Oregon who is on Porsche's very short buyers list. He's one of the few folks that Porsche calls when their warehouses get overloaded with "obsolete parts." He buys bulk NOS and when Porsche needs one of em'....which happens, they buy from him. He's prolly told this tale to several thousand folks over the years.
NOS parts really shouldn't enter into this conversation. Msteins dash probably came from Gary via the great circle route (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I prolly still have an AA catalog around somewhere. I sold about 6-7K worth of "914 stuff" which helped me build my race car.....that's at 50% of AA prices...or less. It was all nice stuff (one exception I can think of....fuckin' T-4s). The rusty shit went into the recycle or dump.

Each of us is self policing. Either you have integrity or ya don't. Some "Rule" ain't gonna help one damn bit.

Back before the net I was into a group of guys that could be trusted. The group grew to the point that you could "get the straight dope" on about any Porsche part buyer/seller. Los of money took snail mail and it was a comfort to know who you're dealing with. It could be done here if folks would listen rather than argue. Bullshit travels at the speed of light these days. That is tough to overcome.

[somd914]

Ah,the land of capitalism, we all love the concept until it hits our wallet... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

If you are criticizing J. Bowlsby's OP as being somehow anti-capitalistic you don't understand the term.

But what definition of capitalism are you referring to? There are many, e.g.:

"Free market capitalism consists of a free-price system where supply and demand are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by the government."

Shall we insert the word "club" for "government"?

In general, the driving factor is to make profit.

I know I over pay on some items, but if I need it and don't know when it will be available again, that's the price I pay.

I find it ironic that everytime a house goes on the market in the neighborhood, everyone is hoping for a high selling price to boost their equity. Yet, when they are buying, they want it cheap.

[IronHillRestorations]

I have a lot of respect for Jeff B., but this truly is a can of worms. Brett W may have summed it up best.

All that said, if you get ripped off and you want to vent without slander or libel, that's your right. If you're aware of a known rip off and you want to expose them, that too is your right. If you want to somehow create and post a fair market value for used parts, I guess that's your right too. If you pay too much for something without due dilligence, or make a impulse buy for something that's over priced, you are the only one to blame (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

[Krieger]

Yeah, the collective should set prices on all used parts for the greater good therefore protecting the weaker members who spend to much....comrade. WTF, you guys haven't figured out how to shop around?

[Mike Bellis]

Yeah, the collective should set prices on all used parts for the greater good therefore protecting the weaker members who spend to much....comrade. WTF, you guys haven't figured out how to shop around?

You are right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

Steel flares $50 each
3.6L engine $50 each
WAS Top $50 each
PMB Brakes $50 each
Rust free bodies $50 each
GTS seats $50 each
Getty Dash $50 each
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[Krieger]

Now your talkin' comrade Mike! All that don't follow Mike's pricing guidelines will either be sent to re-education center or gulag.

[JeffBowlsby]

Whoooooaaaaa nellie....

It looks like my original post may have been mis-interpreted and has gone sideways.

I merely floated the idea of a price guideline, to serve as a resource, and point of reference. Price control, price fixing, banishment, floggings and ex-communication- never suggested.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

See my page here for sales history on orignal-ish exceptional quality 914s. If one wants to know what a $12K 914 looks like or a $25K 914 to compare it to...this is one point of information. http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/RecentSales.htm

Same thing with my NOS/NLA parts pricing 'guide'. These are top $ prices from documented sales of NLA parts. http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/NLAParts.htm

The point of this is that if an NOS painted front early bumpers' recent high dollar mark is $293...an $800 asking price is off base....(just an illustrative example, not a real circumstanceui)

We could potentially organize/maintain the 'guide' collectively, like the 'Parts vault'.

[hwgunner]

Well, what I think is you might get into a problem with the pricing thing. Isn't it just the opposite of the guys that are price fixen, I mean just the same?? I do everything I can to make sure that I am competitive (read "lower than the compition"). Should I raise my prices? (well some of them, anyway?)

I hate used parts because they are so hard to put a price on. I hate it because I never want to cheat someone. (I have tossed stuff because I felt like asking any$$ would be asking too much) I have seen things that were out of line and I have seen things that I bought because I knew I could double my $$. If you are going to try and price guide one side you have to do it to the other too.

As for NOS- it is what it is. Certain items are just not available all the time and so the prices tend to fluctuate more. I have to admit that I listed a couple NOS items recently at prices that I thought were high but they sold quickly. The thing about the lenses on ebay is that the seller is going to pay 11% in fees if not a little more and eventually they will be worth more if the buyer keeps them new.

On the other hand, just a few days ago, I had some one post on one of my threads, where I was selling a new item at $95.00 LESS THAN the list price and what the manufacturer sells it for, saying that people could get them for less if they went to the manufacturer and asked nicely becuase the manufacturer was actually a nice guy. What, i'm not a nice guy?? Do I need to lower my price more?? This is a business for me and quite frankly, I need to make more or I am not going to last much longer. Don't get me wrong, I love the cars but I also need to make money on them or I will have to go get a job at Costco or the local mini-mart. Anyone want to buy a business???

What do we do?? If it is a used part being sold on this site and you think it is over priced and you have one to sell or know someone who has one then post it. On the otherhand, if it off this site then buyer beware. I think we could start by not deleting the old FS/WTB adds. Then you could go back and see what items sold for or ask the people who sold or bought.

BTW, when talking about ebay, please note that I never pay less than 11% in fees, even on items upt $1000 (ebay and PP combined) but rutinely pay 15%+ on items between $0 and $100. Ebay aint cheap.

Mark-- you can flame me now for doing what you think I said you could not do!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)


Last, do you all remember what happend when good used targa seals started going for $500-$1000......................









Porsche saw the oppertunity to make some $$ and made them again, irreguardless of what the aftermarket was doing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Prospectfarms]

Ah,the land of capitalism, we all love the concept until it hits our wallet... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

If you are criticizing J. Bowlsby's OP as being somehow anti-capitalistic you don't understand the term.

But what definition of capitalism are you referring to? There are many, e.g.:

"Free market capitalism consists of a free-price system where supply and demand are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by the government."

Shall we insert the word "club" for "government"?

In general, the driving factor is to make profit.

I know I over pay on some items, but if I need it and don't know when it will be available again, that's the price I pay.

I find it ironic that everytime a house goes on the market in the neighborhood, everyone is hoping for a high selling price to boost their equity. Yet, when they are buying, they want it cheap.

Ok, so you didn't get it the first time.... turn off Fox News for a few minutes and focus. 914world can't regulate prices. That's not the point of Bowlsby's post. 914 world can provide a means for members to communicate their opinions about the value of a used car part. That is what other "clubs," like the "Wall Street Journal", do every day.

Jeff was proposing a more systematic "system" for tracking and reporting the value of used car parts. That's what the "new york stock exchange" does every day. E.g., if I offer you a share of Stuartco for $10 you know I'm full of BS and don't buy 'cause it's only trading for $5 right now on the NYSE.

Giving and receiving opinions on value and tracking prices are hardly contradictory to a free market, rather, they are absolutely necessary for the market to operate. Without a reliable way to gauge a market, no one buys .

Some of you have been conditioned to believe that asking sellers to follow rules or disseminating market information is anti-capitalistic. At least that is how it's sounding to me. Why for goodness sake should doing so be OK for Standard and Poors, but not you, or the organizations to which you belong? If 914 world had the resources to track sales of used car parts, they could publish a daily price sheet for used car parts and that would help, not hinder "free market capitalism."

[drive-ability]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Some times its just (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
My insurance said my car had 25,000 worth of damage, sure shocked me ! I guess you have to pay extra to get someone to work on cars like ours. I never realized I was being paid so well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[somd914]

[/quote]


Ok, so you didn't get it the first time.... turn off Fox News for a few minutes and focus. 914world can't regulate prices. That's not the point of Bowlsby's post. 914 world can provide a means for members to communicate their opinions about the value of a used car part. That is what other "clubs," like the "Wall Street Journal", do every day.

[/quote]

Wall Street Journal provides analysis for investors, not information for product consumers. They have a much easier task. It doesn't matter if you own the very first share of Porsche stock ever offered, or if you bought yesterday, a share is a share is a share. Their is no concern for its condition, its availability, and the volatility of a collectors market.

To try to track sales of parts and publish a dbase is an extremely enormous task, and the value of it is only as good as the data that goes in. Anyone at anytime can ask members for an opinion on value of a particular item, and I've seen it done here and on other forums. But this market changes so quickly, I don't see the value - we are hobbiest, not investors, we are not making money off of our hobby, but I wish I could.

[J P Stein]

To try to track sales of parts and publish a dbase is an extremely enormous task, and the value of it is only as good as the data that goes in.

IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE.

This is where the "listen" ( maybe I should have used "read") part comes in......you can read, EH?. If so, see pg1 of this thread.

Every 914 part with Porsche's new price and AA's used price (at the time) along with part #s and exploded views.

It' not current and the source is suspect but gives anyone that can read (& comprehend) a starting point at least. No "Nanny State" guidance is included for the "no child left behind" unfortunates.

[jaxdream]

There was an Ad recently in our Classifieds for Parts that I normally Give Away for Ridiculas Prices. I was going to put in a Response but that is Rude

Was it from Lurker with 0 posts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
One suggestion...again...is to limit ability to post in the classified section unless registered &/or post count threshold reached.

Its unfortunate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Jack