Any 928 Owners out there?, I have a few questions Options

[Tom_T]

I have heard that the 928 was very popular in Europe for its ability to tow a sailboat...

I've seen/read that too, and also have seen/read about several on the 928 forums online who tow their AX/DE/etc. P-cars to the track with their 928s, similar to the guy in the pix I posted above.

[jim912928]

I just sold my 83 928....was my daily driver (and for 1 year I commuted from IN to WI every week). I probably put 80k miles on that car, no issues, unbelievable cruiser, dependable. It has a lot of torque and is almost idling at 65MPH. I'd get in the low 20's on the highway..about 15 in the city. I never had electrical problems, but mine was also a virgin as the previous owners never mucked with any wiring. Only thing that would make me nervous was if I could visibly see if anybody had hacked up the wiring harness..that would be a red flag.

[Tom_T]

I just sold my 83 928....was my daily driver (and for 1 year I commuted from IN to WI every week). I probably put 80k miles on that car, no issues, unbelievable cruiser, dependable. It has a lot of torque and is almost idling at 65MPH. I'd get in the low 20's on the highway..about 15 in the city. I never had electrical problems, but mine was also a virgin as the previous owners never mucked with any wiring. Only thing that would make me nervous was if I could visibly see if anybody had hacked up the wiring harness..that would be a red flag.

Thanx for the tips & info Jim,

Was it 85> that they changed to the better wiring harness to eliminate or at least minimize the electrical problems of the early 928s? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I'm guessing that because I saw in the 928 PET last night that the towing electrical hook-up option/accsy. had 2 alts. - IIRC they were for pre & post 85 MY.

If it goes the way of the 928 & I can solve the hitch wt. issue - and just as importantly if I can "sell" my wife on a 928 - then I'll try to find an old hand 928 expert to do a PPI, since I don't feel I know enough on those (914s I'm great with).

15 city & 20 highway sames about the same as our 88 Westy - so no loss there, plus a load more power.

BTW folks - my wife has been "lobbying" for a GoWesty big bore 2.5L waterboxer on the next engine rebuild/top-end of "her car"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[zambezi]

I love when people talk about how these cars are unreliable and expensive to own and full of electrical problems. Of those people I always wonder how many have first hand knowledge of this. Or do they just know someone who knows someone with the problems. I am going on my 7th year of DAILY driving my '82 928. My only problems that prevented me from driving the car any of those years were a busted clutch hose and a pressure plate that got destroyed when the throw out bearing locked up. I have no electrical problems, never touched the torque tube, not done the timing belt yet but have the parts to do soon, and drive the heck out of the car. If you look above the liscence plate you will see the plug for my draw tight hitch. I have recently picked up an Austin Healey at the paint shop with an aluminum trailer. The car has plenty of power for pulling but can't handle a lot of tongue weight.

[jim912928]

I don't believe there was any direct change of wiring to deal with issues. 928's get tagged by a lot of folks as having electrical gremlins (mine never did)...but the real issue was in the massive amount of advanced (for the time) montiors and electronics. Just about everything is monitored in 928's (turn on the ignition and it looks like a space ship lighting up with all the diagnostic lights). Due to that it has a lot of wiring, a lot of relays and dual analog computers. How many 80's cars will tell you on the dash that you have a back light out? With more electronics just comes more issues when something arises. The problems come into play when folks try to fix things themselves. As I said above mine was a daily driver for years...and it NEVER once left me stranded. Only maintenance I did was normal fluid changes, timing belt (although the 16V non-euro engines are not interference...just never wanted to be stranded), water pump (only because I was in there to change the belt), wheel alignments and plugs.

86.5 model years started bringing in the 32V engines which are interference...thus you get a lot more diligence on timing belt changes...cheap insurance. I'm not sure, but I believe around 85/86 they changed the air conditioning system (which would draw more power and push for a bigger alt) to have a rear unit that was mounted between the rear seats vs. the luggage compartment that was optionally there. This did deal with an issue of heat due to that massive rear window. They also started, around that time, bringing in more digital electronics on the dash versus the analog setups...more modern looks but, again, power draws which had them amp up stuff.

Sharks are great cars and like any Porsche will cost more to repair...but what upscale car doesn't cost more to maintain? It's a dependable super cruiser that you can get pretty cheap relative to their original costs. One thing to note when you test drive one...the automatics start from a dead stop in 2nd gear. So if you are looking for that neck snapping start you either have to floor it (the gas pedal will hit a mechanical switch that will drop the tranny down into 1st) or manually shift it. The design here is for smooth comfortable cruising...thus they started it out in 2nd. It's a beast when you drop it in 1st. It's also a rocket ship from about 70 to 140!

[Drums66]

btt.

Huh?? ... wtf is btt?

.......btt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)(ask scarface)

[SUNAB914]

Yes Tom I'm still here, matter of fact headed to Camp Pendleton today for the week. let me know when you are coming this way, love to have you over.

[Tom_T]

Yes Tom I'm still here, matter of fact headed to Camp Pendleton today for the week. let me know when you are coming this way, love to have you over.

Sent you a PM with my cell, give me a shout hile you're here & we can get together, as it's close & my nephew is stationed there too.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

I love when people talk about how these cars are unreliable and expensive to own and full of electrical problems. Of those people I always wonder how many have first hand knowledge of this. Or do they just know someone who knows someone with the problems. I am going on my 7th year of DAILY driving my '82 928. My only problems that prevented me from driving the car any of those years were a busted clutch hose and a pressure plate that got destroyed when the throw out bearing locked up. I have no electrical problems, never touched the torque tube, not done the timing belt yet but have the parts to do soon, and drive the heck out of the car. If you look above the liscence plate you will see the plug for my draw tight hitch. I have recently picked up an Austin Healey at the paint shop with an aluminum trailer. The car has plenty of power for pulling but can't handle a lot of tongue weight.

Beautiful 928! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)
.... I'm slightly more partial to the early shark styling, but both versions are nice.

Thanx for the info. The tongue wt. is what I'll have to solve, because the rest seems to work out well for towing.

I think it's the usual buy a good one, have a good experience, but a thrashed shark & pay the price - same as 914s! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Tom_T]

I don't believe there was any direct change of wiring to deal with issues. 928's get tagged by a lot of folks as having electrical gremlins (mine never did)...but the real issue was in the massive amount of advanced (for the time) montiors and electronics. Just about everything is monitored in 928's (turn on the ignition and it looks like a space ship lighting up with all the diagnostic lights). Due to that it has a lot of wiring, a lot of relays and dual analog computers. How many 80's cars will tell you on the dash that you have a back light out? With more electronics just comes more issues when something arises. The problems come into play when folks try to fix things themselves. As I said above mine was a daily driver for years...and it NEVER once left me stranded. Only maintenance I did was normal fluid changes, timing belt (although the 16V non-euro engines are not interference...just never wanted to be stranded), water pump (only because I was in there to change the belt), wheel alignments and plugs.

86.5 model years started bringing in the 32V engines which are interference...thus you get a lot more diligence on timing belt changes...cheap insurance. I'm not sure, but I believe around 85/86 they changed the air conditioning system (which would draw more power and push for a bigger alt) to have a rear unit that was mounted between the rear seats vs. the luggage compartment that was optionally there. This did deal with an issue of heat due to that massive rear window. They also started, around that time, bringing in more digital electronics on the dash versus the analog setups...more modern looks but, again, power draws which had them amp up stuff.

Sharks are great cars and like any Porsche will cost more to repair...but what upscale car doesn't cost more to maintain? It's a dependable super cruiser that you can get pretty cheap relative to their original costs. One thing to note when you test drive one...the automatics start from a dead stop in 2nd gear. So if you are looking for that neck snapping start you either have to floor it (the gas pedal will hit a mechanical switch that will drop the tranny down into 1st) or manually shift it. The design here is for smooth comfortable cruising...thus they started it out in 2nd. It's a beast when you drop it in 1st. It's also a rocket ship from about 70 to 140!

Thanx for the good info. Jim!

Other than the typical "net gripers" & self-proclaimed experts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)
... the only thing I've found on the electrical was this in the most recent Excellence 928 Buyers Guide:

"The earliest 928s have some undesirable features and I encourage you to avoid them. The 1978 and 1979 models had problems with their electrical systems, vacuum door locks, and air-conditioning. Changes made for model-year 1980 fixed these problems and made the 928 much more reliable, so I recommend looking for 1980-and-newer cars."

link to it here:
http://www.excellence-mag.com/resources/bu...guide/294251490

I talked to a former Porsche mechanic at the Porsche Swap meet this afternoon (err.... yesterday now), who said that the problem was that they were heavily optioned with electricals, so there was more to go wrong, just as with MBZs, BMWs, etc. - but certainly nowhere near the problems of the 80's Big 3 [edit: #] products!

He was also saying that the later 32V 5.0 EFI Plenum design (smaller unit w/ shorter tubes) in 87> [edit: 88>] was better for low speed performance, than are the 84-86/86.5 [edit: 86-87] ones with the larger unit w/ longer crossover tubes, due to the air/fuel mixture feed. However it sounds like even the early 4.5 & 4.7 928s have little problem towing (within spec'd limits of course).

EDIT ADD FYI: This was per Kurt Donohoe, owner of Porschetechnik in Flagstaff AZ, who was a Porsche dealer mechanic for many years & knows both 928s & 914s - in case anybody gets "stuck" in Flagstaff. He said 87-on was the best for for the 928s & that 87-89 or up to 91 - with the improved 5.0L 32V motor with the smaller tuned intake plenum producing more HP & TQ, larger Brembo brakes, etc. would be best for my needs, since the later 92/93-95 era ones were so scarce & are more pricey.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Tom_T]

btt.

Huh?? ... wtf is btt?

.......btt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)(ask scarface)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) ... sorry, that means nothing to me!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

... we had a well endowed gal pal in the group we ran around with in the 70's for whom we modified her first name initial to add the BT to describe her better..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Tom_T]

I wonder what is the "tongue weight" for the trailer hauling that humungous boulder that they're moving from Riverside County to the LA museum, that's been in the news the past week!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Tom_T]

I love when people talk about how these cars are unreliable and expensive to own and full of electrical problems. Of those people I always wonder how many have first hand knowledge of this. Or do they just know someone who knows someone with the problems. I am going on my 7th year of DAILY driving my '82 928. My only problems that prevented me from driving the car any of those years were a busted clutch hose and a pressure plate that got destroyed when the throw out bearing locked up. I have no electrical problems, never touched the torque tube, not done the timing belt yet but have the parts to do soon, and drive the heck out of the car. If you look above the liscence plate you will see the plug for my draw tight hitch. I have recently picked up an Austin Healey at the paint shop with an aluminum trailer. The car has plenty of power for pulling but can't handle a lot of tongue weight.

Zambezi - Where did you get your hitch & installation?

That's a very clean job & looks like a better & less visible one that the factory optioned.

Those all sound like normal wear & tear type items, & which sometimes "stuff" (aka (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) ) happens repairs.
Nothing I'm hearing nor reading anywhere in my research is scaring me off of 928s - as a GT cruising, nor for lighter duty towing.

The only question for me now is whether the tongue wt. limit can be safely resolved for my wife's planned trailer.
GTW/GVW for the T20 Avion that my wife is eyeballing is on title as 2400#, & so I'm guessing a tongue wt. of 240-250# if 10-11% of GTW, based on their other trailers of that periods GTW to TW ratios.

So I'm looking at these units as a possible solution to reducing the tongue wt. on the 928's hitch, by carrying most of it on the "hitch helper's" wheel(s) & axle.
There are 2 & 1 wheel varieties & large & small wheel mfgrs. that I've found so far, as in these pix .... and that new Airstream 16' actually weighs more than 3000# & has more trailer wt. than do the vintage ones of comparable sizes.





(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[blitZ]

If you need to temporarily stiffen your rear springs for towing, Air Lifts work very well. I've had these on my Pathfinder for 10 years. Just add some air to level the trailer and stiffen the rear springs.

Air Lifts

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.airliftcompany.com-4719-1331123251.1.jpg)

[Tom_T]

If you need to temporarily stiffen your rear springs for towing, Air Lifts work very well. I've had these on my Pathfinder for 10 years. Just add some air to level the trailer and stiffen the rear springs.

Air Lifts

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.airliftcompany.com-4719-1331123251.1.jpg)

Thanx for the tip Les! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Geez .... I just (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) every time I see your Blue/Tan 914 avatar beauty too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I may use those too, but will still need something like the "Hitch Helper" or "Stinger/Hell-Ya" or a similar set-up attached to the trailer's tongue frame to reduce the tongue wt. from 250-300# down under the 928's 110# limit, if this is going to work out.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Tongue/Hitch Weight reduction seems to be the crux of the matter here for me now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[my928s4]

My 91 had a hitch light in the dash pod, presume with a factory hitch and harness it might have lit up.




I would have thought you would be better of with the auto for towing, they can handle more HP than the 5 speeds. Pre-MY85 the Porsche syncro's on a 5 speed could be an issue which with towing might hamper you.

Biggest issue with 928's are the PO's, aftermarket stereos and alarms are what cause the majority of wiring problems. A refresh of certain relays and cleaning of the ground points also help resolve other electrical gremlins.

You are in Orange County, 928intl is just around the corner for advice and parts.

928's are a steal right now, unless you want a project you can pick up a 928 that someone else has sorted.

All your 928 questions are better answered on Rennlist, that is where the 928 crowd hang.

[Tom_T]

My 91 had a hitch light in the dash pod, presume with a factory hitch and harness it might have lit up.




I would have thought you would be better of with the auto for towing, they can handle more HP than the 5 speeds. Pre-MY85 the Porsche syncro's on a 5 speed could be an issue which with towing might hamper you.

Biggest issue with 928's are the PO's, aftermarket stereos and alarms are what cause the majority of wiring problems. A refresh of certain relays and cleaning of the ground points also help resolve other electrical gremlins.

You are in Orange County, 928intl is just around the corner for advice and parts.

928's are a steal right now, unless you want a project you can pick up a 928 that someone else has sorted.

All your 928 questions are better answered on Rennlist, that is where the 928 crowd hang.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
... DAPO's are your worst enemy with any older vehicle! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Thanx for the info & pix Chris! Nice looking black 928-S4 you have/had there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

We'd only look at automatics, so it's a good DD for my wife, since she has foot issues being an RN for 35+ years, and for me on long trips where we just want to cruise - since we already have a 5-spd in both my 85 325e & the 73 914-2.0 whenever it's resto is done.

Speaking of the latter & seeing your pic of your 928 towing the 356 - eventually an enclosed trailer for my finished 914 to CW events would be a possibility too, and I know of a certain crazy 73 914-2.0 owner & 914-6 AXer nearby who may then press me into service to tow his black night over to the El Toro AXes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I like the early shark body style with the 5.0 - so that's 85 & 86 (86.5 VIN...>1000 for the Brembo big brakes), or maybe 87 in the newer body style, or 88-89 for the revised intake manifold. I may look at an 86.5 after the Zone 8 CW "weenie school" on Sat.?? ... too early to think of buying without towing answers & the trailer, but just for food for thought at this point! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I agree that they're cheap now, but hopefully a good ready-to-roll sorted & well cared for one at a good price will eventually hit the value upswing & go up in another decade after some easy 2-5k per year use by us! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

I plan to tool over to 928intl sometime soon, if this tongue wt. question can be solved.
I'll hit Rennlist & Porsche928forums with questions too then, if this get more serious on buying.

The beat goes on....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

A 928 with factory hitch option towing light trailer with TT Bike FYI ....



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Tom_T]

Another 928 with "caravan" in tow:



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Tom_T]

This is an old ad of what my wife is looking at, being towed by a `60's mid-sized wagon with probably a big straight 6 or V8, but with far less HP/TQ than the 928.



... or a bigger trailer towed by a shove-it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


It was far more common to tow travel trailers with cars up through the 1960's & 70's - before the proliferation of today's pick-ups, SUVs, etc. - as it still is in Europe, UK & Canada.

Read here:
http://www.rvlifemag.com/file363/hitchhints363.html


.... more food for thought! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)