Why aren't 914's worth more $$$? Options

[euro911]

It's obvious there's a valid appreciation for the 914s uniqueness, based on the number of people on this and other 914 boards.

I really didn't like the boxy look of 914s when they first hit the market. I have to say that my original perceptions were also formed by the mainstream Porsche crowd's view that 914s were just a bastard step-child. I too, liked 356s and 911s more (as well as 550s, 904s, etc.), but then I actually drove a 914 in '73 and started feeling differently about them.

I've noted price increases over the past few years. Maybe not the big bucks that other classics fetch, but we've all seen some nice examples command significant money, in both drive train configurations.

I also think it's just a matter of time ... as the supply of good stock specimens dwindle and more are scrapped to rebuild others, I believe we'll see prices start to increase significantly, just like 912s.

[Scott S]

"Few, if any, aspired to a 914. If you lusted for a Porsche, it was a 911 you coveted. Cars that have skyrocketed were the ones people wanted but couldn't afford."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

There is no market for these cars. I would be willing to be that the members of our webpage family make up 95% - maybe even 99% - of the market for these cars. And while there are definitely exceptions, for the most part we are looking for a deal. Everytime a nice car comes up for sale with a larger asking price, there is almost always a discussion pointing out what is wrong with the car and why it is over priced.

A GT with history will always sell fast and for big money. The sixes obviously do better, but personally (like what is quoted above) if given the option between concours 914-6 and a very nice 911 long nose driver, I would absolutely go for the long nose - and I love 914's.

The -4's will always be an also ran to most folks outside of this community.

I dont forsee the average values ever remotely reaching the levels of the 356 or the 911 until we (the 914 community) are willing to pay that kind of money for a car.

Yes, yes - I know - we have seen some cars sell for decent money. But that thought process is backwards. In the 911 and 356 circles the cars have consistantly strong selling prices - the odd balls are not the ones that go for big money, they are the ones that sell for cheap.

Love them for what they are. I sure do. I want a real GT - hopefully someday. I also really want a V8! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[porschefile2010]

Nice to see a very clean 74' 1.8 for sale over on Samba at $14.5k. If it's as good as it looks he might just get it too.
We are definately seeing a split between keeping cars absolutely original with owners hoping for appreciation and major peformance improvements where the car loses it's originality.
Personally I'm in the originality camp, and achieving a good original car can cost but also be very satisfying.
I can also understand why people stick more power, suspension and brakes in them as they are a perfect platform for it. Porsche tried to do that back in 1970 but it was too expensive.
Each to their own. Whichever way you look at it they are a great little car.

[mepstein]

Many are worth more in parts than trying to restore. The cost of restoring a rusted body kiils it for many cars.

[carr914]

The Next Question ( while somewhat related) is a what point would we have "jumped the shark"?. I mean at what Dollar Point are we going to be satisfied, but yet not lose enthuists?. There comes a point where they won't be an "affordable" Classic. Don't we kind of see this here already, where people would love to have a "-6", but may never be able to pull out the cheese unless they find one in a Barn

[DBCooper]

That's a good point. If 914's appreciate like some people hope then not many of the CSOB's who currently frequent this place would still be here.

[Scott S]

"... at what point would we have "jumped the shark""

I hope they never do. I hope the cars stay cheap. This site and this group of people is why I come here. I get to play Porsche with real car guys that I enjoy. There is very little/none of the common problems that are usually asscciated with a prestige brand. There are plenty of other models/marques/web pages/clubs that a person can go to argue about what direction screw heads should be pointed or to be chastized for modifying a car or asking a "dumb" question. Go to a Jag club meeting. I would rather brand myself with a soldering iron. No thanks.

There is something different about folks who like 914's, regardless of their back ground. I love that.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[larryM]

Great discussion!

- I agree with the comment below - I fear we are our own market - and a small one at best - most of us have a need to sell the 914 we have before we can get the something else

I do see fellows who already own a 911 deciding to get a 914 for a father-son project, or as a time-trial car for themselves or a family member - 914's are acknowledged even by 911 guys as one of the best PCA track cars you can field - even if one is less than enamored of the styling - outside of PCA the 914's acceptance is a different matter

in that - the PORSCHE MYSTIQUE is a powerful factor - the Porsche Club is a superb social network that few other car clubs can rival - and fortunately PCA is large enuf to accomodate all kinds of events and diversity of interests

PCA comraderie and events opportunity is the main thing that has kept me from selling my own 914 (tho i've been caught saying i'd trade it in a heartbeat for a Tiptronic Boxster S) - owning anything PORSCHE means we get to be in the best car club there is - (at least for as long as the older 911 & 356 guys keep doing all the club work)


- at general "all-makes" vintage car shows and cruises I find my 914 is an attraction to little kids & to lots of folks who "had one in college"

- y'all will find that a night at a local cruise, or a week at Hot August Nights or other car events, will be filled with many admirers and long conversations about the 914 they once had,

(little kids think our 914s are cute - like toys, like they popped out of a crackerjack or happy meal box)


you'll also be regaled with stories about the one they have in the backyard or barn and are "gonna restore someday", or "put in a six"

or the 914-4 that the brother-in-law spent $10,000 on flares, paint & upholstery, but can't get it to run or pass SMOG or some such problem and it's not registred - - "and would you know anybody who wants to buy it????"

(the answer is "yes, but expect to get back only about 30% of the "investment"") -

(i have luckily gotten back as much as 50% of the cash i've sunk into a "restored car") ( on the other hand i have actually made money on 914/6's and 911's i have bought & parted out instead of fixing - you'd think i'd get the message)

(we can't talk about the contributed labor in the "investment" - tho i often see that as part of the value pitch on cars i look at)

- as the lady of the house points out - "that car is just a hobby - think of it as a trip to London, or a night at the slot machines - the money is gone" -

regarding the VW myth -

I meet lots of young guys at these local cruise events who have one of those non-running basketcase 914s in the backyard, usually inherited by abandonment

- they want to know about finding parts, engines, etc (I am always happy to freely give info on sources & prices, and I often offer to look at their projects and give help & advice, and I tout the benefits of PCA) - and they are generally delighted to learn they can find VW parts to get on the road, and of course make it fast, dreaming of how great a car they are going to have one day by the sweat of their labor and minimal cost -

- I hear only an occasional snide "VW" catcall from some teenager who loves flaming tailpipes low-riders and doesn't even own a car yet, who is nevertheless trying to amuse his entourage

There is no market for these cars. I would be willing to be that the members of our webpage family make up 95% - maybe even 99% - of the market for these cars. And while there are definitely exceptions, for the most part we are looking for a deal. Everytime a nice car comes up for sale with a larger asking price, there is almost always a discussion pointing out what is wrong with the car and why it is over priced.

[Woody]

I happen to work at one of those dealerships that wont touch a 914. As a matter of fact, we won't hardly touch anything older than 90 unless it is in great shape. This is not because we don't know how, it is because we are way too busy with the new cars and there are cheaper alternatives locally that I can highly recommend. I have actually worked on a 914 that was brought through the dealership by our used car department. I replaced a throttle cable and syncronized the carbs. It was a rare occurance.
Our dealership charges $135 an hour, how many of ya'll would be willing to pay that for even a simple oil change or valve adjust?

[SchwarzHorse]

A current market guage: Black original '73 with 1.7L for over $10,000.00, so far. Watch for yourself and aspire:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewIt...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_flagge6.gif)

[billh1963]

A current market guage: Black original '73 with 1.7L for over $10,000.00, so far. Watch for yourself and aspire:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewIt...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_flagge6.gif)

Of course, you never know how much shill bidding is occuring as well.

[Sea Dragon 914]

I've been driving 914's for almost 30 years. I remember in high school in the late 70's and early 80's that 914s had a bad reputation. As others mentioned, they were not considered "real Porsches" unless they had a six. I remember going to early Porsche events (back when Riverside International was around if any of you remember) and seeing tee shirts that had 914 that said real Porsches with the highlighted "6".

Back in the day in SoCal, 914's were more associated with VW's by the younger group. When I was in high school (and probably before and since), the coveted cars were the muscle cars or the exotics. Driving around in my dad's 76 Triumph Spitfire got a lot of attention because it was cute. That car was a gutless pos that was always in the shop.

When I got my first 914, my friends asked why I got that and didn't spend a little more to get a real Porsche like a 912 or 924. I remember getting my doors blown off by a few of my friends' muscle cars, bugs, ghias and even a modified mini truck with a V6 in it. Funny thing was they smoked me in the straight line and when we drove from San Bernardino to my parent's cabin in Arrowhead or vice versa, I have my stuff out of the car and be relaxing before they arrived. They used to say that my ugly "VW" was gutless in the straight line and couldn't believe what it could do in the twisties. They also said it was a pretty ugly car and couldn't tell if I was coming or going since it was so boxy.

The other thing about the 914s was that they are a pain to work on and expensive if you pay someone else to work on them. Body work sucked because of the unit body construction (is that what it was called). If you dinged a fender, you couldn't just unbolt it to replace it.

Anyway, I've loved the cars and have owned one since 1983 (might have been 1984). I don't know why I didn't get a 911 or something else. They just felt right to me. Of course sometime I kick myself for buying my first 74 2.0 instead of the Jag XKE or the 64 Corvette convertible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[avidfanjpl]

There are a lot of very valid points here. I think the car is increasing in value for good ones, with Steve Gaglione's being 2 of the top one's anywhere.

I think that the phenomena has to do with time and appreciation by a group of people that are making more money, and that DO NOT have the 356 appreciation, simply because of their current age and their 1970-1990 youthful experiences. I have owned 6 since 1975. And now I own a 1987 Carrera. Again, youthful lusts come home to roost!

I just finished sorting my 1972 914-6 conversion AX car, and my 1973 914-2.0 mechanically, and unless someone comes along and throws money at me, I will hold Orangina for the decade coming to see how it fares.

No, I don't expect to make money, but if you don't need the money, especially right away, and you like driving it a couple of days a month, you can enjoy it and not lose money.

I think that the style is still so unique that it will always turn heads and elicit college roommate comments, as does mine.

But, until that wave of 356's gets firmly cemented into history and air-conditioned collections, the 914 must wait.

Check out that very interesting article in Hemmings this month. I just got it from a bud in SW FL and it is exactly what is happening. 356's are sky high, and 914's are getting more credible every year that passes.

We are not crazy for loving the style.

John

[larryM]

see this long parallel value thread on the Early S Registry -

914/6 collectability

I have seen several recent posts here saying y'all have spent $5K or so just on your paint jobs, after ya personallly did hundreds of hours of prep & fixit

in yesterday's MGDriver - DIY article on a complete color change strip-repaint - " it costs $2000 in materials and $10,000 in labor at current shop rates" -


"If you are a True Believer, keep your eye on the prize and understand that, although your own passion might be great, others won't necessarily share it. " (~ Isaac Seliger )


[quote name='DBCooper' date='Mar 12 2012, 03:36 AM' post='1644068']
[/quote]
The original question was why 914's aren't worth more. The answer is that they're worth what they're worth. If they were worth more people would pay more, but they don't. ...... you didn't pay much for it when you bought it, so is it really a problem that you don't get much for it when you sell it? [/quote]

[billh1963]

In the end, the biggest winners will be those who buy the car because they like it and drive it as often as possible. Lots of people have tried to predict the market and lost. I look back at the people who bought TR8's, TR6's, DeLoreans, etc. and put them away.... expecting the big increase that never came.

Buy the car you like, enjoy it as often as possble, keep it well maintained and don't worry about it! You may be sitting on a goldmine....but, even if you aren't you won't lose money.

[struckn]

Reality check!

....when you bought yours, if the price was two or three times higher then what you paid would you have still bought it? Probibly not and you would not be having so much fun having one now.

....If your 914's value jumps to twice or three times it's current value would you still drive it with out a higher degree of fear that you might ding it or park it somewhere that there was a risk of theft or damage....i.e. Wal-Mart parking lot?

.....Would you drive it as often, or only on special occasions, events, or never at all.

.....If you lost you 914, hopefully not, would you feel like a large part of your retirement investment just went up in smoke, or no college fund for your kids?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[larryM]

check this op-ed by Martin Swig

Collector cars as investments


.

[poorsche914]

I find it interesting that he actually mentioned the 914 in a short list of cars:

"Much later, MGBs, Mustangs, Camaros, 914s, GTVs and 240Zs were important to us. And now that we have some money, we’re only too happy to write a big check to buy a memory."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Scott S]

And now that we have some money, we’re only too happy to write a big check to buy a memory.

I stand by my beleif that a 914 is a long way from being viewed as a true collector car to those who are not part of the 914 community.

- however -

your post did just remind me that I seriously tossed around the idea of dropping 12k+ on a mint green 1978 VW Rabbit a few years ago! Those were great days!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Dustin]

I remember the first time I ever saw one of these cars. I was about 8 years old. It passed us on the freeway as I was in the back seat of my dad's Oldsmobile. I said something like wow what kinda car is that. My dad told me it was a Porsche. I said it sounds like a bug. He said well, it has a Volkswagen engine. I thought they were cool ever since that day.

Prices for these cars are going up for examples in good condition. Here's a 76 2.0 that looks stock to me that sold for 17k. While this car is totally clean, this isn't a prime example. Everybody really wants 73s and 74s.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application...d=443&pop=0

Heres a 1.8 that sold for 17k too. Again not a prime example.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application...d=403&pop=0

Nearly all of the 914s that I see for sale are rotting or have been chopped up. This does mean there parts are available and deals to be had. Remember though, for collectors the most important things are condition and originality. Cars that are not as designed by VW/Porsche are never going to be near the top of the value curve.

A connection with Volkswagen isn't a bad thing these days. Volkswagen has a huge following.