My 3.3L Subie Conversion Thread, Got me some 914rubber stuff Options

[a914622]

They i forgot to ask were did you get the engine crale from? Im running out of time to fab up the one in my head. I want to hear mine rumble before the snow flys.

jeff

[Chris H.]

Thanks Jeff! I figured you were busy. I had a million other things to do anyway so no worries, but my harness is getting very close thanks to your help.

I bought the cradle from Ian. He started a business called cold water conversions and has a lot of the stuff we converters need. I think he just got married and moved so not sure exactly what his plans are moving forward.

Link to the site is:

Coldwater

It's a very simple mount...but sturdy.

[Chris H.]

Nope,

OSHA approved hazmat cleanup tool for "leaded" fuels;-P

Yeah in the leaded fuel days they just poured it down the drain! Remember when leaded fuel was referred to as "regular" gas? "Unleaded" was weird, unusual stuff.

[Chris H.]

Wow, that is super clean. Everybody is somebodies DAPO. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'm a DACO! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (and the c stands for current).

A good example of this would be on page 7 where I ponder rolling the rear fender lip on a car that has 15mm spacers on it...HELLO????..MCFLY????? How about just taking a few mm off of the SPACER and not bending the fender out on one side? DUH!

I didn't do it yet so no harm done.

[Chris H.]

Got the radiator attached to the engine lid, but first....

A lesson for newer 914 owners. Can anyone tell me what is wrong with this fuel line?



Yes...slotted non-fuel injection clamps. They will eventually poke holes in the fuel line ends causing a fire in the engine bay.

See how they dig into the hose?



Should have removed them years ago. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Chris H.]

So the radiator...well the good news is it's very wide @ 36 inches (36x11). That is also the bad news since it was listed as being 31 inches...(must have been just the finned part measurement). It will not fit in the front trunk (MYTH BUSTED). So if this doesn't work I'll need a new radiator. For $65 it seemed like a fairly cheap gamble.

The very heavy mounting brackets were removed from the rad which weighed as much as the rest of it and I attached some 10" fans to what is technically the front. Due to the slight curve in the lid the fans fit great between the rad and the lid. So air can be pulled through rather than pushed. The lid will need some louvers in the upper part if this works...Don't want a GT lid at this point. For cooling while the car is moving I'm playing with a crazy idea involving pushing air through the former heater tubes...we'll see.

Here's how it looks....as I hoped the rad is actually higher than the rain tray was clearance-wise...you have to remove the cross brace in the lid. I'm aware that the rad cap will need to be dealt with and I ordered the recovery tank stuff Mike B. recommended in his commentary (and also in a flurry of PM's which he kindly responded to).







I don't expect this to work perfectly out of the gate but I have to see if it works at all. If not...at least we can check it off the list.

[Chris H.]

Speaking of radiators and such...been working on the wiring. If you're doing your own radiator setup rather than going with Renegade, etc, the fan wiring is not as simple as it seems. If using the stock ECU you really should consider using the engine fuse/relay box that came with the donor car. Based on searches of previous setups you should not just wire the fans to the fuse box or to an unused 914 relay unless you like the smell of burning wires and plastic. Each of my 10" fans is 80 watts. There's a sequence in the ECU re: when the fans come on and how fast they spin based on the engine temp. The Subaru relays are the only way to ensure you don't burn the harness up. I'll post how I did it once I get through miles of unneeded wires.

[Mike Bellis]

Speaking of radiators and such...been working on the wiring. If you're doing your own radiator setup rather than going with Renegade, etc, the fan wiring is not as simple as it seems. If using the stock ECU you really should consider using the engine fuse/relay box that came with the donor car. Based on searches of previous setups you should not just wire the fans to the fuse box or to an unused 914 relay unless you like the smell of burning wires and plastic. Each of my 10" fans is 80 watts. There's a sequence in the ECU re: when the fans come on and how fast they spin based on the engine temp. The Subaru relays are the only way to ensure you don't burn the harness up. I'll post how I did it once I get through miles of unneeded wires.

You are correct. Fans should always be on a relay. I like to use Bosch or equivalent. I have a thermostatic fan relay trigger a pair of Bosch relays for my dual fans. The system is setup so the fans can run even when I turn off the key. They usually stop running within 2 minutes of stopping.

For your setup, I am concerned with forced air flow. Fans cannot push air through a radiator effectively. They must pull air. The 914 engine bay air flow through the engine bay is very weak due to the design. It was never meant as a forced air cooling device. The flaps at the rear pan created a low pressure area so the T4 fans could preform better. The engine tin divided the top and bottom of the engine air flow. The roof line creates turbulence, the bottom of the car creates turbulence. There is co consistent flow and I'm not sure which way the natural flow without engine tin travels.

With the radiator up front, forced air while driving travels threw the core without the aid of the fan. At slower speeds or hotter days the fans supplement the natural flow of air. In your radiator location, your fans will need to run all the time and once the temps exceed the fans flow cooling delta, the engine will overheat.

I think you have your work cut out for you. You may need to create a scoop on the underside of the car to force the underbelly air up through the engine bay. Vortex generators on the trailing roof line will help mitigate turbulence on top. I also think your fans will need to be on top of your radiator pulling and not below pushing air.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Chris H.]

I was waiting for you to chime in Mike!

So the good news is that the fans are between the radiator and the lid so they will be pulling air through the radiator rather than pushing. I was planning to engineer some sort of intake system to force air from under the car or from the front through the heater tubes and up through the rad.

I'll play with it for a while and then most likely go to a front mount like everyone else. We'll see what happens!

If you have any ideas throw em out there.

[ruby914]

I was waiting for you to chime in Mike!

So the good news is that the fans are between the radiator and the lid so they will be pulling air through the radiator rather than pushing. I was planning to engineer some sort of intake system to force air from under the car or from the front through the heater tubes and up through the rad.

I'll play with it for a while and then most likely go to a front mount like everyone else. We'll see what happens!

If you have any ideas throw em out there.

Don’t want to be a drag but…
My first thought is burping the air out will be a PITA, 2nd thought is the heat from the engine will naturally want to rise thru the radiator.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Mike Bellis]

Don’t want to be a drag but…
My first thought is burping the air out will be a PITA, 2nd thought is the heat from the engine will naturally want to rise thru the radiator.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Assuming he burps it with the engine lid open, most of the air will get out. Maybe a custom filler neck on the radiator so it is level with the ground.

Really the bigger issue is F-ing around with the engine, dodging the hot radiator, while the fan screams in your ear... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Chris H.]

Burping shouldn't be too bad. I can point the rad nearly straight up or even leave the lid off the hinges to burp it. That way it will be the highest point of the system. I'll leave the water hoses long so it will be a little more flexible.

There are actually two fans Mike. So twice the fun. Also just realized that I will have the ability to grill things on my engine lid. YEAH! Who wants a burger? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/jsharp.gif)

We'll see if I can get some flow directed through the lid while the car is moving. If not it's probably not going to work but AT LEAST I TRIED IT! I won't drive it far so if it gets the slightest bit too hot I'll just shut it down.

Now back to the wonderful wiring harness...

[CptTripps]

Would you be able to mount the fans under the radiator? The heat would pull-THROUGH instead of push-TO the radiator.

[euro911]

I think Chris IS pulling from the bottom up and blowing out the grille on the engine lid.


With the total weight of a full radiator and all, you might need to install some gas struts to help open the engine lid and a latch to hold the lid in the open position to work in the engine bay ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Chris H.]

Yes, the fans are installed to pull through the radiator and out. They are reversible as well which is cool if I need to reuse them on a "normal" system.

Mark, you're right on the struts...been thinking about that as well. IF this works I will need stronger lid hinges and springs as well as a prop bar of some kind. Pretty sure Mike B thinks I will burn myself otherwise... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blowup.gif) I'm sure that's right.

Speaking of Mike...he must be a Star Wars fan...here's the tank he recommended for the recovery tank...I love it and will have my daughter paint it like the Death Star, which is what is looks like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . BTW I did see a picture of it before I bought it so I was aware of what it looked like beforehand. There are dozens of shapes and sizes you can buy. I think the round shape is a great design. It's a VW/Audi item that is on Jettas, A6's, Beetles, etc.

[euro911]

Yeah, I thought the 'Beetle Bottle' looked familiar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

Now, go to a wrecking yard and cut the wiring plug off a car to fit the bottle. You can rig and idiot light to it so you will know when the water is low.

Just mount it up high and your system should always have available water.

I was going to use the same bottle but settled on the Passat triangular one. My engine compartment is stuffed full of things. The round bottle took up too much real estate.

[Chris H.]

Well, the engine lid radiator idea is dead...just not enough room up top. Think I'll keep the Cherokee rad for another project...who knows...

Ordered the 00-05 Celica radiator (~$100, not bad). The SVX stock fan setup will fit on it. Now I have to convince myself to cut the pristine front trunk. I want to make a fiberglass splitter that will cover the holes for a cleaner look (like Ruby914s).

[76-914]

Good luck with that radiator and the shipping goons. Mine had a Big GD footprint on it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Your blazing away. I know what ya mean about getting back to that wiring. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

EDIT: Chris, I have Greenlee hole punch's if you go that route up front.

[Mike Bellis]

I was hoping you would be the one that could make an engine lid radiator work. It's a good idea in theory but a PITA in practice. You could try Boxster dual front fender radiators. I might go this route some day. I miss having a front trunk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)