My 3.3L Subie Conversion Thread, Got me some 914rubber stuff Options

[Chris H.]

Hey George,

Kent is correct, my mount is from coldwater conversions.

It's a very good strong mount. I modified mine a bit because of a clearance issue with the headers. Need to do a bit of work on it in the next few days so I will post some pics of it installed. Just got it shimmed up to the perfect angle last week.

cradle link

You don't HAVE to use a cradle mount if you use a 901 trans, but I would go with one myself because the 3.3L engine is very front heavy and weights quite a bit more than the 4 cylinder engine @ ~350#. With a cradle mount the engine has some additional bracing front to back aside from just being attached to the trans, so your trans ears are under far less stress (reduces the "lever action" that Kent describes).

Other options: You could modify the smallcar mount that is used in Vanagon conversions and mount it to the stock engine bar like Amenson did.

Amenson mount link - mount is on page 1

The thing is that the smallcar mount is $359 for the 3.3 and then you have to modify it. The coldwater mount is $500..much stronger....bolts right in.

You could also do what Kent, Bob (BIGKAT_83) and others have done and that's fab a mount yourself. After seeing your skills on the resto of your car you could definitely handle it.

Give the Subie trans idea a while and you will probably change your mind.

BTW there are 3-4 SVX's up here for sale CHEEEAAAP. Craigslist.

[mepstein]

BTW there are 3-4 SVX's up here for sale CHEEEAAAP. Craigslist.

Same here. $400 on up. The 400 one has a bad trans which is normal in these cars but perfect for the swap.

[ThePaintedMan]

Thanks for the reply guys. That makes a lot of sense, especially the "lever" action of the engine. I really like Ian's cradle, but it's my understanding he isn't doing any more, at least for the time being.

It's one of those tough things, figuring this all out without ever having seen an SVX up close.

Again, I'll preface this with the fact that any kind of conversion is still years away for me, so humor me. But within the Chumpcar rules, these engines are the perfect way to add some power and reliability. The 914 is valued at $250 under the new Chumpcar rules, which extend into 2016. The goal is to keep the car's total value under $500, which means you can swap out another engine, sell the original and if it's under 500, then the car does not receive any kind of penalty. Unfortunately that means that the transmission swap is probably out. In general, this is all theoretical though - more important things to spend money on in life at the moment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Chris, have you been keeping a running tally of what you've spent so far? Anyone care to take a stab at a rough estimate of what a bare-bones SVX swap would cost, retaining the original transmission? Here's what I've roughly compiled.

Used engine, ecu and harness - $400
Radiator and fan - $150
Hoses - $100
Cradle - up to $600
TransAdapter and clutch - $800
Exhaust - $150
Fuel pump - $100
Fuel lines - $50
HiPo Stater - $150
Gauges - $150

Neighborhood of $2700 with that. My general rule is to double everything though, so probably closer to $5000?

[d914]

buy a svx cheap,, partially wrecked.. Bob bought one for $400.. scrapped it for $212..

You can weld you can make a engine mounts

tranny?? not in a SVX unless there was a conversion.

[Chris H.]

Your numbers are directionally right George. I don't have a running tally, but the "nickel and dime" stuff is what gets you on a conversion. If you have the patience to part out an SVX you can get the engine free or even make a few bucks. My donor was $600. I definitely ended up on the + side but have spent it all and more on the conversion. I'm not a fabricator so most of my $ was spent on the mounts, axles and such. You can get the costs down significantly by fabricating the mount yourself.

One area that needs to be addressed almost 100% of the time is re-sealing the engine. They leak in the same places as their German counterparts and after 15-20 years they are usually caked with oil. The total reseal kit is about $260, but the main area of leakage is the rocker/valve covers. Might get by with just doing those, the coolant stuff that requires o rings, and the cam covers. The oil pan does not have a “seal” per se; you use RTV to reseal it. The timing belt is non-interference, so you don't HAVE to do that immediately but you could. The exhaust might be a bit more than your estimate since the stock headers hang down really low. A set of aftermarket headers is ~$300ish. You could modify the stock ones I suppose. It's a race car so you aren't going for "pretty".

If the adapter kit for a 901 and a new clutch is $800 I'd (again) encourage you to consider a 5MT Subie. Bolts right up with no adapter, better gearing, stronger, etc. You can also use a stock Subie starter which in many cases comes with the trans. Bob might be able to help you source one cheaply if you give him some lead time.

As I said before there are several SVX's in my area CHEAP. If I had someplace to store them I would buy them all.

[ThePaintedMan]

Greg, thanks for the confidence. I'm sure I could fabricate a mount, it's more the mock-up and tube bending I'm confused about. I know that the Suby engines need to be in a pretty specific position, and I guess I just need to do some more reading to see how I would go about the whole process.

Chris, glad we think along the same lines. I too will not install and unknown engine or transmission in ANY car without going through the seals thoroughly. No sense making more work for one's self in just a few miles when it can all be done easily, and for relatively low cost before it goes into the car. "Preventative maintenance" as my dad always taught me. Speaking of the oil pan, do you not have any clearance issues? I know a few of the other conversions with different Subies people had to make pretty drastic changes to the oil pan to get adequate clearance.

Regarding the transmission, it's more the complication of fabricating all of the parts for a cable shifter, adapting the CVs/axles, etc that is a pain for me. Also, that's an added value component that would have to somehow fit under the $500 threshold, and most likely all of the other things would tack on value too. Again, lots of things to think about over the next year or so.

Your car is coming along great though, glad to see it! You're definitely doing it right, and I envy you, as well as Greg, who has a conversion of his own well on it's way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Chris H.]

No need to clearance the pan with the EG33. I think the EZ30 is fine as well. Maybe the 4 cylinder pans are taller/deeper? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) If I ever get the close up trans pics posted to the cable shift thread as promised you'll be able to see the pan. Hopefully tomorrow! I'll throw a measuring tape against it.

If we can get the cable shifter thing solved between the 5-10 of us who need them the Subie trans will be more attractive. You can get a starter much cheaper, you use the inner Subie CV's which are cheap and rarely fail, and the 914 axles can be re-splined. But if you want to stick with a 901 that's fine too. It's your ride and many conversions use it.

[Chris H.]

This is a terrible angle, but here's a shot of the oil pan. The clearance measurement is actually about 5.5 inches, which is the same as stock clearance at the cooling flaps (thanks Kent!). Most importantly the pan does not hang too low in proportion to the mount, which you can see surrounding it.

[d914]

Greg, thanks for the confidence. I'm sure I could fabricate a mount, it's more the mock-up and tube bending I'm confused about. I know that the Suby engines need to be in a pretty specific position, and I guess I just need to do some more reading to see how I would go about the whole process.

Chris, glad we think along the same lines. I too will not install and unknown engine or transmission in ANY car without going through the seals thoroughly. No sense making more work for one's self in just a few miles when it can all be done easily, and for relatively low cost before it goes into the car. "Preventative maintenance" as my dad always taught me. Speaking of the oil pan, do you not have any clearance issues? I know a few of the other conversions with different Subies people had to make pretty drastic changes to the oil pan to get adequate clearance.

Regarding the transmission, it's more the complication of fabricating all of the parts for a cable shifter, adapting the CVs/axles, etc that is a pain for me. Also, that's an added value component that would have to somehow fit under the $500 threshold, and most likely all of the other things would tack on value too. Again, lots of things to think about over the next year or so.


way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Hey forgot,, Craigslist transmissions with a bad center diff VERY cheap $100.... and since we don't use the center diff.... I have an old clutch that I didn't use....
Cable shifter junk yard $17
cables a little tougher about $140

Budget is getting better.... AN SVX is doable..... We have the technology!!

[Chris H.]

Good point Greg. I think Dean (now JRusts car that lucky %^%&*() paid something ridiculous like $65 for his.

I was also thinking for George's chumpcar he might want to use a FWD Subie trans. Might not be geared quite as well but it's already 2WD so he wouldn't have to convert it. Those are probably $100 at the junkyard as well. No diff locker or rear plate to buy though...

Hey Greg I've been meaning to bug you for some pics of your Honda shifter setup. Even if I can't use mine this round I'm still going to keep it for something else. I think you had to flip the orientation around on it...(Bob mentioned)

Any chance you could post a few whenever you have time?

[d914]

[

Good point Greg. I think Dean (now JRusts car that lucky %^%&*() paid something ridiculous like $65 for his.

I was also thinking for George's chumpcar he might want to use a FWD Subie trans. Might not be geared quite as well but it's already 2WD so he wouldn't have to convert it. Those are probably $100 at the junkyard as well. No diff locker or rear plate to buy though...

Hey Greg I've been meaning to bug you for some pics of your Honda shifter setup. Even if I can't use mine this round I'm still going to keep it for something else. I think you had to flip the orientation around on it...(Bob mentioned)

Any chance you could post a few whenever you have time?

Look up turbo the epic..d914... start from the back..it shows the preliminary set up.. I'm going to reinforce the console..

[d914]

here is the whole thing.. reversed is how it worked in the car I do believe.. Cable went forward in the car.

[Chris H.]

Thanks Greg. Man that is a beast you're building. The louvered hood looks cool. Almost stole the louvers idea when I was going to push my airflow through the trunk floor. A hole would cause a lot of debris and water to splash up, but louvers would keep most of it out. I DID steal your Celica radiator idea though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ! Not gonna lie!

So for the shifter you really just drilled a hole farther down towards the base in the left-right cable peg...OK I get it...looks like a really smooth install.

Here's the link to Greg's project so the search function isn't overloaded:

Subie Turbo The Epic

[IM101]

Awesome progress man, haha not too sure if i like the modifications to the cradle but hey, if it works who cares...

Also I like the avatar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[IM101]

Sweet I didn't even see this! So I went back and forth on the clearance issue, the first revolution I tried to position the engine low enough to avoid cutting the rear trunk all together. haha that ended up with about 1.5" of oil pan clearance when I got the car off jack stands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif). on my second time around I focused more on oil pan clearance and tried to get the pan on the same plane as the floor of the cabin. On the 4's the drain plug extends about 3/4" - 1" below the floor, which is acceptable to me. Plus this way if someone was really worried they could pick up a shortened pan from small car and actually have the pan recessed into the engine bay a little.

This is a terrible angle, but here's a shot of the oil pan. The clearance measurement is actually about 5.5 inches, which is the same as stock clearance at the cooling flaps (thanks Kent!). Most importantly the pan does not hang too low in proportion to the mount, which you can see surrounding it.

[Chris H.]

Yeah I'm not done with that mount...it’s a little ugly now but bear with me...the headers (or any headers) interfered with the cross braces. Probably unique to the EG33. My plan is to run a bar straight across underneath the trans just behind where the original braces connected at the rear which will connect the two sides and make the mount more rigid since it lost some rigidity when I removed the bracing. Then I will bring two pipes from that bar to the bar that the engine is bolted to. That will brace the engine and keep the torque flex to a minimum (which I think was the reason for the original bracing). Should be just as strong or stronger than the original. Then I grind off the nubs and paint it. Already have the materials, just need to get er done! BTW that .95 tubing is heavy!

And plan B is I mess it up and send it to you for repair (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

Re: pan clearance, it's as good as you can get with the eg33. I did have to cut the trunk for the starter but there are other starters that can be had that you would not have to clearance. Would much rather clearance the starter than bang the oil pan on the ground at speed or cut the oil pan and re-weld it (Lord knows we wouldn't PAY to have someone do it right!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ). Kent and DB did a great job with their starter covers, I'll just copy theirs.

edit: Then someday I'll add mounts for wheels like Kent did so I can easily roll the drive train around when I take it out. Genius.

[Chris H.]

Wheeew! This thing is dusty!

Time to get back at it. Really learned a lot over the long winter from watching others so it might have been a good thing that the extreme weather and my schedule brought this build to a grinding halt.

Next steps:

- figure out the accelerator cable
- build an alternator belt tensioner like Ross's (aka copy it, it's what I do)
- pull the rear calipers(or all of 'em) and send to Eric for rebuild
- new shocks/struts/springs probably (Eric again)
- strengthen my modded engine mount bar with some bracing
- plumb the radiator
- get the hydroclutch installed
- fix drivers side wheel spacing (it's too close to the inner fender well)

Hope to drive it to Garold's if he decides to tolerate us again this year... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

BTW for the Subie guys with actual accelerator cables (not drive-by-wire)...where did you get your cables? I think I remember you can order one from Terry Cable with a custom end so it works with the Subaru engine, or you can make one by cutting the end off of a stock 914 cable and putting a 3/8 cable stop on it. Sound right? Is the stock length OK? I'd rather order one with the Subie end attached professionally so let me know if you have a resource.

[nsyr]

For acc cable I went an additional 18 inches longer custom. Stock length was causing excessive wear and breakage.

[Chris H.]

Thanks. The stock one looked too short so glad I asked. Happen to remember where you got it? If not I'll call Terry Cable and report back.

[76-914]

Wheeew! This thing is dusty!

Time to get back at it. Really learned a lot over the long winter from watching others so it might have been a good thing that the extreme weather and my schedule brought this build to a grinding halt.

Next steps:

- figure out the accelerator cable
- build an alternator belt tensioner like Ross's (aka copy it, it's what I do)
- pull the rear calipers(or all of 'em) and send to Eric for rebuild
- new shocks/struts/springs probably (Eric again)
- strengthen my modded engine mount bar with some bracing
- plumb the radiator
- get the hydroclutch installed
- fix drivers side wheel spacing (it's too close to the inner fender well)

Hope to drive it to Garold's if he decides to tolerate us again this year... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

BTW for the Subie guys with actual accelerator cables (not drive-by-wire)...where did you get your cables? I think I remember you can order one from Terry Cable with a custom end so it works with the Subaru engine, or you can make one by cutting the end off of a stock 914 cable and putting a 3/8 cable stop on it. Sound right? Is the stock length OK? I'd rather order one with the Subie end attached professionally so let me know if you have a resource.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Glad your back, Chris. Left me sitting in this foxhole by myself. Misery loves company. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) Did it start snowing when you re-entered the garage? Re: the stock acc cable (and I'm talking out my ass because I haven't driven mine yet) seems like it will work. I changed it's pathway i.e. I removed it from the hole in the shelf and attached it to the firewall. The end fits my TB perfectly but then again mine might be different being a 3.0. As far as copying Ross' tensioner; "Emulation is the sincerest form of flattery", I doubt he will care. Order Eric's rebuild kit and do them yourself. It's easy and you will enjoy the rebuild. Glad your back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)