Facing a lot of choices...what would you do?, fianlly ready to reengage Options

[Type 47]

I had everything setup with a local guy that was well known...he wanted the car by May (yeah last May) completely apart; that came and he wasn't ready. So then it was get it media blasted by mid-June then he still wasn't ready...October came and went and he wasn't ready...he was fired I was stuck finding someone else.

I Found someone much better, expert on gen I Camaro's (I have a 69) but never did a 914. Anyway, he is going to do the car for a fixed price (car currently completely apart on a rotisserie) body work, straight, show quality paint job.

HERE IS THE ISSUE: I asked how much extra to do fender flares...response nothing, included.

2ND ISSUE: flares cost $1k, 5 lug conversion $850, tires wheels $3000...and do I put the 102 hp 2.0 back in it or the rebuilt LS1 I have sitting in the corner of the garage.

The LS conversion would cost $15k and I already have the LS1!

There is something to be said for just doing the 5 bolt conversion and putting a set of 5 bolt Fuchs on.

QUESTION...no flares, end up with 2.0 car with $18k invested...(invested, that's funny)...spent or $33k spent on the flared LS1?

Something tells me that I always wanted to be able to blow away 930's with my 914 but something else tells me I shouldn't blow away my bank account.

[damesandhotrods]

The first question is have you ever driven a nicely sorted 2.0 914?

[mittelmotor]

How about a narrow-body LS1 car? Sleepers are fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Fit an R-compound 205/50-15 (Toyo Proxes RA1 is my choice) and you'd be surprised how well it hooks up, being a light car, having the weight over the driving wheels, rearward weight transfer when accelerating, etc.

I fit 225s on 15x7 wheels (with some minor fender pulling and major lip flattening) on mine, and it works fantastic on the street, even with an open diff.

$5K-$6K of conversion stuff (basic kit, monster CVs/axles, radiator kit, redone wiring harness) from Renegade, and you're good to go.

--Doug

[Type 47]

The first question is have you ever driven a nicely sorted 2.0 914?

No not really...my 1st 914 was a 73 1.7 that I got in 1977. This is my 7th 914, a couple were 2.0's but nothing i would condsider nicely sorted.

[Type 47]

How about a narrow-body LS1 car? Sleepers are fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Fit an R-compound 205/50-15 (Toyo Proxes RA1 is my choice) and you'd be surprised how well it hooks up, being a light car, having the weight over the driving wheels, rearward weight transfer when accelerating, etc.

I fit 225s on 15x7 wheels (with some minor fender pulling and major lip flattening) on mine, and it works fantastic on the street, even with an open diff.

$5K-$6K of conversion stuff (basic kit, monster CVs/axles, radiator kit, redone wiring harness) from Renegade, and you're good to go.

--Doug

Here's the deal Doug...the body work is free for the flares...i can't imagine how the narrow tires would be able to hook up. my LS1 C5 Vette would just fry 11.5" tires.

I can total see the sleeper thing...I'm really good with the look...except for the application...and just smoking the tires when the Vette is way down the road.

[mittelmotor]

If you like the flared look and they're free, that's awesome! No clearance issues, and you can stuff in a wide tire.

As for hooking up with the narrow tires, it's not perfect, but a lot better than you'd expect with R-comps. Also, versus a C5 Vette, there's about a half ton less weight to accelerate, which makes an enormous difference when putting the power down.

As I prefer the narrow look, I considered getting some rear flares from Tangerine Racing that are very subtle, not the boxier 914-6 GT look.

If you decide on the LS1 route, feel free to PM me with any questions. I have a ton of build photos. Funny, one of the most challenging things on the LS1 was relocating the oil pressure sender...as you have to flip the intake manifold around 180 degrees, it doesn't clear the manifold. I used a series of 1/4" brass NPT fittings to get it to clear both the throttle linkage and manifold. Most everything else was pretty straightforward.

--Doug

[speed metal army]

Do the LS. Its not 15 k! Not even close!Mittle is closer to the mark with 5-6 k tops.

[Type 47]

If you like the flared look and they're free, that's awesome! No clearance issues, and you can stuff in a wide tire.

As for hooking up with the narrow tires, it's not perfect, but a lot better than you'd expect with R-comps. Also, versus a C5 Vette, there's about a half ton less weight to accelerate, which makes an enormous difference when putting the power down.

As I prefer the narrow look, I considered getting some rear flares from Tangerine Racing that are very subtle, not the boxier 914-6 GT look.

If you decide on the LS1 route, feel free to PM me with any questions. I have a ton of build photos. Funny, one of the most challenging things on the LS1 was relocating the oil pressure sender...as you have to flip the intake manifold around 180 degrees, it doesn't clear the manifold. I used a series of 1/4" brass NPT fittings to get it to clear both the throttle linkage and manifold. Most everything else was pretty straightforward.

--Doug

Doug,

Thanks for the info...I do like the narrow look, but like the flares too and with no additional charge I'm leaning that way.

I will most likely need to PM you with some questions in order to make a decision.

Cost is the big issue...can you do it without a Renagade kit?

[Type 47]

Do the LS. Its not 15 k! Not even close!Mittle is closer to the mark with 5-6 k tops.

here is what I'm budgeting...tell me what I don't need. (besides the under dash heater/ac)

LS conversion kit $ 2,600
cooling system $ 995
LS/914 fuel injection harness $ 450
computer programing $ 390
fuel regulator/filter/return $ 245
coolant temp sending unit $ 25
oil pressure sending unit $ 45
oil pressure sending unit adapter $ 35
transaxle mounts $ 185
radiator hose kit $ 120
billet battery tray $ 135
front used 911 suspension $ 1,200
convert rear rotors/hubs to 5 lug $ 295
200 # rear springs $ 180
Bilstein rear sport shocks $ 320
high performance axle kits $ 699
front valance $ 195
rebuilt 901 transaxle, high 4 gears $ 2,450
LS throttle cable kit $ 169
starter? $ 239
under dash heater/ac $ 399
polygraphite control arm bushings $ 85
custom sport seats $ 898
custom VDO gauges $ -
brake upgrade, calipers/rotors, lines, pads $ 2,495
$ 14,849

[Type 47]

opps, too click happy

[mittelmotor]

Do the LS. Its not 15 k! Not even close!Mittle is closer to the mark with 5-6 k tops.

here is what I'm budgeting...tell me what I don't need. (besides the under dash heater/ac)

LS conversion kit $ 2,600
cooling system $ 995
LS/914 fuel injection harness $ 450
computer programing $ 390
fuel regulator/filter/return $ 245
coolant temp sending unit $ 25
oil pressure sending unit $ 45
oil pressure sending unit adapter $ 35
transaxle mounts $ 185
radiator hose kit $ 120
billet battery tray $ 135
front used 911 suspension $ 1,200
convert rear rotors/hubs to 5 lug $ 295
200 # rear springs $ 180
Bilstein rear sport shocks $ 320
high performance axle kits $ 699
front valance $ 195
rebuilt 901 transaxle, high 4 gears $ 2,450
LS throttle cable kit $ 169
starter? $ 239
under dash heater/ac $ 399
polygraphite control arm bushings $ 85
custom sport seats $ 898
custom VDO gauges $ -
brake upgrade, calipers/rotors, lines, pads $ 2,495
$ 14,849

That's a pretty comprehensive list! Depending on the size of your front cooling opening, you probably don't need the Renegade front spoiler. I'd pass on the billet battery tray...much easier to keep battery in the stock location.

I ran two extra wires up to the front of the car...big 10-gauge wire for the cooling fans (direct to battery, as fans are thermostatically controlled), and a 14-gauge wire for the fuel pump. Amp draw for the fans on start-up can be just over 40 amps, so I wired two 30-amp fuses in parallel for 60 amps of capacity. You'll probably want an additional relay for the electric water pump, triggered off the fuel pump signal wire.

Go with stainless fuel lines (see vendors section). I think Renegade's fuel filter/ regulator is overpriced...it's actually a C5 Corvette Z06 piece you can find online, with Dornan barbed fitings that press on and lock.

911 motor mounts make great 914 trans mounts, but you need to elongate the mounting holes a little with a rat-tail file.

It's a big bill for everything, but you don't need everything at once. Things like the seats can be purchased later. Stock gearing works fine for around town, but you'll want taller gears if much freeway driving is anticipated.

It's possible to do it without the Renegade kit, but you'd probably have to pay about as much, and have more headaches as well!

Good luck!

[ottox914]

I like the narrow body "sleeper" style- my turbo 914 looks like a mild update and nothing crazy. That said, with the LS you'll NEED the tire.

Go B I G. Do it once and do it right.

[Cracker]

Let me help you save money and time. When you realize this is the best choice and feel compelled...send me a check for $250. It will be the best $250 you spend in what it saves you.

I have built a comprehensive Renegade conversion (525hp LS2, 930 trans, 930 brakes, etc., etc.) and while their system was great I wouldn't do it again (w/ a 914). The car was awesome but I can't get 500 hours of my life back...I went a little over the top.

You simply selected every option from Renegade of which at least half are not necessary. You will blow up the 901 trans (trust me on this) and then, and then, and then - you get my point?

Stop the bleeding NOW...if you are concerned about blowing the bank account, you can't afford to do it. This is absolutely sicking but I spent a little over 60k - builds can take on a life of their own.

PM me for my address...it will be the best $250 you spend (I think I'm repeating myself).

PS: I blew away 930's, 911 turbo's, Z06's - it wasn't worth it.

Tony/Cracker

[Type 47]

Let me help you save money and time. When you realize this is the best choice and feel compelled...send me a check for $250. It will be the best $250 you spend in what it saves you.

I have built a comprehensive Renegade conversion (525hp LS2, 930 trans, 930 brakes, etc., etc.) and while their system was great I wouldn't do it again (w/ a 914). The car was awesome but I can't get 500 hours of my life back...I went a little over the top.

You simply selected every option from Renegade of which at least half are not necessary. You will blow up the 901 trans (trust me on this) and then, and then, and then - you get my point?

Stop the bleeding NOW...if you are concerned about blowing the bank account, you can't afford to do it. This is absolutely sicking but I spent a little over 60k - builds can take on a life of their own.

PM me for my address...it will be the best $250 you spend (I think I'm repeating myself).

PS: I blew away 930's, 911 turbo's, Z06's - it wasn't worth it.

Tony/Cracker

Tony,

I think I just had a come to Jesus moment.

[Cracker]

Good. Now print this thread and stick it in your wallet (right behind your credit cards (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) and every time you think of spending $$$ - read it!

Having said all this...I decided I needed a "less fuss" track day vehicle that can be street driven and still blow most cars away on track days. I have built a "track oriented" C5 FRC that is super reliable, runs cool (210 h2o for 20 minute sessions), trans/diff coolers, big brakes, accusump, 480 rwhp (for real!), etc. This was a better vehicle for my intended all around use.

I believe I see a "vette" in your profile picture. Decide what you want to do - just don't make a major mistake doing it and keep your eyes wide open!

Tony/Cracker

[/quote]
Tony,

I think I just had a come to Jesus moment.
[/quote]

[Type 47]

.

Good. Now print this thread and stick it in your wallet (right behind your credit cards (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) and every time you think of spending $$$ - read it!

Having said all this...I decided I needed a "less fuss" track day vehicle that can be street driven and still blow most cars away on track days. I have built a "track oriented" C5 FRC that is super reliable, runs cool (210 h2o for 20 minute sessions), trans/diff coolers, big brakes, accusump, 480 rwhp (for real!), etc. This was a better vehicle for my intended all around use.

I believe I see a "vette" in your profile picture. Decide what you want to do - just don't make a major mistake doing it and keep your eyes wide open!

Tony/Cracker

Yes, I have a C6 Z06 that I do about 4 track events/year with. it has a little tuning but I've not had it on the dyno...probably a tick under 460 rwhp. I have a StopTech BBK on the front with Hawk DTC 70's and R comp tires

[Mike Bellis]

I think your price list is for premium equipment. A radiator will not cost $995 unless you buy one from Renegade. If you can fabricate a little, you can get a good aluminum radiator from the web for less than $200 and build a sheet metal shroud for less than $100. a savings of $700.

In fact, you can get everything on your list much cheaper. You just need to shop around. I would not pay $2400 to rebuild a 901. I would have Dr. Evil build it for much less... I think it would be possible to cut your $14k budget in half (almost) if you are resourceful.

BTW, you don't need a 5 lug for an LS swap. My first V8 was a narrow body 4 lug. That car was so much fun to drive!

[Type 47]

I think your price list is for premium equipment. A radiator will not cost $995 unless you buy one from Renegade. If you can fabricate a little, you can get a good aluminum radiator from the web for less than $200 and build a sheet metal shroud for less than $100. a savings of $700.

In fact, you can get everything on your list much cheaper. You just need to shop around. I would not pay $2400 to rebuild a 901. I would have Dr. Evil build it for much less... I think it would be possible to cut your $14k budget in half (almost) if you are resourceful.

BTW, you don't need a 5 lug for an LS swap. My first V8 was a narrow body 4 lug. That car was so much fun to drive!

Good news that there are other sources for what you would need. your point regarding the radiator is well taken and there are other things such as brakes, wheels, 5 lug, and the 901 that can be sourced versus bought off the shelf.

I think I would need the big brakes, for sure, but with some fab and engineering maybe that could be done more cost effectively too. I do have a set of Z06 calipers just sitting in a box.

[mittelmotor]

I agree with Tony on some points. I think that a 500-plus-bhp V-8 paired with a 901 is asking for trouble (especially factoring in track use), but if you want a 300-bhp street driver with magical torque on demand, the LS1/901 is very viable. Your approach to doing the chassis first is spot on; that'll give you plenty of time to mull over the powertrain options.

I had a stock 914 2.0 about 12 years ago, and although I loved it dearly, ended up selling it--got tired of being out-dragged by soccer moms in minivans (truth be told, there's some pretty quick minivans out there, and your garden-variety V-6 Accord these days has 271 bhp). So it's nice to keep up with these vehicles without really trying, and dust them at will if the mood strikes.

I sold my C6 Vette to finance the 914 LS1, and it's the best decision I've ever made. Vette was too bulky & steering too numb for my tastes; handled quite nicely with 265/305 Potenza RE-11s and some decent negative camber (-2.5 degrees up front). But I really missed the agility and uniqueness of the 914, and now I have the best of both worlds. As a bonus, I now don't have to mess with the fussy dogleg 1-2 shift, as 2nd gear works beautifully as 1st gear with the V-8.

Another aspect of V-8 fun is the element of surprise, provided you stay with the narrow body...mine's muffled down, has a single exhaust tip in the stock location (and a hidden dump pipe behind the valance for a dual setup) and retains the "2.0" badging. My front air intake is really not all that noticeable, as it's tucked in between the bumper tits. Other benefits: no more 3000-mile valve adjustments, better access to just about every component of the engine, easy parts availability, and the reliability/driveability of modern fuel injection.

I don't need to outrun 930s, but I do like to amaze/berate an Audi TT or BMW M3 once in a while! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[Cracker]

Just for clarity sake...my trans blew 4th gear with a bone stock engine (400/400). I did not "drop" the clutch; didn't have to since you could just press the throttle to break the tires lose. This happened after 2200 miles of street driving.

My decision to step up to a 930 box allowed me to massage the engine for more power. Although I really like the GT/Flared look...I think I'd stick to the narrow body if I could "re-do" my build. The "sleeper" component was always fun...so was running 11" rears with 315's! There was no comparison in what handled better - narrow body all day long!

Regarding your other thread where "members" were offering values of stock vs. LS powered cars I'd have to greatly disagree with the advice. A well done LS car will always be worth well more than a clean stock car. It's the market, very few enthusiasts want a stuck-in-the-sand 2.0/4 that costs allot. For the record my car sold in the 40's. I own a 914/6 right now with a 911S 2.7 (I've driven original 2.0 that are far worse) - it is pathetic as a driver compared to anything with 400 ft lbs of tq. - absolutely incomparable. Value is all about the quality of the components and execution...don't be duped! Of course, I don't think you should really do it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)