1971 Gold Metallic Project, The Turbo 1.7 Options

[monkeyboy]

I'd like to see how quickly it builds boost while driving.

[r_towle]

any plans to dyno this setup to see what you can reliably make for bolt on power?

Yeah. Supposedly there is a dyno shop in Napa. Just need a few hours free to go search it out. I think it's tuned well enough to see.

Wally on STF got near 400HP with a 2.0 liter motor...
Then he built a bigger motor.
Go look for that thread when you have time...its a great learning experience.

I bet you can get into the 150hp range with the 1.7 if you are tuned right.

It sure would be cool to see, and I suspect if you get it all canned, and simple, you will get at least a few clients for it.

The old 1.7 is the tank motor...little head sealing issues.

Rich

[r_towle]

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=115287

[McMark]

I'll have to read that thread again. I know I read it before. I think my biggest issue is the static compression ratio of my engine. SOMETHING is holding me back, but I can't figure out what... yet. I might try an octane booster (as suggested to me in a PM).

I also need to go over the basics now that I have 1000 miles on it. Adjust the valves, change the oil, check bolts, etc.

[r_towle]

SOMETHING is holding me back,

You don't think the 90 degree exhaust port might have something to do with it?

Rich

[Mike Bellis]

You really need to consider a methanol system. It will raise your effective octane level, Stop your pinging, cool your intake air temp and make you more HP!!! Oh, and it will prevent you from melting a piston!

I run a progressive system that increases fluid pressure with boost. 20psi=10%, 30psi=100%. You would only need a small single injector that could be mounted anywhere.

On my system (2 gallon), I run a single 330cc injector before the throttle body. This size is good for 350hp @ 7000rpm. You would need half that size and a much smaller tank. The injector mounts to a 1/8NPT bung and they have "add a bung" that can be mounted to silicone couplers. I also have a level switch that alerts the gauge when I run low.

You can also make your own mix with denatured alcohol and water. Or, you can buy pre mixed juice. Chemically they are almost identical. I can get 4 gallons of "Boost Juice" on ebay for ~$50 or a gallon of Denatured at home depot for $15. It is a simple 50/50 mix. I am also running a Root Beer aroma in the meth. I can smell it every time it kicks in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Now I realize you are trying to tune the detonation out, but if the static compression is the problem, you may not be able to. The methanol will cure this and have added benefits. Super simple install too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://www.coolingmist.com/
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Wat.../c28/index.html

[balljoint]

I vote for the root beer injection. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[r_towle]

Use real beer, some home brew.

A beer cooled turbo 914 would be classic

[McMark]

Your advice certainly isn't falling on deaf ears Mike. I guess I just want to do some more trial and error learning before I step into a new system. I will look at the MicroSquirt's ability to control the Meth Injection.

[McMark]

Just had a brain wave. I installed a new CHT last week and found that the stock unit maxes out (mine reads 215 degrees max). I bet the stock intake sensor is the same way. I haven't seen over 122 degrees on the intake air temp sensor. I think tomorrow I'll gut a stock IAT and stuff a new thermistor inside and try and get some real intake temps.

[McMark]

Looked up the compressor map for the K03 and overlaid flow calculations at my current 5psi (yellow) and at 12psi (blue). At my current boost, I'm missing the most efficient part of the map.

I wonder if I could be inducing extra heat in the intake charge because I'm not in the best area. Could this setup run better on more boost? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

You need to know your actual air temp. I'm sure you're leaving hp on the table. GM sensors are cheap and pretty accurate.

You also may have too much heat soak in the intercooler to be effective. Do you have pics of the mounting?

Air to water intercoolers are 7X more efficient. Maybe you could incorporate one into your system. I have an extra pump I'll give you if you go that route.

[edwin]

How are you tuning effectively if you don't know engine size
I've only ever done ve on a haltech which needs engine size to calculate injector time
Just curious
Edwin

[McMark]

How are you tuning effectively if you don't know engine size

Tuning by mixture and butt-dyno. What does engine size have to do with it? I can see how it would be immensely helpful, but certainly not necessary.

GM sensors are cheap and pretty accurate.

Waiting for the epoxy to dry on my 'new' stock IAT sensor. This thermistor goes up to 257F. I could get a GM sensor, but this one is Original yet Custom. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[edwin]

If you are just using injection time then engine size doesn't matter but if using ve tables I thought the computer compares to engine size and injector size
As I say I've not used a mega squirt so just trying to learn

[McMark]

You're right, but only as far as getting the engine started. MegaSquirt will develop a BASIC VE table for you based on engine size and injector size. But once that calculation is done and you start actually tuning the engine based on WBO2 readings engine size and injector size become irrelevant. You just watch your WBO2 readings and add fuel where it's lean and remove fuel where it's rich.

[McMark]

Well, the new IAT had pretty much the same numbers. I little higher, but who knows how close this calibration is and how close the other's calibration was. Peak IAT was 138 degrees according to this sensor.

I don't think temperature is my problem.

[McMark]

Use a dynamic compression ratio calculator.

"Your dynamic boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of 5 PSI is 10.52 :1."

I ran the same with 12PSI and it came to 14.25:1. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

With the WebCam 119 cam it's 9.85 @ 5psi and 13.35 @ 12psi.

I think it's time to listen to Mike and try some water injection. Otherwise, I may have found the limit of a stock turbo'd setup. Which really isn't too shabby. But since this is a learning project, gotta keep going.

Also, a cam swap would allow more boost.

[montoya 73 2.0]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif) Noted.

[Mike Bellis]

138° is too high for me. I like mine 120° or lower. You also have additional heat in the intake runners due to conduction from the head. And the runners are steel and don't dissipate heat well.

I don't have any real numbers on intake temp reduction with methanol BUT... When the injector kicks on, my exhaust temps, (EGT 8" after turbo) drop 200° instantly and continue to drop as long as the system is running. I have witnessed the temp going from 1400° to 800° in a matter of seconds. All due to the combustion temps dropping.

Do you have phenolic spacers on the intake runners? This also helped drop intake temps on mine.

You might also try an even colder plug. Keep stepping down temp until the plugs foul, then go back to the next hotter one.