Rear brakes and e-brake... Options

[Steve]

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Wes did all that work on my trailing arms and would not take any money for it, just lunch at Sharkey's. People like him make me try harder to be more positive and always do what is right!!

[Eric_Shea]

Here's my take; many think I'm a big brake hater, which I'm not. I simply don't think enormous brakes are needed on a 914. It's a tiny lightweight car and an S-Caliper or a 908 caliper is just fine. That's what brings my car to a halt and nearly every single 914 in HSR series racing. I kid you not, if you're get a chance to see Frank Beck of Phoenix drive his 914 at speed you will get tears in your eyes.

My concerns usually are twofold:

1. A mis-engineered system. Big brakes up front and nothing in the rear or worse, big brakes in the rear and not much up front (the old "put and early 914 front caliper on the rear" trick). The ideal factory balance with fancy calculations and all comes to about 1.6:1 front to rear... regardless of how big you want to go.

2. People ditching the pressure regulator on street cars. It's the first anti-lock brake device and it belongs in you car.

So... if you want to put 930 or 996 calipers on your 914, feel free. You will have amazing brakes. They may be difficult to modulate at first but you should be able to get use to that. That's when Chris' system pays off. It is the most "stout" of all 911 e brake solutions and as mentioned by the previous poster, it should handle heavy duty handbrake use. If you read Vic Elford's Performance driving handbook, he uses the handbrake to bust the back-end loose in corners when rally driving. Chris's solution is the only one I would trust to do that as he has a very strong piece of metal welded to the arms for the shoes to pivot on.

Nice balanced early system? Use 911 calipers and struts up front with 914-6 calipers in the rear.

Nice balanced big-big brake system (930 front and rear as an example... Remember 1.6:1 and a good "system" approach) - the CFR kit is the only way I would go to get a handbrake.

[Jeff Hail]

Here's my take; many think I'm a big brake hater, which I'm not. I simply don't think enormous brakes are needed on a 914. It's a tiny lightweight car and an S-Caliper or a 908 caliper is just fine. That's what brings my car to a halt and nearly every single 914 in HSR series racing. I kid you not, if you're get a chance to see Frank Beck of Phoenix drive his 914 at speed you will get tears in your eyes.

My concerns usually are twofold:

1. A mis-engineered system. Big brakes up front and nothing in the rear or worse, big brakes in the rear and not much up front (the old "put and early 914 front caliper on the rear" trick). The ideal factory balance with fancy calculations and all comes to about 1.6:1 front to rear... regardless I how big you want to go.

2. People ditching the pressure regulator on street cars. It's the first anti-lock brake device and it belongs in you car.

So... if you want to put 930 or 996 calipers on your 914, feel free. You will have amazing brakes. They may be difficult to modulate at first but you should be able to get use to that. That's when Chris' system pays off. It is the most "stout" of all 911 e brake solutions and as mentioned by the pervious poster, it should handle heavy duty handbrake use. If you read Vic Elfords Performance driving handbook, he uses the handbrake to bust the backend loose in corners when rally driving. Chris's solution is the only one I would trust to do that as he has a very strong piece of metal welded to the arms for the shoes to pivot on.

Nice balanced early system? Use 911 calipers and struts up front with 914-6 calipers in the rear.

Nice balanced big-big brake system (930 front and rear as an example... Remember 1.6:1 and a good "stysem" approach) - the CFR kit is the only way I would go to get a handbrake.

Going back to the 11 parking brake Eric, did you ever weld the rotation limiting 40mm bracket on the arms or did you leave them on the backing plates? Reason I ask is longevity. Recently inspected a 14 with 11 parking brakes and noticed the backing plates were cracked from fatigue where the owner welded the 40mm limiter to the backing plate. Thinking about it as long as it is used as a parking brake not a major issue as the shoe's won't twist inside the rotor drum -BUT if in an emergency situation required them to be used as a stopping brake they would well you know....

[Eric_Shea]

I decided to go with the stock solution and sold those. The way I did it would only work as a parking brake. Not good for an emergency brake solution. Again, that's exactly why the CFR solution is best for those who want big brakes beyond the 914-6 and S/A-Caliper solution.

The last customer 911 solution we did utilized the CRF system. Any future ones will as well.

[Jeff Hail]

I decided to go with the stock solution and sold those. The way I did it would only work as a parking brake. Not good for an emergency brake solution. Again, that's exactly why the CFR solution is best for those who want big brakes beyond the 914-6 and S/A-Caliper solution.

The last customer 911 solution we did utilized the CRF system. Any future ones will as well.

Thanks Eric

[Steve]

I am also running stock Boxster brakes up front. All the caliper adapters came from Rich Johnson. I am using a T instead of the stock proportioning valve.
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I am also using a 19mm master cylinder. I am quite happy with the brakes.
I have driven the car in drivers training courses and in multiple auto-crosses and if I slam my foot on the brakes the fronts will eventually lock up first. I have never had the rears lock up (so far)...

[ChrisFoley]

...
I simply don't think enormous brakes are needed on a 914. It's a tiny lightweight car ...

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My race car still has stock 914-4 rears.
With my bias control I can still adjust it so the rears lock up first (not that I would want it that way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) ).
Thats with slicks more than 10" wide.

[chad newton]

PMB sells a 914-6 rear brake replica in aluminum that will bolt right on for $800
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item...676/9712726.htm

Will they bolt on vented rotor though?

[Eric_Shea]

Read post #8 in this thread. (or post #22... or post #23)

[chad newton]

Read post #8 in this thread. (or post #22... or post #23)

I missed that. I had no idea the gt's ran vented rotors. Cool.

[TurboWalt]

I currently have the Renegade "Big Red" caliper setup on my car. I don't know what the specs of the rear caliper are. I presently don't have a handbrake. I will want one when my car hits the street. Is my best bet at this point to go the 911 route (Tangerine)? Should I use the 914/6 GT calipers on the rear, would I lose the proper balance mentioned by Eric? Does anyone have any experience with the kit I'm using, is it properly balanced?

Thanks, Walt

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.renegadehybrids.com-11463-1376914540.1.jpg)

[Eric_Shea]

I currently have the Renegade "Big Red" caliper setup on my car. I don't know what the specs of the rear caliper are. I presently don't have a handbrake. I will want one when my car hits the street. Is my best bet at this point to go the 911 route (Tangerine)? Should I use the 914/6 GT calipers on the rear, would I lose the proper balance mentioned by Eric? Does anyone have any experience with the kit I'm using, is it properly balanced?

Thanks, Walt

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.renegadehybrids.com-11463-1376914540.1.jpg)

You be loosing a lot of rear brake. Go with the CFR kit and I have a set of 911 handbrake assemblies.

[ChrisFoley]

I have some SC brake tophats available. They fit over my aluminum bearing retainers, as opposed to early tophats going under the retainers.
I don't think the tophats alone are suitable as bearing retainers.
The rest of the 911 parking brake parts are the same IIRC.
The trailing arms need some relieving in the corners.
The tophats need the lips ground down and the bolt holes ovalled.

[worn]

I decided to go with the stock solution and sold those. The way I did it would only work as a parking brake. Not good for an emergency brake solution. Again, that's exactly why the CFR solution is best for those who want big brakes beyond the 914-6 and S/A-Caliper solution.

The last customer 911 solution we did utilized the CRF system. Any future ones will as well.

I can't tell from the web site, but does the CFR system accomplish the attachment to the trailing arm? I am collecting parts but can't quite picture it - seems like something has to hold still for the brake shoes to work. And it ought to be attached to something solid. I know you have been over this before.

[Jeff Hail]

Shave the shiny areas until the hat/ backing plate sits flat on the bearing housing.

I did not have to oval the holes -they were perfect.

Makeshift bearing retainer for visual puposes.

A plug for Foley.. oh yeah I have to order that tube cable gizmo!

[jaxdream]

I decided to go with the stock solution and sold those. The way I did it would only work as a parking brake. Not good for an emergency brake solution. Again, that's exactly why the CFR solution is best for those who want big brakes beyond the 914-6 and S/A-Caliper solution.

The last customer 911 solution we did utilized the CRF system. Any future ones will as well.

I can't tell from the web site, but does the CFR system accomplish the attachment to the trailing arm? I am collecting parts but can't quite picture it - seems like something has to hold still for the brake shoes to work. And it ought to be attached to something solid. I know you have been over this before.

You will have to fashion a 40mm or so bracket welded to the arm , this is what anchors the shoes on the 911 arms , instead of at the top like 911 , do it at the bottom where most put it for the 914 arm . Good Luck .

Jack

[Jeff Hail]

First pic to give an idea what the 11 arm looks like with the 40mm anti-rotation block.

Second pic is one of Wes's mods with the inverted hat.

[ChrisFoley]

You will have to fashion a 40mm or so bracket welded to the arm ,

comes with my kit

[brant]

Now I'm curious eric.

What is the front to rear ratio of aluminum calipers front/ early 914 fronts moved to the rear. ?

I know which pads I wear out first (2 to 1).
But am still curious.

[DBCooper]

I haven't been to your site in a while, Chris, and it's impressive. You've added a LOT of stuff, and it's all cool. Well done, I hope you do well with it.

I'd like to get more info about the e-brake kit. There are photos, but it's hard to see anything more than the cables and tubes. You say the kit includes a bracket? Is it possible to get more details? Is there something more on the site somewhere?