Emission free 914, Electric 914 Options

[ThePaintedMan]

Hydrocarbons and every other compound, molecule and element are derived from the same thing that comprises most of the Sun's mass - hydrogen. Technically everything is "solar powered", but more correctly, "hydrogen powered". But then again, energy and mass are interchangeable, so this argument is totally centered around each person's temporal reference.

It takes energy/matter to be able to harvest/transform more energy, to accomplish work. That's a fact - Newton was a smart guy.

Converting a 914 to electric is a great idea - if those batteries, electric motors, etc lifetimes outlast the amount of fossil which would be spent to achieve an equivalent amount of miles that the car is driven while under battery power. Which likely isn't enough to make up for that tradeoff.

[r3dplanet]

I think you might be want to double check your ideas.

There are certainly hydrocarbons and organic carbon compounds spread throughout the universe. The Horse Head nebula, Jupiter, Saturn, Titan, etc. But that doesn't mean that they were all created by living creatures like dinosaurs. It just happens that hydrocarbons are somewhat messy and relatively easy to produce if conditions are correct. If you think if nebulae as huge chemical factories (they are), then it follows suit. Hydrocarbons are just random chains of hydrogen and carbon and don't even have to have a uniform structure. All that says is that they can be naturally occurring if the right conditions are met. On Earth, the petroleum is made from hydrocarbons made of compressed plant and animal life. Not just dinosaurs, but hundreds of millions of years of decayed plants, algae, insects, forests, microscopic life, ocean life, fish, plankton, cephalopods, trilobites, etc. It also just so happens that the period of time of most petroleum generation goes hand in hand with the decay timing of the Cambrian explosion. Since life on Earth began shortly after its forming, there's obviously great propensity for hydrocarbons to produce naturally here. The Earth never had oceans of methane like on Titan. So all it goes to show is that hydrocarbons are produced all over the damn place with a variety of different beginnings. Other heavy elements like gold or uranium are certainly not geologically produced, but rather in the fusion crucibles of the stars. But simple molecule chains like hydrocarbons don't need interstellar fusion to create them.

Just out of curiosity, where is it that you think Earth's petroleum came from?

"Crude oil originates from ancient fossilized organic materials,

Wikipedia is wrong.

Tell me then where did all the hydrocarbons (oceans of methane & ethane) come from on Titan (moon of Saturn)?

I suppose from all of the dinosaurs that used to roam Titan?
Organic compounds can be found interstellar nebulae - Dinosaurs?

Look at it another way. Which scenario is more likely:

1 - Life spontaneously generates out of constituent elements forming organic chemistry, THEN decomposes to form "Fossil Fuels"
OR
2 - "Fossil fuels" exist for a LONG time before life spontaneously generates out of a rich broth of complex organic chemicals

I am betting on #2 (and the evidence supports it)

[Chris H.]

Ummmm....I like how the charger is behind the front license plate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

[stugray]

Just out of curiosity, where is it that you think Earth's petroleum came from?

Same place as Titan's hydrocarbons.
Dont know but its not (just) 'Dinosaurs', far more likely to have been plentiful in the proto-solar disk that formed our solar system.
My guess is that all planets in our solar system have at least "some" petroleum deposits.

Returning thread to OP now.

[r3dplanet]

Hell yes. I'd love to do an electric 914. My neighbor Richard did a beautiful job doing an electric conversion on his baby blue Fastback. Complete with solar panels on his roof to charge it. It's glorious, as is this 914. The battery technology is getting better all the time and it will have to do until Mr. Fusion generators finally arrive. This 914 is just beautifully done.

[yeahmag]

What I've always found fascinating about using electric motors for propulsion is that you can keep with or stay ahead of trends for power. Batteries get better? Put in new batteries? Solar panels get cheap? Add solar to your house/work. California manages to get a huge solar plant working? Bonus! Do nothing!

Point being you can divest your energy source from your car. Granted right now it's expensive as hell and the ROI is low for most folks, but look at some of the leases available right now for the Ford Focus EV, Fiat 500 EV, and the Nissan Leaf. It's kinda insane how cheap they are! I think the only viable car for a primary vehicle that hit's all my check boxes is the Chevy Volt, but for a second car any of the aforementioned rides would really be neat.

[r_towle]

I have decided that I want to run my car on hydrocarbons
From Titan.

[KELTY360]

I have decided that I want to run my car on hydrocarbons
From Titan.

I think you can arrange unlimited 'in-flight' refueling if you tap into a chonosynclasticinfundibulum.

[KELTY360]

I have decided that I want to run my car on hydrocarbons
From Titan.

I think you can arrange unlimited 'in-flight' refueling if you tap into a chonosynclasticinfundibulum.

[Elliot Cannon]

"Crude oil originates from ancient fossilized organic materials,

Wikipedia is wrong.

Tell me then where did all the hydrocarbons (oceans of methane & ethane) come from on Titan (moon of Saturn)?

I suppose from all of the dinosaurs that used to roam Titan?
Organic compounds can be found interstellar nebulae - Dinosaurs?

Look at it another way. Which scenario is more likely:

1 - Life spontaneously generates out of constituent elements forming organic chemistry, THEN decomposes to form "Fossil Fuels"
OR
2 - "Fossil fuels" exist for a LONG time before life spontaneously generates out of a rich broth of complex organic chemicals

I am betting on #2 (and the evidence supports it)

The methane and ethane on Titan came from the organic life forms that used to live there 250,000,000 years ago. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

I remember when the Prius first came out.
A study was done for "cradle to grave" and the impact to the environment of manufacture, operation, and recycling.
They compared a Prius to a Hummer H2.

Guess which one was more "environmentally friendly"?

Now that the NiCad battery packs are essentially extinct, it is different......

Hmmm. A study was done. I wonder who financed that study? Who benefits most from the results of that study? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

They just recently flew an solar powered airplane coast to coast and soon will try to circumnavigate with it. They are just scratching the surface with solar power. How would you like to charge you electric car with solar power? How do you think the oil companies feel about that?

[flipb]

I've considered someday converting my 914 to an EV. It always seemed so expensive... til I look back and see what I've spent in 4 years of ownership. Of course, now that I've invested quite a bit in the old internal combustion bits, so I'll want to drive it as-is.

I'd fill the engine compartment with batteries, perhaps a few more in the front trunk, and put a 75hp hub-mounted motor in each rear wheel. 150RWHP with instantaneous torque.

[stugray]

I wish that Tesla sold it's powertrains as standalone units......

[r3dplanet]

I'd be happy with the whole Tesla!

I'm one of the applicants for the Mars-One project. If I advance and make friends with Elon Musk, I'll see what I can swing for you. Seriously. Unless I'm on Mars.

Where are we with hydrogen fuel cells anyway? Oh right. All of the damn hydrogen is on Jupiter. Earth is just getting more pedestrian all the time...

I wish that Tesla sold it's powertrains as standalone units......

[stugray]

If I advance and make friends with Elon Musk, I'll see what I can swing for you.

I sat and talked with Elon Musk for an hour for a job interview.
Very intelligent guy. I have worked on a few of the spacecraft currently (or past) exploring Mars. Would have worked on the Dragon Avionics, but declined the offer.

I got to see the Model S hiding in the back of the SpaceX plant before the design was released to the public.

[PThompson509]

Well, I've pestered this forum for a while with my electric 914. Tried a couple of different configurations, during this time, too. *IF* I were to start with the current configuration, I'd have added in roughly $20k worth of parts. Of course, I'm not paying for the electricity, since I have solar panels and can charge at work for free, so the payoff will happen in oh... (cough) mumble (cough) years.

To be honest, there is no way to compete with even the lame Leaf costwise. Of course, our cars are much more handsome than the Leaf and Pius, but that's not saying much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I've got a box of batteries balanced over the motor (attached to the standard 914 transmission), and another box of batteries squeezed in where the gas tank used to be, and another box in the front trunk. All of the electronics are stuffed into the rear trunk.

Now that I know what to do, I'd reserve half the rear trunk for the electronics, and figure out a deeper box for the engine compartment.

Oh, and get 130Ah batteries.

Oh, and NOT buy a cheap chinese BLDC motor.

[Elliot Cannon]

There is a electric powered 914 in a hangar here at the airport minus batteries. Maybe I can make him an offer? I'd at least like to have a good look at it.

[PThompson509]

There is a electric powered 914 in a hangar here at the airport minus batteries. Maybe I can make him an offer? I'd at least like to have a good look at it.

Why not? If you could find out what motor and controller he has, then we can critique the price and worthiness of the project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The 914 is a great platform for converting to electric - especially when there are two trunks and a huge engine compartment available for use.

[stugray]

r3dplanet,
http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1112944...mill-meteorite/
"This discovery opens the door for further debate about whether the delivery of organic compounds produced in extraterrestrial environments to the early Earth by comets and meteorites might have aided the molecular evolution that preceded the origins of life."

Oil first, life second...., "fossil fuel" third


'Elliot, depends on: If you add batteries, is the system designed and built well? What motor and drive module does it have? How much $$?