Self Sustaining Electric 914, jwalters is back Options

[stugray]

Well, hate to tell you Mr. aerospace engineer, but the accessory pad on the engine in question is rated for 110 inch pounds of torque. -OR- 9.16 foot pounds of torque.

Again, Mr. engineer, you are talking to a person who has maintained, modified, and flown in this aircraft for almost a decade...........just so you know, maybe I have not made this fact glaringly obvious before..

You still have not said one thing relevant to this discussion.
You state that an aircraft power system (that you might have actually touched once) is powerful enough to drive a radar.
What radar, what power level?
There are cars that have radar that tell you if you are going to hit something that draws about a quarter of a watt...
What has that possibly got to do with powering a 914 with the wind?
Even remotely?

A small powerplant can provide a megawatt of electricity over a 1 inch cable.
So I can drive a submarine with a windmill powered by my grandchild blowing on a pinwheel.
See not one single (relevant) unit in that statement, but it must be true....

You have not made one single claim about your design that actually uses physics, units, or even MATH yet you expect us all to believe you "just because"????

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

And I love the part where you can make the claim that I know nothing about "Aerospace Technology" after 20 years in aerospace, but now I am "Mr Engineer". Hey - dont throw stones in glass houses... (or shall I say do not light fires while supported by strawmen?)
The last "vehicle" I was in charge of cost more than 1 Billion dollars....

[skeates]

So looking at the video of this design and re-reading through the posts it seems to me that I've found the one glaring reason this won't work.

It seems that this turbine thing is basically a turbo charger for an electric 914...and I seem to remember something about turbos and 914s...

[skeates]

But seriously can we get Dr. Evil to take the vitals on this thread?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

[stugray]

Ok, lets put this in perspective using some physics.

If you had a air intake of one square meter (3.3 feet by 3.3 feet)
If you had air moving through this intake at 25meter/second ( ~55 Miles per hour).
Air weighs 1.205 kilograms/cubic-meter

The total kinetic energy of of one cubic meter of air at 25 m/s is:
E = 1/2*m*v^2 = 1/2*1.204*25^2 = 376.25 joules

So one cubic meter of air moving at 25 meters per second has a total kinetic energy of 376.25 joules.
so an air stream moving through your intake at 25m/s has a total energy of 25*376.25 joules = 9406.25 joules/second = 9406.25 watts.

9406.25 watts = 12.61 horsepower.

That is the TOTAL amount of energy in the moving air.

So IF:
You have a 3.3 foot by 3.3 foot intake
The car is moving ~55MPH
You slow the exit air to ZERO velocity (not possible or you just made a vacuum behind the car)
Your turbine extracts 100% of the energy from the moving air
Your energy conversion system is 100% efficient
THEN you theoretically can extract 12 horsepower.

In reality you cannot hope to get better than 20% efficiency in the whole system ( and THAT is generous)
for a whopping 2.4 hp.
Now sorry but that is just plain "physics".


The above assumes a stationary car in a wind tunnel for simplicity.
A car moving through stationary air is even less "efficient"
Care to share any of your calculations?

"Mr. Engineer"

[Rand]

...a word of caution Rand

That's the second time you've threatened me. What do you have in mind?

I'm just calling it as I see it. Only this, only here. I don't have anything personal against you.

[jd74914]

Well, hate to tell you Mr. aerospace engineer, but the accessory pad on the engine in question is rated for 110 inch pounds of torque. -OR- 9.16 foot pounds of torque.

You mean you torque the bolts to 9 ft*lbs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[stugray]

You mean you torque the bolts to 9 ft*lbs?

He means that his 20KVA (26.82 hp) genset has to rotate at ~15000 RPM at 9.17 ft-lbs torque.
Still have no idea how that is relevant.

[bandjoey]

The all laughted at Edison. I'm watching and can't wait to see the results. Someone someday will come up with Warp Drive. How bout you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[ruby914]

Elliot,
If we put a 2nd prop in front of the 1st prop on that V-tail... That is, to make the 1st prop go faster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) The faster we went, the faster we would go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Dude, 188,000 MPS here we come. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

This looks pretty cool. I'm ready to invest. Who do I send my life savings to? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Java2570]

I'm not an engineer, I'm just an idiot that likes my 914.....but one thing sticks in my mind, whether
this idea works or not, not many people give development money to projects without seeing the
concept work for real. Start hitting up all those big corporate sponsors. Good luck with your project though!

[mepstein]

word of the day:

attention whore

Label given to any person who craves attention to such an extent that they will do anything to receive it. The type of attention (negative or positive) does not matter.

[mskala]

My design works and it works "right out of the box." Is it wrong for a person who has the experience and training that I possess to be able to design a "thing" so well that it works first time out? Seriously?

wow

Two different things. Yes, it is ridiculous to have a first design and have it
so great that development stops. However, if you are talking about just
doing something slightly different from your years of 'experience and training'
then sure, make your slightly different new gadget; but don't call it 'first
attempt design'.

[Dr Evil]

Hence why I will pay for the various state's Highway patrol for an escort. The other very real factor is having the escort will allow a quick exit and detour around problem areas such a wrecks, construction, etc.

Ok, now this is the part I have a problem with believing. No way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)


On a more serious note, if the OP has no interest (as stated several times) in pandering for money here, is only wishing to share their thoughts and build on a concept, then why is there such vitriol towards him here? What does it matter if he is off of his rocker or not. He is going to try, why not cheer him on? Is it because there is want to be in the front row of the "I told you so" crowd if it fails? Would it not be better to back a brother up even if you think they are a crack pot? He is not hurting anyone, is applying himself in a way that makes him happy, and has been pretty tolerant of the less than courteous comments here. Like putting a diesel in a 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I choose to support your endeavor with well wishes. Good luck, keep up the updates.

[timothy_nd28]

Here's a quick dirty little test you could do to prove or disprove this concept. Figure out what power this device would generate at 50 mph. Now with the car sitting still, back feed that same power into the wind turbine. Essentially it should work backwards and start blowing air. Does the car move at all with this thing shooting air out?

[JRust]

On a more serious note, if the OP has no interest (as stated several times) in pandering for money here, is only wishing to share their thoughts and build on a concept, then why is there such vitriol towards him here? What does it matter if he is off of his rocker or not. He is going to try, why not cheer him on? Is it because there is want to be in the front row of the "I told you so" crowd if it fails? Would it not be better to back a brother up even if you think they are a crack pot? He is not hurting anyone, is applying himself in a way that makes him happy, and has been pretty tolerant of the less than courteous comments here. Like putting a diesel in a 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I choose to support your endeavor with well wishes. Good luck, keep up the updates.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) . If he isn't here asking for money. How is it any different than any other build thread. It's intruiging & I'll be watching the thread. Assuming the rest of the bullshit blasting goes away. How about we move away from disproving it will work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . Wish the guy luck & sit back to watch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[ruby914]

I do agree, we should should be more supportive and less critical of any miscalculations. My car is a petri dish of thoughts. Some worked out better than others. I myself started my 914 project thinking of generating on-board hydrogen.
Reality set in. That Idea moved to the in home natural gas fill stations. That Thought died with the Pickens Plan.
I remember in the OP, "I will accept any help thrown my way!" Help was the key word not throw.
Seems like he has been sailing into the wind from the start. Please forgive my sarcasm.
So, is this a build thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
I suggest you start with a pickup truck. Put the turbine in the back and record real
power generated at what speed. I am still not convinced on little to no drag. Unless you limit your intake within the size of the front bumper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Hence why I will pay for the various state's Highway patrol for an escort. The other very real factor is having the escort will allow a quick exit and detour around problem areas such a wrecks, construction, etc.

Ok, now this is the part I have a problem with believing. No way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)


On a more serious note, if the OP has no interest (as stated several times) in pandering for money here, is only wishing to share their thoughts and build on a concept, then why is there such vitriol towards him here? What does it matter if he is off of his rocker or not. He is going to try, why not cheer him on? Is it because there is want to be in the front row of the "I told you so" crowd if it fails? Would it not be better to back a brother up even if you think they are a crack pot? He is not hurting anyone, is applying himself in a way that makes him happy, and has been pretty tolerant of the less than courteous comments here. Like putting a diesel in a 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I choose to support your endeavor with well wishes. Good luck, keep up the updates.

[Bulldog9]

Funny stuff............. I think a couple of these guys need to get a room.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif) geeze............. Nothing like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) in public huh? really??

Will be interesting to see how this develops. The main issue I have with the perpetual motion idea is the ability (or lack of) to generate and store power quicker than it is consumed. Modern lithium batteries and superconductor technogies makes this far more accessable than in the past i.e you can carge a lithium battery to full in 1 hour and will discharge at a much slower rate.

Bottom line is even if when the vehicle is in motion it can maintain and recharge the batteries, there will need to be a substantial reserve. I imagine given conditions and open highway roads, etc, this might be doable, but the headroom will quickly evaporate in any stop and go traffic or if clear flow of air to turbine is blocked... or....

I'm also guessing this will have to have plug capability in for the initial charge.

OK< I actually just watched the video and read the comments, and I have to say I got quite a laugh..... The killer is this last comment....

The successful completion of this project will allow the gathering of data to be able to manufacturer retrofit units! These retrofit units will be primarily for 18 wheelers and other large over-the-road commercial vehicles. These vehicles currently attain a mileage rate of not better than 3 MPG. With the retrofit unit installed and operating the free energy processed by the Wind Engines will drive high torque electric motors attached to the trucks drive line. These units can quite possible increase a typical 18 wheeler MPG by 200% or better.

All, I'm going to say is OK.................. lol.

[Elliot Cannon]

The all laughted at Edison. I'm watching and can't wait to see the results. Someone someday will come up with Warp Drive. How bout you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Nobody laughed at Edison. He invented stuff. Proved it would work. Patented it. Then announced it and got funding.

[Mike Bellis]

The all laughted at Edison. I'm watching and can't wait to see the results. Someone someday will come up with Warp Drive. How bout you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Nobody laughed at Edison. He invented stuff. Proved it would work. Patented it. Then announced it and got funding.

They laughed at Tesla, Edison's apprentice. Now Edison's stuff is obsolete, except the light bulb. Tesla's stuff is still in use around the world... Tesla, father of Alternating Current...

[Tom]

Tesla was on a different flight plan than most of his generation. Edison was on the ground in comparison in my opinion. They were both great inventors and thinkers. Tesla died alone and ridiculed, but his notes have proved most valuable.
Then there was Floyd "Sparky" Sweet and his VTA. VERY interesting!!! his experiments have been repeated by others including noted physicist Tom Bearden, who some say is a fraud.
Sparky had his life threatened by some strange folks that wanted him to cease his experiments. Magnetics and magnetic fields are a very complex subject and he spent his life learning more about it. He had multiple degrees in magnetics and worked with them for many years. Worth the time to google and read about him.
I say, good luck with your project.
Tom