Purchase price vs. resale price, possibly shooting ourselves in the foot? Options

[neo914-6]

QUOTE

Here is another good one: Say, somebody took up the endeavor to bring a bunch of teeners back to reality--in all different trims and what not---where you could actually "shop" for a teener ready to go. Kinda like all the type 1 outfits all around the country.

I've read about limited production endeavors for classic volvos and BMW 2002s. A great idea for "production line" rebuilding. It would allow a 911 or other car owner with disposable income to buy or order a quality, warrantied, rebuilt example of the 914 to drive or stash in the collection. The market variance in cost or value is the vast labor hours, levels or expertise, and unknown quality of parts. A remanufactured 914 "should" have quality, consistency, and less costly leveraged labor/knowledge, and parts quantity cost savings. Of course the saved costs may go to the manufacturers profit.

We are all on the right track by getting a 914 on the road visible to the public. In time maybe the youth will want to buy something less generic and the elders will exercise their nostalgic purchase. If good examples of 914's are available, market value will rise...

I am starting another project of increasing the presence and adoption of the 914. It will be the Neo914...

Felix

[jd74914]

Sorry to disagree, but you can make money on cars.

There are two ways:

1) Store them for 30 years (I bought my Ford F1 for $20 in 1976, and put about $100 into it to drive it. Now I see some in worse condition than mine selling for $1000's)

2) Buy them for cheap, and put the minimum $ required in them to get them to run, and then sell them right away (I've gotten lots of classics for free and sold for profit) All you have to do is make sure you park them where people can see them and dream. Instant and free advertising (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)


Anyways, if you want to lose the least amount of money, sell it now and forget about it. Don't bother putting any money into it. I should be a labor of love (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[jd74914]

Above was the father's point of view, now the sons:

QUOTE

In time maybe the youth will want to buy something less generic and the elders will exercise their nostalgic purchase. If good examples of 914's are available, market value will rise...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) Thats one of the reasons I bought my 914 for. I'll have an extremely unique car that can outhandle all of my friends.

[Brando]

I see the only ways we can erally increase the value of our cars... would be to sell more "$20k" examples. Time to start (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sawzall-smiley.gif)-ing up the rollers to make nice complete cars.

When I have the money, I would eventually like to find a nice roller, strip it down to chassis, stiffen it up, have the body phosphorous coated (equivalent of galvanizing) and re-painted. Then put a completely rebuilt 2.0L in there with everything refurbished as it could be. Almost brand new. And you know what? For the cost of all of this ($25k-ish?) it would be a bargain compared to buying a new boxster or 997. Now, for a couple thousand dollars more I can install a much larger 6 engine and run with the big boys... but still, that'd be a full and complete restoration. When done, the car would be worth a bit less than my investment. If I played my cards right, I might even be able to make a little profit.

But most of the weight does land on sellers. 914 sellers, don't be afraid to ask for more than $500 on a roller. Hell, 944 rollers (all years) are worth $500. 924 rollers are worth a dimebag (ask me how I know). Just because it's deprecieated by most as a volkswagen doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated like any other Vintage Porsche.

[rick 918-S]

We're our own worse enemy. Every time someone posts a link to an ebay car we trash it so bad no one would by it.

[neo914-6]

QUOTE

don't be afraid to ask for more than $500 on a roller

How many rollers are sold because they started as parts cars? This is a cheaper and time saving alternative than buying parts one by one. How many were sold because the owner found a better car? How many were sold to make space? Rollers serve their purpose and will be cheaply and readily available in the dry salt-free states until supply is significantly reduced by attrition or resurrection.
Felix

[vortrex]

914's are horribly overpriced right now and anyone who argues that either is trying to justify all the $ spent on theirs or is trying to sell one at a profit.

[carambola]

for one day and one day only, i will take away that rusted till the center is touching the ground car that you have and help you clean out your garage.

low hourly wage expected.

[RAR]

Most objects--antiques, furniture, cars, etc. go through a phase where their value is at best questionable. It isn't until "later" that they become worth more. The original Speedster was a budget Porsche when first introduced. Now what's a primo example worth? As others have said, the 914s aren't an investment, they're a hobby.

[Rhodes71/914]

I bought my 914 because:
I like working on cars and love VWs
My wife likes 914's better than split window VW buses
They are fun to drive
For less than $2000 I have a really fun car and it's Porsche

I think it's great that these fun little cars are reasonable to buy. Sure parts are expensive hey it is a Porsche that they haven't made for almost 30 years what do you expect.

If I wanted a real money making investment I would have talked to by stock broker.

I hope to still have this car when my 3 yo is 16 I'm sure my few thousand dollar "investment" will be worth something then.

But mostly it is a fun hobby that I enjoy spending time and money on. I hope they stay reasonable so I can get another cause really it's my wifes car and I'm just getting it ready for her. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Howard]

Pretty basic, but in this free economy (except for oil companies and a few others):

Buyers set the true value of things. If someone is willing to pay $20+ million per year for an athlete to endorse their product, that's the true value. We live in a nice neighborhood, but it's no Beverly Hills, and a 2200 sq ft tract house down the street just sold for $980,000. If someone is willing to pay $20k for a 914, then that's what it's really worth.

In each of these cases none of these things are really worth much until someone writes the check.

[jim912928]

Rick has a very good point. I can tell you that when someone talks about a 911 or a 928 purchase/sale on the rennlist forum (as an example)....those guys don't trash into the ground each and every car like we do scaring off potential buyers. Fair assesments are given then the onslaught of positives about the brand/model are highlighted. I think we take it to the edge at times.

The image to the "just getting into 914's" crowd can sure be skewed by what they read by us!

Now......the passion we talk about our cars at events like MWC and FFC and likewise what I read on the WCC...is so different...whether it is a pristine car or a work-in-progress. I think the intent of this thread was to boost our passion and pride for our cars...as we discuss and asses our "addictions" for this very cool marque..the 914!

[curtis]

QUOTE (vortrex @ Dec 27 2004, 06:53 PM)

914's are horribly overpriced right now and anyone who argues that either is trying to justify all the $ spent on theirs or is trying to sell one at a profit.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/bs.gif)

[Trekkor]

Here's my take.

If it's a good deal to you, buy it.

I found my car for $2200. I'll have $4-6K more into it when the SIX is done.

Could I sell it for $10K? Not important right now.

I will tell you this, someone offered me $6500 for my car in it's current FOUR form a few months back. I politely declined.

I'm looking at a $3k paint job. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Will it be worth $15K as the street/ a-x fun car to a buyer?
Don't care...I'm happy.

I agree about entry level cars however. My car was worth $4k easy when I bought it.

I wanted a driver with no *issues*. Was willing to pay $6.5k to get that.

The orange car shown to us here for $4k could be a screaming deal if it's genuine. If I wanted another one and had the cash I'd schtick in my 2.0 and be happy as the next guy.

When i was 16 I passed on a '71 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum for $1600. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

Try to by one now...

I bought a Baja Bug instead...Air cooled is where it's at. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

So, how much will this crowd pay for the PERFECT 914?

KT

[balthazar]

Someone said we represent only 1% of the total demographic interested in actually buying a 914. Because of this, what we do here and on other boards has no effect on peoples opinions of our cars.(paraphrasing)

I disagree! We here, while only possibly 1%, represent ALL of the knowledge on these cars. People interested in buying a 914 are being FOOLISH, or uninformed, if they don't make a stop here and read the VAST amount of material available.

That being said, it is impossible for us to not affect peoples opinions of cars for sale on E-Bay and else where. Like it or not, people look to us for advice. If we say the car is worth only $900, they take us for our word.

It does not matter, however. Those who think a perfect, rust free roller is worth less than the cost to ship it east will fade away as cheap cars disappear. The downside is that they will be more expensive to get into.

Eventually, our cars will come on par with their german relatives. Most people have never heard of a 914. That is how we can best serve the value, by driving these things everywhere and showing them off to everyone. We need to have long road trips in the summer with 200+ cars. Post pix everywhere. Try and get into the papers, and TV. Basically promote the hell out of them!!!!

Just my .02 "clink,clink" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

[bjorn jacobson]

I think there are some valid points to this argument, I also think someone may have had one beer too many.

One thing to concider at this time is the fact that the Porsche community seems to be keeping an eye on the 914 as the owners banter about values. Both Excellence and 911& Porsche World both have articles out about 914s. The article about the Max Moritz car in particular should win much attention for the 914 communiy. Wether this is preferable or not is up to you. But I do think we are about to see a dramatic change in the value of these cars.

I personally would rather things stayed were they are. I don't intend to sell my car after it's completed, I don't look at it as an investment. I honestly think I'm getting a great deal for the dollar no matter how much money I spend for parts on my car. Sure it would be great to buy these things for a couple of grand and sell them for twenty all day long but it seems a bit unrealistic. I wouldn't want to spend the kind of money a preimpact 911 is going for on a 914.

There are also the people who are huge fans of the Porsche tradition that are not the "wine and cheese" type, since I'm from Wisconsin I like to think of myself as the "beer and cheese" type. But the point I'm trying to make is that there seems to be a lot of people on this board who are really in it for a genuine reason, becaluse they have a passion for these cars. And that is what I think makes Porsche what it is. The little guy who gets a huge thrill out of taking his Porsche out club racin on the weekend, not some big buck schmuck who wants to compensate his dink size with a fast car everyday.

Sorry jwalters but you may want to have a couple cheese curds with your beers, you may be able to handle them a little better.

P.S. What do you think insurance companys will do when these cars are worth big bucks?

[scruz914]

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Dec 27 2004, 07:51 PM)

We're our own worse enemy. Every time someone posts a link to an ebay car we trash it so bad no one would by it.

From what I have seen the EBay cars still sell for high prices even after being trashed on this forum. Maybe no one on the forum would buy, but someone out there is.

[Steve Thacker]

QUOTE (72914S @ Dec 27 2004, 08:56 PM)

The only way to get your investment back is to drive the s*!t out of it ! For me it is the only reason I did it. It`s a fun car and a great hobby. I did not restore it with the thought of a monitary investment but to have a car that not everyone else had. I hope parts cars never go up in price. Can`t think of anything better than finding a free or nearly free car even if there is only a couple of parts I need! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

This is the bottom line and no words have summed it up as nice. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)

The parts car search is the fun part. Finding one to help defer the costs is the icing on the cake. Sort of like finding a nice shiny quarter in the road when we were kids. Of course penny candy was the order of the day back then. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Now it is these little buggers that are taking our candy money. Have fun owning and driving your cars as I do. When people see how much fun you are having driving it, then they also maybe will want one also. Then the attraction comes into play and price can be no object to a potential newbie as myself. Car pricing in conjunction with voodoo supply and demand is just that. Think about some of you who grabbed the bit between your teeth in your early days of buying these cars. Did you really care how much you paid for it? Be honest here folks.... You just wanted it right? And nothing was going to stop you from getting it. From a short four and a half years ago I joined your ranks as a virgin to 914s. As a boot I saw the car and my sensibility went right out the window along with my hard earned cash. I remember seeing posts on the Bird site of owners bashing the dependibility of these cars in so many ways, I wondered if I made a good choice. That isn't something a newbie needs to read fellas.

I thought (at the the time) I could dump this aircooled Edsel and go look at that 55' caddy that needed a priest, a shaman and a banker to resurrect its soul. What do I do ?... I decided that I'm sticking to my guns and finish what I started. So in the future remember that there are people that will throw in the towel before getting started, so think and speak positive of your autos. It will attract aircooled boots like myself to buy and thus bring up the selling prices of your cars. That is the secret and I'm sticking to it.

[jwalters]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Well, I can honestly say this was one sure fire refreshing discussion of our beloved cars.!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)

I want to extend my hand of friendship with all those of you that strived to keep this topic civil and clean and actually read the topics before spouting off with diatribe.

From what I have read it is obvious that the vast majority of us has seen and come to terms how easily we as a group can be our own worst enemy--not to just ourselves, but those others with teeners which are also affected.

It is sooo easy in this world to not give a crap about a particular subject and also not give a crap of the ramifications of said subject which is inflicted upon other fellow human beings. "If it does not affect me......."

This is sooo very good -----everybody--keep mindful of how our actions could / might / will adversly affect others---you never know when you might roll up to that street corner and there is the one you wronged indiscriminately, and he knows it----where would you go from there???

Rock on teeners--hope to meet the vast majority of you in the years to come at the gatherings which willl bring us the spotlight!

Cheers- (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[KaptKaos]

Why I like my 73 1.7

1) I always liked the simplicity of aircooled Porsches. Just seemed "right" to me that a car would be built like that.

2) I always liked the relatively light weight and good handling. A hallmark of earlier Porsches, at the time labeled "Giant Killers" because of their ability to beat cars with much more displacement in races.

3) I do not want or need: power windows, power door locks, power sunroof, air conditioning, GPS, automatic climate control, heated seats, heated mirrors, foglamp washers, power seats with multi-person memory, or any of those other modern conveniences. I prefer my car to be a raw experience.

4) Nothing else looks like it. That's not to say that its pretty, cause its really not, but it is unique. I call it interesting to be polite. When you drive to work, keep an eye out for interesting cars. There are fewer and fewer each day.

5) I really like that my car has no center console, makes it feel very roomy and comfortable inside.

6) Targa top. I hate replacing convertible tops, takes me 4 or 5 times to get them to fit right, and they still really don't. No such issue with the targa and you still get the open motoring experience.

Basically, I fell in love with the speedsters of the 50s. Now I am not that old, but there was something so pure and honest about them, that I really appreciated them. In looking for a classic car with similar attributes, you are very limited in choices. If you like aircooled motors and their unique sounds, open tops, with a decent level of performance, what can you get? Well, you could get a Karmann Ghia, which is a very pretty car, more expensive than a 914 in most cases and has a lower level of performance (stock). Or, you could get a 914 with all of the good stuff a Ghia doesn't have (tach, disc brakes, 5 spd tranny, fuel injection, mid engined, targa top) for less but its not as pretty as a Ghia.

I guess the real bottom line is this: The 914 was not well received in its day. I have most of the articles from R&T and C&D from the time. The Fiat 124 was, by far, more appreciated by those magazines. The fact that 914s are still popular and sought after today is a testament to the marque (ok, 1/2 a marque for you narp folks), and that the cars were really very well engineered and manufactured and that people were able to see past the "short comings" that the car rags of the day sighted and fell in love with them anyway (like me).

Regarless of what we do or say, 914s are becoming rarer, and by that fact alone, more valuable. I do not think that there is much that we can do, other than to love these little cars. Their value will go up, I see no sense in trying to expedite that. Its not something I want to sell, so why should I care?